Author Topic: On the impossibility of eating meat  (Read 4022 times)

Offline Dairy Lama

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Re: On the impossibility of eating meat
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2018, 02:02:40 am »
I think that people who eat meat and who claim to have some regard for the lives of animals are fundamentally dishonest. They don't give a flying duck for other beings, and are only interested in satisfying their own hungers.

I have a problem with Buddhists who claim to be developing compassion but still buy meat - apparently their compassion doesn't extend to cows and pigs.
"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream"

Offline Lotusmile

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Re: On the impossibility of eating meat
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2018, 02:12:47 am »
I think that people who eat meat and who claim to have some regard for the lives of animals are fundamentally dishonest. They don't give a flying duck for other beings, and are only interested in satisfying their own hungers.

I have a problem with Buddhists who claim to be developing compassion but still buy meat - apparently their compassion doesn't extend to cows and pigs.

Well mentioned!
But without the first step to explore buddhism teaching, they will not be able to agree with your kindness and follow it eventually.

Offline stillpointdancer

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Re: On the impossibility of eating meat
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2018, 02:40:23 am »
Linking Buddhism with veganism misses the point really. If you think you have to eat meat or don't have to eat meat to follow the path then you have misunderstood Buddhism. Don't forget that Tibetan Buddhism, in a location where there simply wasn't room for growing enough plants, wasn't vegan.
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

Offline Lotusmile

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Re: On the impossibility of eating meat
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2018, 02:54:02 am »
Need not buddhism to elaborate on compassion towards living beings.
Simple logic is that if you use a knife to cut your hand and feel pain, it means that animals also treasure their life as much as you do

Offline Lotusmile

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Re: On the impossibility of eating meat
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2018, 02:56:21 am »
Linking Buddhism with veganism misses the point really. If you think you have to eat meat or don't have to eat meat to follow the path then you have misunderstood Buddhism. Don't forget that Tibetan Buddhism, in a location where there simply wasn't room for growing enough plants, wasn't vegan.
That was the old day where transportation was not available. Modern day of now, vegetables are transported to location of Tibetan Buddhism

Offline Lotusmile

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On the impossibility of eating meat
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2018, 03:15:48 am »
Linking Buddhism with veganism misses the point really. If you think you have to eat meat or don't have to eat meat to follow the path then you have misunderstood Buddhism. Don't forget that Tibetan Buddhism, in a location where there simply wasn't room for growing enough plants, wasn't vegan.
That was the old day where transportation was not available. Modern day of now, vegetables are transported to location of Tibetan Buddhism
In addition, Tibetan masters in those day were extremely high practitioners, and before the animals were eaten, these masters would meditate for the animals to be liberated to heaven. These masters surely knew animals were like them having buddha nature ought to be compassionately respected, but in those days and circumstances presented that it was also the sacrifice of animals for Tibetan buddhism to flourish

Offline Lotusmile

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Re: On the impossibility of eating meat
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2018, 03:21:13 am »
For vegetarianism and veganism who feel that they will embrace buddhism if buddhists they seen are like them (vegetarian or vegan) then they are not genuinely seeking to be liberated from karmic cycle of suffering but exploiting buddhism compassion for their cause only

Offline stillpointdancer

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Re: On the impossibility of eating meat
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2018, 04:01:52 am »
For vegetarianism and veganism who feel that they will embrace buddhism if buddhists they seen are like them (vegetarian or vegan) then they are not genuinely seeking to be liberated from karmic cycle of suffering but exploiting buddhism compassion for their cause only
Yes, although I was saying that the reverse also holds, that you don't have to be a vegan to be a Buddhist.
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

Offline Dairy Lama

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Re: On the impossibility of eating meat
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2018, 06:25:30 am »
Linking Buddhism with veganism misses the point really. If you think you have to eat meat or don't have to eat meat to follow the path then you have misunderstood Buddhism. Don't forget that Tibetan Buddhism, in a location where there simply wasn't room for growing enough plants, wasn't vegan.

Hmm.  When I was involved in Tibetan Buddhism there were some people who liked their meat but felt slightly guilty about it.  So they would justify their dietary choice by saying how it was very mountainous in Tibet, and difficult to grow crops.  I would remind them that we were living in England, and that locally there were supermarkets with a wide range of non-meat products. 

I agree that you don't have to be a vegetarian or vegan to practice Buddhism.  But I also think that Buddhist practice increases our awareness of what is skillful and unskillful, in terms of behaviour.  "Unskillful" here includes behaviour that harms ourselves or other beings, including animals killed for food.   
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Offline Dairy Lama

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Re: On the impossibility of eating meat
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2018, 06:28:20 am »
In addition, Tibetan masters in those day were extremely high practitioners, and before the animals were eaten, these masters would meditate for the animals to be liberated to heaven. These masters surely knew animals were like them having buddha nature ought to be compassionately respected, but in those days and circumstances presented that it was also the sacrifice of animals for Tibetan buddhism to flourish

I'm afraid I have never found this approach convincing.  If you really think an animal has Buddha nature, then wouldn't it be better not to kill it in the first place?
"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream"

Offline Dairy Lama

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Re: On the impossibility of eating meat
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2018, 06:34:59 am »
For vegetarianism and veganism who feel that they will embrace buddhism if buddhists they seen are like them (vegetarian or vegan) then they are not genuinely seeking to be liberated from karmic cycle of suffering but exploiting buddhism compassion for their cause only

"Exploiting compassion"?  What an odd concept.   :wink1:
"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream"

Offline stillpointdancer

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Re: On the impossibility of eating meat
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2018, 07:35:04 am »
I'm quite happy to be meat free, but it's nothing to do with the Buddhism I practice, it's more about eating low in the food chain for the good of the planet. However, as a Buddhist I don't like the thought of eating plants or fungi either, as they are living things too. If anything has Buddha nature, they do too. If anything suffers, they do too. When I walk into a supermarket I see not only dead animal stuff, for which it is too late, but living plants which could be replanted and carry on living. I don't hear too many Buddhists showing any care for them.
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

Offline Dharma Flower

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Re: On the impossibility of eating meat
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2018, 11:12:02 pm »
While vegetarianism is a noble lifestyle choice, is there a way we can reduce the cruelty and environmental destruction of the livestock industry without insisting for the general population to give up meat entirely?

If humans are natural omnivores, would we lack compassion for our fellow human beings by insisting for others to give up meat entirely? These are honest questions without easy answers.

How Humans Evolved To Be Natural Omnivores
https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2016/12/23/how-humans-evolved-to-be-natural-omnivores/#57025d847af5

Offline Dairy Lama

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Re: On the impossibility of eating meat
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2018, 01:16:40 am »
I'm quite happy to be meat free, but it's nothing to do with the Buddhism I practice, it's more about eating low in the food chain for the good of the planet. However, as a Buddhist I don't like the thought of eating plants or fungi either, as they are living things too. If anything has Buddha nature, they do too. If anything suffers, they do too. When I walk into a supermarket I see not only dead animal stuff, for which it is too late, but living plants which could be replanted and carry on living. I don't hear too many Buddhists showing any care for them.

To experience pain an organism needs a central nervous system, and pain receptors.  Cows and pigs have these, while plants do not.  So not buying meat seems like an effective way of minimising the pain and harm we cause with our dietary choices. 
Also most livestock is fed on grain, and growing these crops kills lots of small creatures - many more than if you just fed people with the grain, since it's a very inefficient food chain.

The plant argument is a familiar straw-man in these discussions.   I think the basic issue here is that some people like their meat, they are quite attached to it and don't want to give it up.  So they try to rationalise their choice to buy meat with hollow arguments, conveniently ignoring Buddhist practices like developing compassion and harmlessness, practising Right Intention, the implications of the first precept, Right Livelihood, etc.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 02:35:04 am by Dairy Lama »
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Offline Lotusmile

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Re: On the impossibility of eating meat
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2018, 01:41:35 am »
While vegetarianism is a noble lifestyle choice, is there a way we can reduce the cruelty and environmental destruction of the livestock industry without insisting for the general population to give up meat entirely?

If humans are natural omnivores, would we lack compassion for our fellow human beings by insisting for others to give up meat entirely? These are honest questions without easy answers.

How Humans Evolved To Be Natural Omnivores
https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2016/12/23/how-humans-evolved-to-be-natural-omnivores/#57025d847af5
Human is born to be a vegetarianism. Baby will suffer or die if they were to be fed with meat. The teeth and intestines of human is not meant for meat. According to buddhism, the living being labelled as human has cruelly intruded the common space of another living beings labelled as animals. This cruel attack from ignorance over thousands of years caused and aggravated personal issues and world issues. The only way is through proper education of ones’ love or living beings’ love is equal

 


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