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A Mosaic of Traditions - One Virtual Sangha => Buddha Basics - Beginner Zone => Topic started by: VisuddhiRaptor on October 14, 2017, 01:18:29 am

Title: It is bad karma to call a bhikkhuni a "prostitute"?
Post by: VisuddhiRaptor on October 14, 2017, 01:18:29 am
I was reading a Buddhist chat site where a person claimed some bhikkhunis who gained enlightenment were prostitutes, as follows:

Quote
There have been ... prostitutes who realised the Dhamma quick, as they possible do today, if coming proper in touch.

It is bad karma to call a bhikkhuni a "prostitute"?   :scratch:
Title: Re: It is bad karma to call a bhikkhuni a "prostitute"?
Post by: Ron-the-Elder on October 16, 2017, 04:00:38 am
I think the idea is that no matter what harmful paths we have taken in the past, each present moment is an opportunity to change our intentional actions (kamma) to more beneficial actions. 

As to the case mentioned, in many third world cultures it is an act of desperation to take on a role, which is considered degrading and non-beneficial for the sake of survival.  Or it could have been a parent, who sold-off their child into sexual slavery.  We don't know the particulars in this case.  So, rather than condemn or look down upon such individuals, it is an act of compassion on our parts to look upon such "previous" life / livelihood choices with understanding and loving-kindness.

In the suttas it has been told that even mass murderers can realize the dhamma and attain Arahantship.  A specific case which comes to mind is found in The Angulimala Sutta:  https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/hecker/wheel312.html (https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/hecker/wheel312.html)
Title: Re: It is bad karma to call a bhikkhuni a "prostitute"?
Post by: Rahul on November 07, 2017, 07:35:51 pm
'Good' and 'Bad' are labels assigned to karma after evaluating it based on a framework (ethical, logical, legal...). But this label will depend on what framework you are adopting. And different people, societies, ideologies, historical periods have different frameworks... Now you may think that 'we must then adopt right framework to evaluate karma '. But then again 'right' and 'wrong' are labels assigned to such karma-evaluation-frameworks based on another set of evaluation frameworks...

Thus, it won't be productive to evaluate a karma to be good or bad.

The question should be rather 'what would be the result of a karma'. In this case 'what would be the result of calling a bhikkhuni a prostitute'. I don't think that any divine being (if they are) would punish that person for this. But if that person used this term out of contempt or with intention of deriding that bhikkuni, then his mind is already filled with hatred. And that itself is a punishment. How? His mind will be agitated, he will strengthen his own ego somehow, and he is conditioning himself in rejoicing at deriding others. His mind is agitated so he won't feel peace and for that  particular day he won't be attentive or productive. He is strengthening his ego that he is superior than someone, but that also means he will be inferior in many ways than many others. He is entering into a game of comparison. He is rejoicing at deriding others he thinks are inferior than him, and so sooner or later he would feel miserable when he finds out how others are superior to him. All in all, he is paving a path to his own mental suffering.

But suppose it wasn't out of contempt, suppose he used that term to highlight to others that no matter what their situation is (criminals, offenders, prostitutes, murderers...) they all can learn dhamma and gain enlightenment. Then in that case he won't have any miserable consequences.
Title: Re: It is bad karma to call a bhikkhuni a "prostitute"?
Post by: ground on November 08, 2017, 11:15:46 pm
It is bad karma to call a bhikkhuni a "prostitute"?   :scratch:

It is bad karma to call a prostitute a "bhikkhuni"?   :fu:
Title: Re: It is bad karma to call a bhikkhuni a "prostitute"?
Post by: VisuddhiRaptor on November 09, 2017, 02:13:14 am
It is bad karma to call a prostitute a "bhikkhuni"?   

Your guru Johann post this. What happened to Johann here on F.S.? Did he Ascension to Heaven?  Johann said prostitutes attained Nibbana but I said they were bhikkhunis rather than prostitutes. Are you saying neither of us was correct? :teehee:
Title: Re: It is bad karma to call a bhikkhuni a "prostitute"?
Post by: ground on November 09, 2017, 02:36:03 am
Johann said prostitutes attained Nibbana but I said they were bhikkhunis rather than prostitutes. Are you saying neither of us was correct? :teehee:
Prostitutes attain prostitutes' nibbana and bhikkhunis attain bhikkhunis' nibbana. Plain and simple.  :fu:
Title: Re: It is bad karma to call a bhikkhuni a "prostitute"?
Post by: VisuddhiRaptor on November 09, 2017, 03:08:59 am
Prostitutes attain prostitutes' nibbana and bhikkhunis attain bhikkhunis' nibbana. Plain and simple.  :fu:

 :fu:  :jinsyx: So what happened to Johann? Why is Johann now spamming the high quality forum?
Title: Re: It is bad karma to call a bhikkhuni a "prostitute"?
Post by: ground on November 09, 2017, 11:39:40 am
Prostitutes attain prostitutes' nibbana and bhikkhunis attain bhikkhunis' nibbana. Plain and simple.  :fu:

 :fu:  :jinsyx: So what happened to Johann? Why is Johann now spamming the high quality forum?
Neither do I know this person better than you know him nor do I know a 'high quality forum'.
Title: Re: It is bad karma to call a bhikkhuni a "prostitute"?
Post by: IdleChater on November 09, 2017, 12:01:57 pm
I know what happened to Johann, but I'm not tellin'

 :wacky:
Title: Re: It is bad karma to call a bhikkhuni a "prostitute"?
Post by: meez on November 09, 2017, 01:09:48 pm
Prostitutes attain prostitutes' nibbana and bhikkhunis attain bhikkhunis' nibbana. Plain and simple.  :fu:

 :fu:  :jinsyx: So what happened to Johann? Why is Johann now spamming the high quality forum?

Are you implying that this forum is of lower quality in some way than another?
Title: Re: It is bad karma to call a bhikkhuni a "prostitute"?
Post by: Rahul on November 09, 2017, 08:38:29 pm
Prostitutes attain prostitutes' nibbana and bhikkhunis attain bhikkhunis' nibbana. Plain and simple.  :fu:

 :fu:  :jinsyx: So what happened to Johann? Why is Johann now spamming the high quality forum?

Are you implying that this forum is of lower quality in some way than another?

Is it really necessary that an administrator has to interpret whether a comment implicitly criticizes this forum? I am not sure what he meant by this comment, but suppose he meant that there are other forums with higher quality than this one, then what would be your response?
Title: Re: It is bad karma to call a bhikkhuni a "prostitute"?
Post by: meez on November 10, 2017, 09:08:34 am
Prostitutes attain prostitutes' nibbana and bhikkhunis attain bhikkhunis' nibbana. Plain and simple.  :fu:

 :fu:  :jinsyx: So what happened to Johann? Why is Johann now spamming the high quality forum?

Are you implying that this forum is of lower quality in some way than another?

Is it really necessary that an administrator has to interpret whether a comment implicitly criticizes this forum? I am not sure what he meant by this comment, but suppose he meant that there are other forums with higher quality than this one, then what would be your response?

Is it necessary?  No.  Just like your comment wasn't a necessity, being here on this forum isn't a necessity, and this forum's existence isn't a necessity.  But, here we are.
Title: Re: It is bad karma to call a bhikkhuni a "prostitute"?
Post by: VisuddhiRaptor on November 10, 2017, 06:02:03 pm
Are you implying that this forum is of lower quality in some way than another?

Good sir & friend Meez. By 'high quality forum', I was referring to a forum that is not run by Buddhists, is primarily focused only on Buddhist philosophy and has a question & answer format thus allowing very little scope for debate because a member can only post one answer to a question. Johann spends his time there spamming invalid questions & answers that must often be deleted. Unlike most Buddhist forums, Johann cannot be banned yet is moderated far more often due to the strict academic based posting rules. This is what I meant by 'high quality forum', namely, a forum that actually only allows high quality questions & answers because it aims to be an academic scholarly forum. Any off-topic or poor quality question or answer is deleted as a matter of policy. For example, Johann's last effort at a question is on 'hold' for review due to being down voted by at least 4 members. This forum also has forums on many topics, around 200, such as Christianity, computing, mathematics, drones, world history, home improvement, etc. Each forum seems to follow the same strict rules & policies. I started this thread on Free Sangha to discuss one of Johann's answers here with Johann, namely, where on a question about prostitution, Johann answered many prostitutes (rather than ex-prostitutes) gain enlightenment in Buddhism. But it seems Johann has now vanished from Free Sangha. Therefore, since this topic is redundant, due to Johann's absence, you are welcome to delete it.

Kind regards & thank you for your good work here.  :namaste:
Title: Re: It is bad karma to call a bhikkhuni a "prostitute"?
Post by: ground on November 11, 2017, 03:49:17 am
... Johann spends his time there spamming invalid questions & answers that must often be deleted. Unlike most Buddhist forums, Johann cannot be banned yet is moderated far more often due to the strict academic based posting rules. ...

Wow ... lucky Johann. Finally he has found a forum where he cannot be banned.  :teehee:
Title: Re: It is bad karma to call a bhikkhuni a "prostitute"?
Post by: philboyd on November 11, 2017, 11:25:09 pm
Is there an implication of ill will here, if so, toward whom?
I was reading a Buddhist chat site where a person claimed some bhikkhunis who gained enlightenment were prostitutes, as follows:

Quote
There have been ... prostitutes who realised the Dhamma quick, as they possible do today, if coming proper in touch.

It is bad karma to call a bhikkhuni a "prostitute"?   :scratch:

Title: Re: It is bad karma to call a bhikkhuni a "prostitute"?
Post by: VisuddhiRaptor on November 12, 2017, 02:04:42 am
Is there an implication of ill will here, if so, toward whom?

Sounds like compassion is being confused with ill-will, here.  :namaste:
Title: Re: It is bad karma to call a bhikkhuni a "prostitute"?
Post by: philboyd on November 12, 2017, 03:00:40 am
Confused about compassion causing bad karma. Help me understand your question. Thanks
Is there an implication of ill will here, if so, toward whom?

Sounds like compassion is being confused with ill-will, here.  :namaste:
Title: Re: It is bad karma to call a bhikkhuni a "prostitute"?
Post by: IdleChater on November 12, 2017, 09:04:47 am
Is there an implication of ill will here, if so, toward whom?
I was reading a Buddhist chat site where a person claimed some bhikkhunis who gained enlightenment were prostitutes, as follows:

Quote
There have been ... prostitutes who realised the Dhamma quick, as they possible do today, if coming proper in touch.

It is bad karma to call a bhikkhuni a "prostitute"?   :scratch:


Considering the source, I'd say the ill will extends to many/all.

The actual post that spawned this thread has mostly to do with someone who is no longer here.
Title: Re: It is bad karma to call a bhikkhuni a "prostitute"?
Post by: VisuddhiRaptor on November 12, 2017, 05:26:34 pm
Confused about compassion causing bad karma. Help me understand your question. Thanks

This thread was merely started for some fun & no-one involved had ill-will. The actual post that spawned this thread has mostly to do with someone who is no longer here. Best to let this thread go & move on.  :namaste:
Title: Re: It is bad karma to call a bhikkhuni a "prostitute"?
Post by: meez on November 13, 2017, 10:42:41 am
Are you implying that this forum is of lower quality in some way than another?

Good sir & friend Meez. By 'high quality forum', I was referring to a forum that is not run by Buddhists, is primarily focused only on Buddhist philosophy and has a question & answer format thus allowing very little scope for debate because a member can only post one answer to a question. Johann spends his time there spamming invalid questions & answers that must often be deleted. Unlike most Buddhist forums, Johann cannot be banned yet is moderated far more often due to the strict academic based posting rules. This is what I meant by 'high quality forum', namely, a forum that actually only allows high quality questions & answers because it aims to be an academic scholarly forum. Any off-topic or poor quality question or answer is deleted as a matter of policy. For example, Johann's last effort at a question is on 'hold' for review due to being down voted by at least 4 members. This forum also has forums on many topics, around 200, such as Christianity, computing, mathematics, drones, world history, home improvement, etc. Each forum seems to follow the same strict rules & policies. I started this thread on Free Sangha to discuss one of Johann's answers here with Johann, namely, where on a question about prostitution, Johann answered many prostitutes (rather than ex-prostitutes) gain enlightenment in Buddhism. But it seems Johann has now vanished from Free Sangha. Therefore, since this topic is redundant, due to Johann's absence, you are welcome to delete it.

Kind regards & thank you for your good work here.  :namaste:

I know you weren't being malicious or degrading in some way with the "high quality" stuff.  Was just giving you a hard time.  All in good fun.

Take care!
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