I feel how much I am attached to my girl, my wife, my parents and so on. I don't want to lose them even if their existence as an objecive human being is only an illusion.I wouldn't mind having to lose any object, but not my loved ones. This feels really painful.How can I continue to love them if they're not really existing in the way I have always taken for granted?If that is not true love, than what does true love look like?Will my realization of truth not cause her suffering because I can't love her the same as I used to anymore?Will this intense feeling of love disappear?I have a fear that this realization will take love away from me and replace it with a lesser kind of love or even with a cold emptiness.I'm really afraid of loneliness and isolation and that is the feeling I feel now when thinking about these concepts.Is ignorance to the truth bliss after all?I guess my main question is:Am I in great risk of causing myself more suffering by not realizing the nature of non-self and non-dualism but still keep trying to get it, then be told that I need to stop looking, that "I" cannot expect myself to wake up because there is no I....so I stop searching, but still the realization doesn't happen. And so I get back to where I started. Over and over again.
I started out this topic asking 2 or 3 questions, but while I was writing them down I realised things which in turn brought many new questions.I'm sorry for this long rant. I would want to split it up in different topics, but it's all so connected for me that I don't know where to split.First I must say that I suffer from depression.It may be that my thoughts are clouded by it and that therefore I fail to see things that healthier people would notice.I suffered from panic attacks and social anxiety for the last 15 years.I was given benzodiapines (tranquilizers) by my gp. Soon it became a habbit and an addiction. It was the only way I could go out of my house. Because of that I lived in a clouded reality for many years.After several attempts and a stay in a rehab clinic, I was finally able to completely withdraw in November last year.As with most people who have been addicted to tranquilizers, quite severe depression came upon me after completely quitting them.I don't think the depression comes from dealing with traumatic events, but from the way these pills mess with your brain chemistry and even structure.I'm afraid of death and isolation..Even before this depression I remember myself as a young kid asking questions of an existential nature. For example around the age of five I asked my mom "why do we live?" and I asked my dad "if the universe began with the big bang, what was there before that?" Each time I asked these kind of questions I felt strong anxiety coming over me, but I had no idea why that was.My young life wasn't always full of anxiety and depression. I remember many moments of great joy and magic.A kind of magic that is lost to me now and where I desperately yearn for.I just really want to be happy again.I know this is not a mental health forum, but it is through this mental pain and in seeking answers to my existential demons that I stumbled on Buddhism.Last night I was listening to Fred Davis on non dualism and the absence of the character or ego.At the same time my 2 year old daughter was playing beside me.I felt that a few things he said started to make a bit of sense until I was overwhelmed by a strong fear.I looked at my little girl and I noticed how afraid I was of losing her and along all that I love. That because I may realise that none of us actually exist.I feel how much I am attached to my girl, my wife, my parents and so on. I don't want to lose them even if their existence as an objecive human being is only an illusion.I wouldn't mind having to lose any object, but not my loved ones. This feels really painful.Another question I have:How can I continue to love them if they're not really existing in the way I have always taken for granted?If that is not true love, than what does true love look like?Will my realization of truth not cause her suffering because I can't love her the same as I used to anymore?Will this intense feeling of love disappear?I have a fear that this realization will take love away from me and replace it with a lesser kind of love or even with a cold emptiness.I'm really afraid of loneliness and isolation and that is the feeling I feel now when thinking about these concepts.Is ignorance to the truth bliss after all?A last question.What is morality?If there is no such thing as good and evil, why should we act in a way that doesn't cause suffering?Why are buddhists always so kind and caring for everything if there is no good or bad.What makes them act in ways that doesn't cause suffering? What is the motivation for that?I guess my main question is:Am I in great risk of causing myself more suffering by not realizing the nature of non-self and non-dualism but still keep trying to get it, then be told that I need to stop looking, that "I" cannot expect myself to wake up because there is no I....so I stop searching, but still the realization doesn't happen. And so I get back to where I started. Over and over again.Can I actually be a good, loving and providing father / husband when in the middle of all these emotional ?Am I not going to wind up depressed and next killing myself?I'm saying this because I've felt like that before when searching.I used to feel a sense of magic in my life.Recently I became seriously depressed though and the magic seems gone.Reading about and reflecting on Buddhist concepts isn't helping me. It honestly makes me feel worse.Sometimes I wish there was a way to return to my simple and untroubled ignorant life. On the other hand Buddha and all those other people surely weren't joking when they said that end to suffering is possible.Maybe my approach is just wrong and I should somehow give it a new chance, but I'm scared.Recently when reading about Buddhism I feel that what I'm doing and what most other people around me are doing is pointless because we are all doing it for ourselves; to bring more comfort in our lives or for personal development.We think we are a certain person who vaguely thinks he wants to achieve this and this and that.So what is meaningful? What do people who are enlightened do with their time?Except for those who teach their findings to others.That automatically makes me think about the outcome of an enlightened humanity.Why does the cycle of birth and rebirth stop after enlightment? if all humans in some distant future come to experience Nirvana, no humans will ever be born again. What is the point of this?I am thinking that maybe I see things too literally while it is more abstract?Maybe it's not whole human beings being reborn, but parts of their unawakened conciousness. What is this this conciousness anyway? How come it won't disappear when I die? Will I ever remember this life in a next life? Will I remember my daughter and family, friends?Sorry for asking so many questions.I don't expect to get answers on all of them. Just discussing one at a time would be great.Thank you for reading.Wouter
1. Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy might be what you are looking for to help with the depression: https://mbct.co.uk/ 2. The attachments you lose are over-attachments to ideas, not the attachments you have to real people. Love continues, even grows stronger, although we may not do quite so many stupid things over it. What you read about illusion and attachment are technical terms which take a deal of understanding in a Buddhist sense, so it is not surprising you find it a rather puzzling aspect of Buddhist talk.3. When you are told to 'stop looking' this again is technical jargon that takes many years to understand in the Buddhist context. Like when they say 'there is no I', and so on. These ideas are to study and talk through with others who are interested, not to be taken as 'gospel' and taken up straight away. The bad news is that there is no instant fix for the kind of suffering Buddhism talks about, and realization can take many years. The good news is that a couple of simple meditations, over a number of months, will help reduce anxiety and bring with them many other benefits, such as reduced blood pressure. Take a look at MBCT links and see what you think.
The Buddha was very wise, the wisest being perhaps to have lived in a mortal shell. Encountering the high knowledge endeavors of knowing what and who we are and how we fit into the universe is the topic of much consideration for mankind, and Buddhism does offer a lot in this regard, but I might consider looking first at the core of the teachings which give a foundation to understand these things from. It is very important we don't think that our place is a Nihilistic existence in which nothing really matters, and that as far as I understand and have encountered it was not the message at all.
their is 5 hindrances which stop you from attaining 1st jhana, sensory desire,ill will,sloth and toper,restlessness worry,doubt it's important to be able to get into 1st jhana as it's the best mind state to be in to see reality as it really is,so I guess it's a good ideas to watch your patterns of worry and ur doubt and fear that ur expressing from what you posted and realise that ur watching a conditioned mind that can be reconditioned to your liking,watch how it is a waste of time to be fearing and worrying,retrain yourself to accept what way ur feeling now knowing that you can counter these negative feelings by focusing on the joyful things that u have like your kids,build up your well being with these thoughts,joy is 1 of the 7 factors of enlightenment ,my battery almost wasted lolSent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
Quote from: stillpointdancer on April 27, 2018, 09:05:59 am1. Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy might be what you are looking for to help with the depression: https://mbct.co.uk/ 2. The attachments you lose are over-attachments to ideas, not the attachments you have to real people. Love continues, even grows stronger, although we may not do quite so many stupid things over it. What you read about illusion and attachment are technical terms which take a deal of understanding in a Buddhist sense, so it is not surprising you find it a rather puzzling aspect of Buddhist talk.3. When you are told to 'stop looking' this again is technical jargon that takes many years to understand in the Buddhist context. Like when they say 'there is no I', and so on. These ideas are to study and talk through with others who are interested, not to be taken as 'gospel' and taken up straight away. The bad news is that there is no instant fix for the kind of suffering Buddhism talks about, and realization can take many years. The good news is that a couple of simple meditations, over a number of months, will help reduce anxiety and bring with them many other benefits, such as reduced blood pressure. Take a look at MBCT links and see what you think.Thank you for your advice stillpointdancer.I know a mindfulness and meditation class for anxiety and depression sufferers exists in my country as well. I haven't given it any consideration yet, but I think I will try it. What troubles me with meditation is the quietness. It brings all the sensations of anxiety, scary thoughts, restlessness of the mind and pain in the body much more to the front. There's no way to escape from them anymore. I guess that's the point of it all, but it makes me uncomfortable.I think I do need to join a Buddhist practitioner's group too.I'm reading so much and it often makes some sense intellectually, but I feel that I am only scratching the surface of what is beneath. What is paramount to me is a genuine experience that makes me know something.Until recently I was so convinced of my immortality that it was like a belief. I never had the thought that one day I will die too. That is different now. I have lost that belief and what remains are the constant thoughts about the uncertainties that go with death.What I've understood from a Buddhist point of view is that there is no such thing as "I" to begin with, so there is also no I that can die. My perception of an ego is a wrong perception clouded by all sorts of conditions of the mind that I have set up during my life. All there is is awareness which is not a property of only me.It's this part that feels very religious to me. How can I test the validity of this idea? Are there any people here who know from direct experience that consciousness is eternal and that it continues after death? How can one find out? Quote from: Anemephistus on April 28, 2018, 02:14:15 pmThe Buddha was very wise, the wisest being perhaps to have lived in a mortal shell. Encountering the high knowledge endeavors of knowing what and who we are and how we fit into the universe is the topic of much consideration for mankind, and Buddhism does offer a lot in this regard, but I might consider looking first at the core of the teachings which give a foundation to understand these things from. It is very important we don't think that our place is a Nihilistic existence in which nothing really matters, and that as far as I understand and have encountered it was not the message at all. Dear Anemephistus,Thank you for your very insightful words. I appreciate them very much.It seems to me that you have experienced something which made you know that our place is not a Nihilistic existence.Every time I read about Buddhist concepts I am stricken by the profoundness of them. However it is my way to think things over in a logical and deterministic way because that is what feels natural to me. When I continue along this line I always come out at this nihilistic view that there is no free will, everything is already decided and that death means the end is the only logical outcome.Yet I also have the hope that this is not the case, but all my logical reasoning says that is just wishful thinking.So, I need something different from reasoning and thinking. An experience of knowing.What you have experienced I want to experience too. It's what I need to liberate myself from this state of fear.I have ordered the book that you recommended.As to find a teacher, I know there are many different schools of Buddhism also in my county.I know of a Soto zen teaching center, but also a Tibetan monastery and a Thai Buddhist center among a few others.How to find out which one is the best to go? I know that the zen center fully focuses on the meditation and mantra's. They don't go into the teachings and don't do the philosophical discussions.Quote from: lucid365 on April 29, 2018, 02:00:02 pmtheir is 5 hindrances which stop you from attaining 1st jhana, sensory desire,ill will,sloth and toper,restlessness worry,doubt it's important to be able to get into 1st jhana as it's the best mind state to be in to see reality as it really is,so I guess it's a good ideas to watch your patterns of worry and ur doubt and fear that ur expressing from what you posted and realise that ur watching a conditioned mind that can be reconditioned to your liking,watch how it is a waste of time to be fearing and worrying,retrain yourself to accept what way ur feeling now knowing that you can counter these negative feelings by focusing on the joyful things that u have like your kids,build up your well being with these thoughts,joy is 1 of the 7 factors of enlightenment ,my battery almost wasted lolSent from my SM-N910F using TapatalkThank you for your helpful advice Lucid.I'd like to know, do you know of any good book that covers both the theory as well as teaches the practical meditations on the topic of the 1st jhana and it's 5 hindrances?
Hi fluXx,I'm just studying the suttas,I've meditated for about 6 years,last year I found an American monk who has practiced in Thailand for about 35 years,he thought me a lot of things and best of all he teaches you what u need to know without all the bullshit that I've learned in the 6 years I've found I had to unlearn it all and start again,If you wish I could get you in contact with him,he teaches from Skype and it's totally free,that's how you know it's the real mc coy lol,PaulSent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
What troubles me with meditation is the quietness. It brings all the sensations of anxiety, scary thoughts, restlessness of the mind and pain in the body much more to the front. There's no way to escape from them anymore. I guess that's the point of it all, but it makes me uncomfortable.
Quote from: lucid365 on May 01, 2018, 06:12:00 amHi fluXx,I'm just studying the suttas,I've meditated for about 6 years,last year I found an American monk who has practiced in Thailand for about 35 years,he thought me a lot of things and best of all he teaches you what u need to know without all the bullshit that I've learned in the 6 years I've found I had to unlearn it all and start again,If you wish I could get you in contact with him,he teaches from Skype and it's totally free,that's how you know it's the real mc coy lol,PaulSent from my SM-N910F using TapatalkHi Paul,That's a really interesting way to receive the teachings.I'd like to find someone like him too.Do you know if he takes up new students?Any Buddhist teaching center is quite far away for me and difficult to combine with my daily work.
Last night I was listening to Fred Davis on non dualism and the absence of the character or ego.At the same time my 2 year old daughter was playing beside me.I felt that a few things he said started to make a bit of sense until I was overwhelmed by a strong fear.I looked at my little girl and I noticed how afraid I was of losing her and along all that I love. That because I may realise that none of us actually exist.I feel how much I am attached to my girl, my wife, my parents and so on. I don't want to lose them even if their existence as an objecive human being is only an illusion.I wouldn't mind having to lose any object, but not my loved ones. This feels really painful.
Another question I have:How can I continue to love them if they're not really existing in the way I have always taken for granted?
A last question.What is morality?If there is no such thing as good and evil, why should we act in a way that doesn't cause suffering?Why are buddhists always so kind and caring for everything if there is no good or bad.What makes them act in ways that doesn't cause suffering? What is the motivation for that?
I started out this topic asking 2 or 3 questions, but while I was writing them down I realised things which in turn brought many new questions.I'm sorry for this long rant. I would want to split it up in different topics, but it's all so connected for me that I don't know where to split.
First I must say that I suffer from depression.
I'm afraid of death and isolation..
Even before this depression I remember myself as a young kid asking questions of an existential nature. For example around the age of five I asked my mom "why do we live?" and I asked my dad "if the universe began with the big bang, what was there before that?" Each time I asked these kind of questions I felt strong anxiety coming over me, but I had no idea why that was.
My young life wasn't always full of anxiety and depression. I remember many moments of great joy and magic.A kind of magic that is lost to me now and where I desperately yearn for.
I just really want to be happy again.