Author Topic: The seven bounds of sexuality and the Holly Live (Brahmacariya)  (Read 379 times)

Offline Samana Johann

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The seven bounds of sexuality and the Holly Live (Brahmacariya)
« on: September 06, 2017, 02:01:52 am »
Quote
Methuna Sutta: The Discourse on Coupling

Introduction   

1. BONDS OF SEXUALITY The Methuna Sutta is a definitive statement on the early Buddhist concep-tion of the “holy life” (brahmacariya). Although brahmacariya is often translated as “celibacy,” this is only one aspect of the holy life. Central as celibacy may be to the holy life, there are other even more vital aspects, and these are listed in the sutta as the abstaining from these 7 “bonds of sexuality” (methuna-saṁyoga):

(1) enjoying physical contact;  :grouphug:
(2) socializing (especially for the sake of entertainment);[1]  :gawrsh:  :jinsyx: :namaste:
(3) lusting after the physical form;  :listen:  :reading:  :curtain:
(4) distracted by pleasurable sounds;  :nopity:
(5) delighting in frivolities with others;  :lmfao: :teehee:
(6) approving of others indulging in physical pleasures; and  :D
(7) living the holy life for the sake of going to heaven.  :fu:  :om:

These 7 “bonds of sexuality” are so called because they still bind us to thinking about sexuality and sense-pleasures even though externally there is a façade of sexual abstinence and austerity.

(Note that the layman section was edited an added after my person asked after this work, since old was obiviously written before his intimate love to his wife. It counts, (see 8 precepts) for lay people as well and it is of course possible to live as lay person the Holly life as well. It's actually a prerequisite for any successful meditation practice. Older original, that included no fear for loosing partners and bounds, can be downloaded here)


To quote Element with edits in {}:


{The} most important precept is {also} the 3rd precept about sexual misconduct {abstain totally when yogi, 8 precepts}. If this isn't sorted out clearly in the mind, little real progress will be made with meditation because hindrances won't cease.

When sex is straightened out, drugs & alcohol will fall away. {Since ways to gain all levels of sex easier}

Because Buddhist teacher$ are interested in building as many follower$ as po$$ible, they treat the {most also} important precept as the least important precept.

:twocents: $
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Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: The seven bounds of sexuality and the Holly Live (Brahmacariya)
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2017, 12:47:13 pm »
...Buddhist concep-tion of the “holy life” (brahmacariya). Although brahmacariya is often translated as “celibacy,” this is only one aspect of the holy life....

The fact that the holy life uses the term of celibacy, namely, "brahmacariya", shows the 3rd precept is the most important precept because the 3rd precept not only sorts out hindrances to meditation but determines true love & compassion.

As for the Methuna Sutta, it is over-stepping the requirements for the 3rd precept. The 3rd precept simply requires wisdom of non-harming & benefit for others.

 :namaste:

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: The seven bounds of sexuality and the Holly Live (Brahmacariya)
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2017, 04:11:21 pm »
Reaction as expected..., Element gave place to expain missunderstandings further.

There is a different between precepts and kamma, just for the case that such is not seen. Kamma works universal, precepts are merely outwardly conventions, as discussed but not really understood here. For their deeper meanig to understand is of course not easy for one who clings to lower fetters but such good and detail explaining migh help a little to understand the meaning of the fetter rites and rituals. Othwardly doing and having already access to ones mind states, perceive intentions as they are, without building ideas and its rituals around.

It's of course importand, to overcome all boards of sexuallity, since desire for it (becoming here strong, and sensuality) are the reasons for most other misstakes. Thoght of how many wars have been leaded for that reason in the past from kings. And yes, its a hinderence for meditation but maybe not so bigger as ill-will or doubt, not to speak of even subtil remorse but for example steady telling opinions aside truth and need to justify them to fall not down.

The third precept, different within 5 or 3 Silas

Within the five (for wordlings and those not eager striving, possible till 2. Path): Kamesu micchacara veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual misconduct.

Meanig to do not harm in sensual lust (in flesh)

The third in the eight (for yogis, people after the second fruit, serious practicing people):
Abrahmacariya veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual activity.

Covers of course all aspects of the Methuna Suttas pointing out.

As one monk thought, since it was said that lay people, having sensual pleasures, it is ok to enjoy them as well, at least they do not harm outwardy or other directly, might not bring problems in a certain sociaty, the Buddha answered clear with (you useless person) to make the "emptiness"-excuse invalid displayed:

Quote
“Indeed monks, it is impossible that one can indulge in sensual pleasures without sensual desires, without the perception of sensual desire, without the thought of sensual desire!”

(M 22.9/1:133) = SD 13


As Element, David, sad on other place, people who advocate sexuallity in hide certain truth around it, have their reasons to attract many follower, reputations, gain and usuall use  :namaste: such also, as means for socializing to win the favor of those more happy with half truth for sake of sensuality and becomming.

One note again on precepts like known as "rules", they are outwardly means. Its not possible to easy judge unskilfullnes that is like presented in the Sutta not visible, even not for one self witg untrained mind, empty of discerment and knowledge in regard of proper attention.

So here another big gross working field, if one does not simple like to get around by denying facts but seeks for friends to pursuit his ideas of social changes, like good explained here.

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Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: The seven bounds of sexuality and the Holly Live (Brahmacariya)
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2017, 05:48:41 pm »
Reaction as expected...

The suttas say 1st method of purity is to view women as mother, sister, daughter.

Quote
Kamma works universal, precepts are merely outwardly conventions,

This is wrong. Even if it is not wrong, it is Johann stuck in rules & precepts.

Quote
It's of course importand, to overcome all boards of sexuallity, since desire for it (becoming here strong, and sensuality) are the reasons for most other misstakes. Thoght of how many wars have been leaded for that reason in the past from kings. And yes, its a hinderence for meditation but maybe not so bigger as ill-will or doubt, not to speak of even subtil remorse but for example steady telling opinions aside truth and need to justify them to fall not down.

 :nopity:

Quote
I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual activity.

This is only for people who are able to.

Quote
Covers of course all aspects of the Methuna Suttas pointing out.

Methuna Sutta is for those without metta & dispassion. I see half naked women all the time. I walk into houses of women dressed in bikini & underwear, who hug & kiss me (on the cheek). I have been celibate for so many years. I have metta, compassion & dispassion towards women. I don't need any rules like Johann.

Quote
“Indeed monks, it is impossible that one can indulge in sensual pleasures without sensual desires, without the perception of sensual desire, without the thought of sensual desire!”

(M 22.9/1:133) = SD 13

 :nopity: :horse: :taz: :argue: :wave: :buggin:


Offline Samana Johann

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Re: The seven bounds of sexuality and the Holly Live (Brahmacariya)
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2017, 10:45:08 am »
Well, with that many abuse everyday and all kinds of more subtile kinds a sexuallity it is understandable that there is less need on the grossest form, yet even still on a level of breaking the 3rd within the frame of the five,four gross unskillful, downleading in the sphere of mind and more subtil spheres. That is what is meant by beyound rites and conduct, not being unaware of all unskillful actions from killing, stealing and especially indoxicating.

But my person guesses that all trains have already left the station in regard of serious investing effort be of worth here. Especially a complete inhonest nature will always reject what actually not capable to.

Sexuall abuse means to go into the sphere of others with the intent to either simply harm or to have his enjoyment with overstepping onother one sphere and not a little thought of if such is harmful, of no benefit for the other ...and so on. Some even make such for the sake of becoming, liking others be pregnant. Here not beyound, not even thinking that it would be good, what meaning would have a more subtile discussion on what Brahmacariya means.
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Offline ground

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Re: The seven bounds of sexuality and the Holly Live (Brahmacariya)
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2017, 01:31:33 pm »
Obviously this is a thread for sexuality experts.  :teehee:

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: The seven bounds of sexuality and the Holly Live (Brahmacariya)
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2017, 06:24:33 pm »
Obviously this is a thread for sexuality experts.  :teehee:
Actual if not being, how to penetrate and abound it in all its notion, gross and subtil? The Buddha was an expert on it.

(And yes, Ground is welcome to join this "sexual" intermezzo, with out the need to makehim sexual attractive by  :teehee: and basicly no fear that he would abuse sexual, even he might tend to do.
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Offline ground

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Re: The seven bounds of sexuality and the Holly Live (Brahmacariya)
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2017, 01:45:16 am »
I can fully understand why monks and samanas may get obsessed with sexuality.  :wink1:

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: The seven bounds of sexuality and the Holly Live (Brahmacariya)
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2017, 06:06:37 am »
My person too, like householder having found that more subtil forms of sex are proper replacement.

If sensual desire is not penetrated, celebrity (outwardly, by rites and rituals trained) let appear aversion and abuse quick.

That's why people, householder, often say: "he lacks of sex". (Sensual pleasure with all six sense "best" involved).

Maybe my person finds time and effort to sort out a kind of overview in regard of the forms of sex (desire for becoming, being), precepts and attainings. Lets see.

Such also can be easily a Form of subtile sex, if not undefiled intended and having dust in the eyes so that it needs and desires to blink all the time.
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