Author Topic: The Second Noble Truth: The cause of suffering is craving? Is that all?  (Read 744 times)

Offline BlackLooter

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Re: The Second Noble Truth: The cause of suffering is craving? Is that all?
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2018, 08:37:06 pm »
 :r4wheel:

Could the cause of suffering just be getting or experiencing things that we don't want or otherwise not fitting our expectations?
All the Girls and Spacemen will have a monkey on my back before I Attack, I do Shaolin, and Wing From Gui..the meaning of life is backwards and so are you!

Offline Spiny Norman

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Re: The Second Noble Truth: The cause of suffering is craving? Is that all?
« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2018, 05:01:58 am »
:r4wheel:
Could the cause of suffering just be getting or experiencing things that we don't want or otherwise not fitting our expectations?

Yes. You could say that it is reacting to experience with craving ( wanting ) and aversion ( not wanting ), rather than with equanimity.

Offline Shogun

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Re: The Second Noble Truth: The cause of suffering is craving? Is that all?
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2018, 12:05:04 pm »
:r4wheel:

Could the cause of suffering just be getting or experiencing things that we don't want or otherwise not fitting our expectations?
Id say youre on the right track.  Thats kind of the meaning of, "form is emptiness and emptiness is form."  Much of the meaning of our perceptions is the meaning that we put on it.

Offline VincentRJ

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Re: The Second Noble Truth: The cause of suffering is craving? Is that all?
« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2018, 09:06:23 pm »
There is no such thing as physical suffering. You seem to take one misunderstanding & then apply it to something as straightforward as the 2nd noble truth to create another misunderstanding. Birth , death, aging & illness are self-views. They mean "I was born, I am sick, I am old, I will die, my mother, father, son , daughter have died"". These self-views arise from craving that leads to new becoming. For suffering to arise, two things are required, namely, craving & self-view becoming. The suttas say:
Quote

The tides of conceiving do not sweep over one who stands upon these foundations, and when the tides of conceiving no longer sweep over him he is called a sage at peace.’ So it was said. And with reference to what was this said?

“Bhikkhu, ‘I am’ is a conceiving; ‘I am this’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall not be’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be possessed of form’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be formless’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be percipient’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be non-percipient’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be neither-percipient-nor-non-percipient’ is a conceiving. Conceiving is a disease, conceiving is a tumour, conceiving is a dart. By overcoming all conceivings, bhikkhu, one is called a sage at peace. And the sage at peace is not born, does not age, does not die; he is not shaken and does not yearn. For there is nothing present in him by which he might be born. Not being born, how could he age? Not ageing, how could he die? Not dying, how could he be shaken? Not being shaken, why should he yearn?

“So it was with reference to this that it was said: ‘The tides of conceiving do not sweep over one who stands upon these foundations, and when the tides of conceiving no longer sweep over him he is called a sage at peace.’

https://suttacentral.net/en/mn140

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All suffering is experienced in the mind whatever the cause. VR is correct, in a pedantic sense, when he writes that there is no such thing as physical suffering. However, most of us understand that the term 'physical suffering' implies that the cause of the suffering relates to some type of physical damage to the body, whether broken bone, flesh wound or illness.

This type of suffering, or experience of pain with a physical cause relating to the body, is necessary for survival. It represents a very clear and unambiguous message that something is wrong and needs attending to.

Imagine if you were to sprain your ankle without feeling any pain. How would you know that your ankle was sprained? One can still walk with a sprained ankle, but one tends to walk carefully in a manner which minimizes the pain. Imagine what might happen if you were to continue walking, running or jumping around because you were not aware your ankle was sprained, because you didn't feel any pain. I think you would soon have a broken ankle and wouldn't be able to walk at all.

Nevertheless, whatever the cause of the pain or suffering, advanced Buddhist practices should enable one to reduce it, or avoid it, and in some cases eliminate it, depending on one's state of progress towards full enlightenment.

I imagine that someone who has reached a very advanced stage of control over all thoughts and mental processes, and who fully realizes that the 'self' is an illusion, should be able to visit a dentist for a tooth extraction without the need of a local anesthetic, and even endure a major surgical operation in hospital without the need of any anesthetics.

 


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