Author Topic: Is free will illusion?  (Read 369 times)

Offline bahman

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Is free will illusion?
« on: April 30, 2017, 11:36:48 am »
 To my understanding that is consciousness, fifth aggregate, that allows us enforce an act based on inputs we receive, other four aggregate. What is the use of these all if free will is illusion?
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 11:51:13 am by bahman »

Offline IdleChater

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Re: Is free will illusion?
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2017, 11:49:27 am »
To my understanding that is consciousness, fifth aggregate, that allows us enforce an act based on inputs we receive, other five aggregate. What is the use of these all if free will is illusion?

How did you come to this understanding of consciousness?

Offline bahman

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Re: Is free will illusion?
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2017, 12:03:31 pm »
To my understanding that is consciousness, fifth aggregate, that allows us enforce an act based on inputs we receive, other four aggregate. What is the use of these all if free will is illusion?
How did you come to this understanding of consciousness?

 With contemplation.

Offline IdleChater

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Re: Is free will illusion?
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2017, 12:55:44 pm »
To my understanding that is consciousness, fifth aggregate, that allows us enforce an act based on inputs we receive, other four aggregate. What is the use of these all if free will is illusion?
How did you come to this understanding of consciousness?

 With contemplation.

OK, cool!

But again, this isn't a Buddhist teaching.  You dan't seem particularly interested in what Buddhism teaches on the subjects, so I can't help but wonder why you're discussing your ideas in a forum where there is bound to be fundamental disagreement.  You're not trolling, or being a disruption, so it's cool, but it does seem that you're at odds with the answers your getting to the questions you're asking.

Offline bahman

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Re: Is free will illusion?
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2017, 12:59:56 pm »
To my understanding that is consciousness, fifth aggregate, that allows us enforce an act based on inputs we receive, other four aggregate. What is the use of these all if free will is illusion?
How did you come to this understanding of consciousness?

 With contemplation.

OK, cool!

But again, this isn't a Buddhist teaching.  You dan't seem particularly interested in what Buddhism teaches on the subjects, so I can't help but wonder why you're discussing your ideas in a forum where there is bound to be fundamental disagreement.  You're not trolling, or being a disruption, so it's cool, but it does seem that you're at odds with the answers your getting to the questions you're asking.

 I don't agree with His teaching and I think I should discuss it with believer.

Offline Weagean

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Re: Is free will illusion?
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2017, 02:37:06 pm »
Some recent research has concluded the decision's are already made prior to us knowing the question. The experiments have been duplicated by other researchers with the same conclusion. However, there is an alternate view that explains this away. So I think the jury is still out, With no self, and our minds drugged on illusions. Then Quantum physics changes everything. There are some great discussions on YouTube on consciousness, where the mind is, and how quantum physics is blowing our minds. Also, per Buddhist thought, I believe the aggregates have six consciousness'. http://www.buddhistdoor.com/OldWeb/bdoor/archive/nutshell/teach11.htm#t
I use to think Buddhism was hard to buy some of it.  But it appears science and Buddhism are now coming to the same conclusions about the nature of existence. The Dali Lama has said we should question our beliefs, and change them if they are found to be false. I think this form of living Buddhism is much better than grasping dogma. Peacepossible.com

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« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 03:19:36 pm by Weagean »

Offline Weagean

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Re: Is free will illusion?
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2017, 03:23:19 pm »
The sixth aggregate; consciousness, coordinates the five aggregate consciousness' each aggregate has. (Buddhism in a nutshell)

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Offline francis

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Re: Is free will illusion?
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2017, 07:27:01 pm »
The sixth aggregate; consciousness, coordinates the five aggregate consciousness' each aggregate has. (Buddhism in a nutshell)

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Hi Weagean,

There is no sixth aggregate.

Never has there been a sixth aggregate.
"Enlightenment, for a wave in the ocean, is the moment the wave realises it is water." - Thich Nhat Hanh

Offline IdleChater

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Re: Is free will illusion?
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2017, 07:22:56 am »
To my understanding that is consciousness, fifth aggregate, that allows us enforce an act based on inputs we receive, other four aggregate. What is the use of these all if free will is illusion?
How did you come to this understanding of consciousness?



 With contemplation.

OK, cool!

But again, this isn't a Buddhist teaching.  You dan't seem particularly interested in what Buddhism teaches on the subjects, so I can't help but wonder why you're discussing your ideas in a forum where there is bound to be fundamental disagreement.  You're not trolling, or being a disruption, so it's cool, but it does seem that you're at odds with the answers your getting to the questions you're asking.

 I don't agree with His teaching and I think I should discuss it with believer.

Well, of you don't agree, what is the point of discussing with someone who does?

Offline zafrogzen

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Re: Is free will illusion?
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2017, 05:05:57 pm »
Hi Bahman,

You wrote
Quote
I don't agree with His teaching and I think I should discuss it with believer.
I  also don’t see the point of discussing Buddhism if you disagree with it -- unless you have a real understanding of its teachings and have meditated enough to have proved their untruth or truth for yourself -- neither of which you appear to have accomplished.

Just your use of the term "believer" shows you haven't investigated Buddhism much. Have you tried meditation? That is the fire of Buddhism. All the rest is just smoke. You'll never understand Buddhist teachings without some real meditative experience.
My first formal meditation training was with Shunryu Suzuki in the 60's and later with Kobun, Robert Aitken and many other teachers (mainly zen). However, I've spent the most time practicing on my own, which is all I do now. I'm living in a rather isolated area so I miss connecting with other practitioners. Despite my interest in zen I've made an effort to remain secular. You can visit my website at http://www.frogzen.com

Offline IdleChater

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Re: Is free will illusion?
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2017, 05:27:57 pm »
The sixth aggregate; consciousness, coordinates the five aggregate consciousness' each aggregate has. (Buddhism in a nutshell)

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Hi Weagean,

There is no sixth aggregate.

Never has there been a sixth aggregate.

I was thinking the same.

Also, from what I've been taught the 5 aggregates don't have consciousness.  The 6 senses or ayatanas each have a consciousness.

Offline bahman

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Re: Is free will illusion?
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2017, 06:24:04 am »
To my understanding that is consciousness, fifth aggregate, that allows us enforce an act based on inputs we receive, other four aggregate. What is the use of these all if free will is illusion?
How did you come to this understanding of consciousness?



 With contemplation.

OK, cool!

But again, this isn't a Buddhist teaching.  You dan't seem particularly interested in what Buddhism teaches on the subjects, so I can't help but wonder why you're discussing your ideas in a forum where there is bound to be fundamental disagreement.  You're not trolling, or being a disruption, so it's cool, but it does seem that you're at odds with the answers your getting to the questions you're asking.

 I don't agree with His teaching and I think I should discuss it with believer.

Well, of you don't agree, what is the point of discussing with someone who does?

 Hmmm. Couldn't you discuss His teaching logically?

Offline bahman

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Re: Is free will illusion?
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2017, 06:38:48 am »
Hi Bahman,

You wrote
Quote
I don't agree with His teaching and I think I should discuss it with believer.
I  also don’t see the point of discussing Buddhism if you disagree with it -- unless you have a real understanding of its teachings and have meditated enough to have proved their untruth or truth for yourself -- neither of which you appear to have accomplished.

Just your use of the term "believer" shows you haven't investigated Buddhism much. Have you tried meditation? That is the fire of Buddhism. All the rest is just smoke. You'll never understand Buddhist teachings without some real meditative experience.

 Do you mean that He/you could not make single argument knowing what the truth is?

Offline zafrogzen

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Re: Is free will illusion?
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2017, 09:53:38 am »
Bahman,

Before I answer another of your convoluted questions, can you answer my earlier, straightforward query -- Have you tried meditation?
My first formal meditation training was with Shunryu Suzuki in the 60's and later with Kobun, Robert Aitken and many other teachers (mainly zen). However, I've spent the most time practicing on my own, which is all I do now. I'm living in a rather isolated area so I miss connecting with other practitioners. Despite my interest in zen I've made an effort to remain secular. You can visit my website at http://www.frogzen.com

Offline bahman

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Re: Is free will illusion?
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2017, 10:27:17 am »
Bahman,

Before I answer another of your convoluted questions, can you answer my earlier, straightforward query -- Have you tried meditation?

 No. I might try it in future if I know what is the use of it.

 


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