Author Topic: The Second Noble Truth: The cause of suffering is craving? Is that all?  (Read 3091 times)

Offline Anemephistus

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Re: The Second Noble Truth: The cause of suffering is craving? Is that all?
« Reply #60 on: January 30, 2018, 09:54:43 pm »
I am also curious as to the question from DL directed at the OP :
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"The Second Noble Truth basically says that dukkha results from reacting to experience with craving ( wanting ) and aversion ( not wanting ), rather than with equanimity."  Agree?  Disagree?


Offline Ron-the-Elder

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Re: The Second Noble Truth: The cause of suffering is craving? Is that all?
« Reply #61 on: February 04, 2018, 06:04:58 am »
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Anemephistus:  I am also curious as to the question from DL directed at the OP :

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DL:  "The Second Noble Truth basically says that dukkha results from reacting to experience with craving ( wanting ) and aversion ( not wanting ), rather than with equanimity."  Agree?  Disagree?

My take, primarily due to study and personal experience,  is that all manner of clinging inevitably leads to dukkha due to ignorance of the underlying cause: "impermanence".  In short, no matter what we "wish" or "want" to remain as is (status quo), will end, deteriorate, corrupt, or change.  This reality of life has not changed for me in any circumstance I can remember during my last seventy-three and seven twelfths years. 

My personal experience has been:  "All things arise, dwell for but a time, and eventually pass away."

Ironically,  the only thing that never seems to change is "impermanence".

Therefore, IMHO, it is "ignorance" of this fact which leads to suffering, because when we don't realize this we cling to what is impermanent.  :dharma:
« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 07:38:32 am by Ron-the-Elder »
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Offline Empty13

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Re: The Second Noble Truth: The cause of suffering is craving? Is that all?
« Reply #62 on: February 13, 2018, 01:03:04 pm »
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"And this, monks is the noble truth of the origination of dukkha: the craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual pleasure, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming."

— SN 56.11

How does craving cause physical suffering? For the mental suffering, I can understand that if there's nothing to crave for, there won't be dissatisfaction, stress, anxiety, fear, the fire of desires... But suffering isn't just mental. What's the connection between physical suffering - birth, death, aging, illness - and craving?

Have you thought to look at what some well-known teachers have to say on the matter?  While they may be teaching on the 4NT, they may also be using different source materials (translations, etc) and different perspectives which will bring with it different insights that may offer better answers to your questions.

In addition I would disregard what VR wrote:

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There is no such thing as physical suffering.

This is dismissive of your question as well as, relatively speaking, innacurate, or just plain wrong.

Relatively speaking there is physical pain.  As in the example I presented to VR, the physical pain you experience is very real.  Now, your question is about craving being a cause of physical pain, is kinda tricky.  Slamming a door on your fingers may not be the result of craving - I mean, who actually craves having a door slammed on their fingers.  No one I know.  In the other hand there is, without a doubt, serious aversion to having a door slam on your fingers.  IN the parlance of the Dharma, craving and aversion are opposite extremes.  Some philosophical schools within the Mahayana would on that basis see them as the same thing.  Still, in practical terms it's nearly impossible to see craving/aversion as the cause of physical pain.  You can, however see attachment to craving/aversion to pain - yes some people are really into physical pain - will give rise to dukkha.

So physical pain isn't caused by craving.  Pain is caused by painful experiences, like slamming a door on your fingers, a dry socket, a burst appendix, passing a kidney stone or reading ground's egregious nonsense.  It's very real, too.  If you don't think so, let me introduce you to my first wife.

This made me chuckle, thank you.  :cheesy:

Offline Dairy Lama

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Re: The Second Noble Truth: The cause of suffering is craving? Is that all?
« Reply #63 on: February 20, 2018, 03:19:21 am »
Ironically,  the only thing that never seems to change is "impermanence".

Impermanence ends for us when we snuff it of course.   :wink1:
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Offline Lotusmile

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Re: The Second Noble Truth: The cause of suffering is craving? Is that all?
« Reply #64 on: April 03, 2018, 03:37:28 am »
As far as earth is concerned, if any living beings don’t age or die on earth, the that part of earth would be solely covered by this living beings. Earth also will “die” and form again unless all beings enlightened. Even formless Heavenly beings having extremely long lifespan will “die”. Arhat will “die” as well when they become buddha, the dieless

 


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