Author Topic: Buddhist Relics, Rituals, & Offerings  (Read 12204 times)

Offline Rahul

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Re: Buddhist Relics, Rituals, & Offerings
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2017, 03:58:49 am »
What exactly is the point of seeing relics of old masters?
How does that help you get 'enlightened'? Lol
Sounds like a waste of time to me.

Relics serve as a proof that the said master was a real person, and not a myth. One reason why Buddha's disciples decided to divide his relics in 10 portions and enshrine them into stupas as various locations was that the generations to come would see the relics and believe that Buddha was a real person and he existed.

Seeing relics of old masters is a kind of a proof that they existed, and it may inspire the followers to explore more about their life, and maybe eventually pursue the path to enlightenment. Just like an ad of McDonald will inspire several to try their food, just like an ad of iPhone will make people want to know more or see it or buy one...

Offline IdleChater

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Re: Buddhist Relics, Rituals, & Offerings
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2017, 03:18:25 pm »
What exactly is the point of seeing relics of old masters?

Practice aids.

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How does that help you get 'enlightened'? Lol

By aiding your practice.

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Sounds like a waste of time to me.

Well there won't be any opportunities to waste time for the forseeable future.  The Heart Shrine tour mentioned ealier in the thread ceased touring a couple years ago.

I went to view that collection, twice.  It was great. The room had such an excellent vibe.  It was an excellent container for practice.

On a mundane level, it's an interesting exhibit of Buddhist history.  The relics included the Buddha,  Shariputra, Padmasambhava, Milarepa, Tilopa and many others up into the modern age.  Besides the historical significance of the relics themselves, there were other educational opportunity with video,exhibuit interpretation and explanation of customs associated with such a display.

Very cool.

But luckily for you, you won't have to waste your time with such things.

Offline Rosalina

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Re: Buddhist Relics, Rituals, & Offerings
« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2017, 04:27:36 am »
This is so cool

Offline ground

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Re: Buddhist Relics, Rituals, & Offerings
« Reply #33 on: June 30, 2017, 07:26:56 am »
What exactly is the point of seeing relics of old masters?
How does that help you get 'enlightened'? Lol
Sounds like a waste of time to me.
Actually enlightenment is not a general aim in buddhism but liberation is.
As Rahul said for the beginner relics may be a motivator, something that enhances belief.

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Buddhist Relics, Rituals, & Offerings
« Reply #34 on: June 30, 2017, 08:53:45 am »
Not sure if already quoted in the line of this matter: The Buddhas reasoning:

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from the Maha-parinibbana Sutta: Last Days of the Buddha

Four Places of Pilgrimage

16. "There are four places, Ananda, that a pious person should visit and look upon with feelings of reverence.[42] What are the four?

17. "'Here the Tathagata was born!'[43] This, Ananda, is a place that a pious person should visit and look upon with feelings of reverence.

18. "'Here the Tathagata became fully enlightened in unsurpassed, supreme Enlightenment!'[44] This, Ananda, is a place that a pious person should visit and look upon with feelings of reverence.

19. "'Here the Tathagata set rolling the unexcelled Wheel of the Dhamma!'[45] This, Ananda, is a place that a pious person should visit and look upon with feelings of reverence.

20. "'Here the Tathagata passed away into the state of Nibbana in which no element of clinging remains!' This, Ananda, is a place that a pious person should visit and look upon with feelings of reverence.

21. "These, Ananda, are the four places that a pious person should visit and look upon with feelings of reverence. And truly there will come to these places, Ananda, pious bhikkhus and bhikkhunis, laymen and laywomen, reflecting: 'Here the Tathagata was born! Here the Tathagata became fully enlightened in unsurpassed, supreme Enlightenment! Here the Tathagata set rolling the unexcelled Wheel of the Dhamma! Here the Tathagata passed away into the state of Nibbana in which no element of clinging remains!'

22. "And whoever, Ananda, should die on such a pilgrimage with his heart established in faith, at the breaking up of the body, after death, will be reborn in a realm of heavenly happiness."

25. Then the Venerable Ananda said: "But how, Lord, should they act respecting the body of the Tathagata?"

"After the same manner, Ananda, as towards the body of a universal monarch."[47]

"But how, Lord, do they act respecting the body of a universal monarch?"

26. "The body of a universal monarch, Ananda, is first wrapped round with new linen, and then with teased cotton wool, and so it is done up to five hundred layers of linen and five hundred of cotton wool. When that is done, the body of the universal monarch is placed in an iron[48] oil vessel, which is enclosed in another iron vessel, a funeral pyre is built of all kinds of perfumed woods, and so the body of the universal monarch is burned; and at a crossroads a stupa is raised for the universal monarch. So it is done, Ananda, with the body of a universal monarch. And even, Ananda, as with the body of a universal monarch, so should it be done with the body of the Tathagata; and at a crossroads also a stupa should be raised for the Tathagata. And whosoever shall bring to that place garlands or incense or sandalpaste, or pay reverence, and whose mind becomes calm there — it will be to his well being and happiness for a long time.

27. "There are four persons, Ananda, who are worthy of a stupa. Who are those four? A Tathagata, an Arahant, a Fully Enlightened One is worthy of a stupa; so also is a Paccekabuddha,[49] and a disciple of a Tathagata, and a universal monarch.

28-31. "And why, Ananda, is a Tathagata, an Arahant, a Fully Enlightened One worthy of a stupa? Because, Ananda, at the thought: 'This is the stupa of that Blessed One, Arahant, Fully Enlightened One!' the hearts of many people will be calmed and made happy; and so calmed and with their minds established in faith therein, at the breaking up of the body, after death, they will be reborn in a realm of heavenly happiness. And so also at the thought: 'This is the stupa of that Paccekabuddha!' or 'This is the stupa of a disciple of that Tathagata, Arahant, Fully Enlightened One!' or 'This is the stupa of that righteous monarch who ruled according to Dhamma!' — the hearts of many people are calmed and made happy; and so calmed and with their minds established in faith therein, at the breaking up of the body, after death, they will be reborn in a realm of heavenly happiness. And it is because of this, Ananda, that these four persons are worthy of a stupa."


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Offline IdleChater

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Re: Buddhist Relics, Rituals, & Offerings
« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2017, 03:12:35 pm »
As Rahul said for the beginner relics may be a motivator, something that enhances belief.

For some perhaps.  For others it's something different, perhaps a case of je ne sais quoi - you don't what it is, but there's a quality that touches you in a most profound way.  I know a number of people who have made pilgrimage to Bodhgaya and they speak of that experience in much the same way.

Offline allen-uk

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Re: Buddhist Relics, Rituals, & Offerings
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2017, 07:57:42 am »
I have a feeling that if the Buddha popped in to this forum and read this post, his reaction would be "What a load of cobblers."

Rituals, relics, flowers, offerings? Shrines, altars, what about priests, psalms, hymns, prayers, all the rest of it?

This is NOT a religion, people. It is a way of life, a philosophy, without any need for these absurd trappings of religion.

You need NONE of this stuff, which is all it is. Stuff, attachments, bindings to wrong thinking.

Someone has to say this, and it might as well be me.

With deep but troubled metta,

Allen.


Offline IdleChater

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Re: Buddhist Relics, Rituals, & Offerings
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2017, 02:41:54 pm »
I have a feeling that if the Buddha popped in to this forum and read this post, his reaction would be "What a load of cobblers."

A feeling?  How nice. 

I have a feeling, too.  It's that if the Buddha read your post, he'd tell us to gang up and take your Super-Secret Vajra Decoder Ring away from you and send you to bed without supper.

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Rituals, relics, flowers, offerings? Shrines, altars, what about priests, psalms, hymns, prayers, all the rest of it?

What about it, and more to the point, what of it?

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This is NOT a religion, people.

It is a religion and has been since the time of the Buddha.


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It is a way of life, a philosophy, without any need for these absurd trappings of religion.

For people born to it, in places like Nepal, Tibet, SE Asia and Sri Lanka it's a way of life.

For you, and I'm spitballing here, Buddhism is a fad, a fashion.  Something you put on to impress people - with your feigned brilliance and superiority.

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Someone has to say this, and it might as well be me.

Well good for you, but you're not the first person to propose what you posted and you won't be the last.  What may be unique is the degree of hubris you demonstrate.

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With deep but troubled metta,

I sincerely doubt that.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2017, 07:17:11 am by IdleChater »

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Buddhist Relics, Rituals, & Offerings
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2017, 11:53:20 pm »
So everybody has his/her adornment. Hard to carry and defend, or?
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Offline allen-uk

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Re: Buddhist Relics, Rituals, & Offerings
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2017, 08:31:27 am »
Dear Idlechater,

Don't take offence, rather think about what is being said, and reply with kindness.

And Samana, well, if nothing can be seen as an adornment, so be it.

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Buddhist Relics, Rituals, & Offerings
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2017, 08:41:02 am »
That's the aim (should be) at least, or? "So be it", is not proper. Just: done. So the question is what adornment is condiuctive and which not. It's not so that they are given up before doing the job that need to be done, Mr Allen.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 05:21:21 am by Samana Johann »
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Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Buddhist Relics, Rituals, & Offerings
« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2017, 08:48:45 am »
Quote
Ugga Sutta: To Ugga

Then Ugga, the king's chief minister, approached the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down, sat to one side. As he was sitting there, he said to the Blessed One: "It's amazing, lord, & awesome, how prosperous Migara Rohaneyya is, how great his treasures, how great his resources!"

[The Buddha:] "But what is his property, Ugga? What are his great treasures & great resources?"

"One hundred thousand pieces of gold, lord, to say nothing of his silver."

"That is treasure, Ugga. I don't say that it's not. And that treasure is open to fire, floods, kings, thieves, & hateful heirs. But these seven treasures are not open to fire, flood, kings, thieves, or hateful heirs. Which seven? The treasure of conviction, the treasure of virtue, the treasure of conscience, the treasure of concern, the treasure of listening, the treasure of generosity, the treasure of discernment. These, Ugga, are the seven treasures that are not open to fire, flood, kings, thieves, or hateful heirs.


The treasure of conviction,
the treasure of virtue,
the treasure of conscience & concern.
The treasure of listening, generosity,
& discernment as the seventh treasure.
Whoever, man or woman, has these treasures,
has great treasure in the world
that no human or divine being can excel.
So conviction & virtue, confidence & Dhamma-vision
should be cultivated by the wise,
remembering the Buddhas' instruction.


Note the order, sequence of the treasures! As well.
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Offline allen-uk

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Re: Buddhist Relics, Rituals, & Offerings
« Reply #42 on: September 24, 2017, 05:12:07 am »
Don't really understand your English assertions or queries, so I'll leave them to one side.

The quote from the Buddha on the subject of treasures is of course precisely, unarguable true. If I knew my quotes, I would try and dig out one on 'offerings' (and of course being a 'religion').

With good humour,

Allen (definitely not 'mister').

Offline IdleChater

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Re: Buddhist Relics, Rituals, & Offerings
« Reply #43 on: September 24, 2017, 06:39:52 am »
Dear Idlechater,

Don't take offence, rather think about what is being said, and reply with kindness.

And Samana, well, if nothing can be seen as an adornment, so be it.

You post offensive crap like you did and expect others to respond with kindness.

Spare me.

Offline allen-uk

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Re: Buddhist Relics, Rituals, & Offerings
« Reply #44 on: September 24, 2017, 08:05:45 am »
No, not offensive crap, dear American, simply challenges from one who practices Buddhism to other fellow-travellers.

I would equally challenge meat-eating Buddhists, for example; I am looking for dialogue, an exchange of views, as this helps us all understand differing positions.

I would apologise for causing such offence, but I fear it would fall on stoney ground (to borrow from a different book).

A

 


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