Author Topic: Is averting Bad?  (Read 569 times)

Offline Tirisilex

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Is averting Bad?
« on: September 25, 2017, 03:09:37 pm »
OK.. I'm doing a couple of things.. I've been meditating and being mindful of for example my Anxiety.. I will acknowledge the anxiety and then I will envision it as a simple form and I will visualize it burning up and it disappears. While this works for me I'm wondering if it is bad to do this?

I'm part of a Tulpa group and I was thinking of making what is known as a Servitor. A servitor is a thought form that is kind of like a robot and just does whatever you program it to do. I was thinking of having the Servitor deal with my anxiety in a similar way. But the question remains would it be bad to deal with anxiety by extinguishing it in flames?

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: Is averting Bad?
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2017, 04:12:02 pm »
OK.. I'm doing a couple of things.. I've been meditating and being mindful of for example my Anxiety.. I will acknowledge the anxiety and then I will envision it as a simple form and I will visualize it burning up and it disappears. While this works for me I'm wondering if it is bad to do this?

Based on general principles of Buddhist meditation, this is good rather than bad. However, it is important you know & feel within your heart & mind freedom from anxiety is good. Kind regards.  :namaste:

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Is averting Bad?
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2017, 04:15:58 pm »
What kind of anxiety/fear is mr/mrs Tirisilex talking about? That is very importand because it's not so that all fear is bad. Think on the fear to possible avert something which actually should be cultivated.

Generally the first approach for the untrained mind is to avert unwholesome thought. One can not avert a feeling but the thought that is causing it, if seeing. It's actually also not so that one can avert a thought, but by "simply" giving it no attention it can not grow and will die away.

So generally its more and most importand to know which thoughts are good and which bad, which fear is useful, which fear not.

The whole training is to avert unskilful, nurish skillful and then clean the mind further.

A talk just came to mind, of which my person thinks that it could be useful in regard of the more underlying thing here: Cutting New Paths in the Mind
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 04:19:30 pm by Samana Johann »
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Offline Tirisilex

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Re: Is averting Bad?
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2017, 06:32:28 pm »
The anxiety I have is from Schizophrenia.. Sometimes I will get anxiety for no reason at all it just hits me. Other times it is from delusional thinking like 'this person is from a government agency and he was sent to kill me.' I'm man enough to recognize that it's a delusion. But the anxiety that comes with it is horrible. I have been meditating the fire thing for a while now and It has been beneficial. I just wanted a Buddhist take on this and see if it is accepteble.

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: Is averting Bad?
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2017, 07:47:01 pm »
I have been meditating the fire thing for a while now and It has been beneficial. I just wanted a Buddhist take on this and see if it is accepteble.

The fire visualization complements Buddhism. Dhammapada 184 states: "patient endurance burns up mental defilements supremely".

Best wishes & metta  :namaste:

« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 07:55:50 pm by VisuddhiRaptor »

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: Is averting Bad?
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2017, 07:53:04 pm »
The whole training is to avert unskilful, nourish skillful and then clean the mind further.

Cleaning the mind requires "burning". Khantī paramaṃ tapo titikkhā

Quote
Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṃ
kusalassa upasampadā
Sacittapariyodapanaṃ
Etaṃ buddhāna sāsanaṃ.
Khantī paramaṃ tapo titikkhā
Nibbāṇaṃ paramaṃ vadanti buddhā

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Is averting Bad?
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2017, 08:23:59 pm »
The anxiety I have is from Schizophrenia.. Sometimes I will get anxiety for no reason at all it just hits me. Other times it is from delusional thinking like 'this person is from a government agency and he was sent to kill me.' I'm man enough to recognize that it's a delusion. But the anxiety that comes with it is horrible. I have been meditating the fire thing for a while now and It has been beneficial. I just wanted a Buddhist take on this and see if it is accepteble.


My person "is" no "Buddhist" but "just" a follower of the Buddha, so in that regard Tirisilex needs to look for him/her self if it fits.
Generally spoken the Buddha told of one, only one thing, that should be killed (approached with "aversion") and that is anger/hatred. Be carful, that is only for anger within one self. If receiving such from outward, somethink disliked, an enemy... such unpleasant thing should be endured. So inwardly, when anger arises, kill it, burn it, so that it never can come outward and hurt others (your self really). If your "agency" approaches, take what ever he likes to do with you while burning what ever aversion away and develop much much fear not kill outwardly and to nurish anger arising within you.

For the practice, especially fear, the most importand basic medicine is virture strikt, unbroken virture. Its not possible to overcome fear just by meditation and to heal the old wounds practicing the Silas (min. 5) is very importand, because it takes the reason for fear arising away. Its not possible that if the virtue is firm that fear could arise more than just a moment till it is understood.

A good talk on this matter is "The Healing Power of the Precepts"

As for the meditation practice: metta, metta, metta to develope right thinking. Here some accesses

To understand fear rightly and the function of the Buddhas medicin, there is this wonderful gift of Dhamma: Freedom From Fear

When ever not contuctive fear arises it's ripping of old karma. By practicing silas one avoids new and by practicing metta and staying mindful (remembering: just fear, just endure...) one becomes more and more skilled to take even the most worth karmas ripping, step by step. In this way the wounds heal, sometimes quick, sometimes some years, but 100% success if following the treatment as given.

My person, at the end, does not think that it is good to develope an image of growing fire that burns fear away. That is not wise and nurishes anger subtile and even dangerous. If able to give fear the image of fire and than let it starve or derive of the means with metta, let it become and grow cold, then such a visualisation can be conductive. So not foolish fire by fire fightings and such "games" like Hellsangles which is often practiced by "heros" outside of the Buddhas way. That makes most really sick, for a long long time.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 08:45:16 pm by Samana Johann »
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Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Is averting Bad?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2017, 08:31:37 pm »
The whole training is to avert unskilful, nourish skillful and then clean the mind further.

Cleaning the mind requires "burning". Khantī paramaṃ tapo titikkhā

Quote
Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṃ
kusalassa upasampadā
Sacittapariyodapanaṃ
Etaṃ buddhāna sāsanaṃ.
Khantī paramaṃ tapo titikkhā
Nibbāṇaṃ paramaṃ vadanti buddhā

"Yes", actually kanti is nothing then burning it away. What does that mean? Just give no more fuel into that what just bruns. That is meant by burning away. It should be not understood in a way that fire is fought with fire. The metaphor should be understood rightly.
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Offline Tirisilex

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Re: Is averting Bad?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2017, 09:21:52 pm »
I might not be getting with what you're saying.. But visualizing fire to burn up say anger isn't fighting fire with fire. If I was trying to extinguish anger with anger then yes it would be wrong. But I don't see visualizing say anger being purged by fire as the same thing. So it's not like I'm using fear to fight fear. I don't see how it could be different than trying to say to deal with fear with its antidote which is what? Confidence? Calmness? So I burn up the "fear", "anxiety" and replace them with Calmness and Confidence. Because in the long run I am still destroying the fear and replacing it with something else.

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Is averting Bad?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2017, 09:36:27 pm »
The antidote of wrong fear is right fear. The antidote of all kind of fear is vijja, knowing or better the total destruction of avijja, not-knowing (delusion).
Confidence and calmess are fine, if Tirisilex even likes to have advices and does not only like to defend ways he/she acts, seeking conformation of what he/she does.

So generally yes, if it works that way as told and is good known and investigated that actually the talk is not a different then the deed, helps, the addition of "when you know for your self...and it is praised by the wise" can be added here.

Just again to virtue, your ways do not seem as if they have very needed fear, and in such manners it's useless work: like people leading unhealthy work seek fitness to do on as usual. It would not heal and yes it's a replacement job, a wandering on.

As for the medicine of the Buddha, nothing will be replaced but simply let it burn down, give no more nurishment into it.

Maybe a good Sutta to make as a reminder of what is conductive to get ride of fear eternaly, become Khmer, khema: Compliance
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 09:51:04 pm by Samana Johann »
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Offline Tirisilex

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Re: Is averting Bad?
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2017, 10:35:06 pm »
To help clear things up I'm a guy.

Offline Tirisilex

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Re: Is averting Bad?
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2017, 10:46:27 pm »

So generally yes, if it works that way as told and is good known and investigated that actually the talk is not a different then the deed, helps, the addition of "when you know for your self...and it is praised by the wise" can be added here.


I have read this over and over and I haven't got a clue as to what you are trying to say.

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Is averting Bad?
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2017, 10:57:59 pm »
To help clear things up I'm a guy.


Oh yes, my person tells that again and again, to stand by oneself is very conuctive in regard od fear, it treats one to be always and everywhere heedful/conscious, never act in ways that are reasons for fear arising: Suggestions in regard of "Avatar and User placements"

A healthy self-esteem, virtue and fearlessness, a becoming ride of any personal splitting, like virtue starts merely outwardly and becomes more and more an inwardly matter, requires letting go of means to run away of ones deeds in impossible ways. Try the first steps, Tirisilex, generosity and virtue and if not able yet, try to remove the reasons for it but best is concerning and standing ones man, "subject I am to my deeds (karma)"
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Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Is averting Bad?
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2017, 11:06:44 pm »

So generally yes, if it works that way as told and is good known and investigated that actually the talk is not a different then the deed, helps, the addition of "when you know for your self...and it is praised by the wise" can be added here.



I have read this over and over and I haven't got a clue as to what you are trying to say.


It was "just" to confirm it with the words of the wise in it's own regard:

Quote
"Now, Kalamas, don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, 'This contemplative is our teacher.' When you know for yourselves that, 'These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness' — then you should enter & remain in them.

Kalama-Sutta


If Tirisilex had the first conforming by himself, with the additions here in line with the Dhamma, e.g. the wise, Tirisilex should be fine with his practice. (As said: if good investigated of what he, Tirisilex, told). Thats all: just a kind of release, expressing of Mudita, appreciation or Anumodana.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 11:10:19 pm by Samana Johann »
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Offline Ron-the-Elder

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Re: Is averting Bad?
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2017, 08:44:01 am »
Found this with regard to fear and its countermeasures:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-korda/buddhist-psychological-pr_b_7908520.html
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

 


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