Author Topic: Wanting and self  (Read 490 times)

Offline bahman

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Wanting and self
« on: April 23, 2017, 12:27:03 pm »
 How could we want something if there is no self?

Offline popsthebuilder

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Re: Wanting and self
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2017, 12:32:16 pm »
How could we want something if there is no self?
Self isn't an illusion so much as an obsession.

Breaking free from the wants of the self empties ones vessel allowing for the filling by the Self that is not of your own wants.

Learn to spot your wants and seek out the motives for them. Go from there.

peace

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Offline popsthebuilder

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Re: Wanting and self
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2017, 12:33:29 pm »
Please forgive my intrusion.

I did not realize I was in this forum before I posted.

I meant no disrespect whatsoever towards the precepts of Buddhism.

peace

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Online IdleChater

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Re: Wanting and self
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2017, 05:15:04 pm »
How could we want something if there is no self?

There is a concept called the "Two Truths" - relative and ultimate.  Ultimate Truth is emptiness.  Relative truth is everything else.

When you experience desire (wanting something) this is an example of the relative. Relatively speaking, it is real.  The ultimate truth is that the desire and the object of desire is emptty of inherent existence.

Offline BlackLooter

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Re: Wanting and self
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2017, 03:23:16 am »
So the no self..

Which is a part of something or not?

In existence there are various things..

So we can therefore say that there is a no self..and a self...

its up to you to seek either of these things..

But when you don't seek specifically non self..the non self therefore exists..
All the Girls and Spacemen will have a monkey on my back before I Attack, I do Shaolin, and Wing From Gui..the meaning of life is backwards and so are you!

Offline bahman

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Re: Wanting and self
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2017, 11:04:59 am »
How could we want something if there is no self?

There is a concept called the "Two Truths" - relative and ultimate.  Ultimate Truth is emptiness.  Relative truth is everything else.

When you experience desire (wanting something) this is an example of the relative. Relatively speaking, it is real.  The ultimate truth is that the desire and the object of desire is emptty of inherent existence.

 I was not talking about desire. I was talking about a situation that you could do this or that and choose one because you want it.

Online IdleChater

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Re: Wanting and self
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2017, 08:35:13 am »
How could we want something if there is no self?

There is a concept called the "Two Truths" - relative and ultimate.  Ultimate Truth is emptiness.  Relative truth is everything else.

When you experience desire (wanting something) this is an example of the relative. Relatively speaking, it is real.  The ultimate truth is that the desire and the object of desire is emptty of inherent existence.


 I was not talking about desire. I was talking about a situation that you could do this or that and choose one because you want it.

If you "wants" something, you "desire" it.  Right?

Offline bahman

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Re: Wanting and self
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2017, 08:39:06 am »
How could we want something if there is no self?

There is a concept called the "Two Truths" - relative and ultimate.  Ultimate Truth is emptiness.  Relative truth is everything else.

When you experience desire (wanting something) this is an example of the relative. Relatively speaking, it is real.  The ultimate truth is that the desire and the object of desire is emptty of inherent existence.


 I was not talking about desire. I was talking about a situation that you could do this or that and choose one because you want it.

If you "wants" something, you "desire" it.  Right?

 No, you could want something you don't desire.

Online IdleChater

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Re: Wanting and self
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2017, 08:41:10 am »
So the no self..

Which is a part of something or not?

If there there is no self, then there can be no other.  There is no thing that a "no self" can be a part of

Quote
In existence there are various things..

So we can therefore say that there is a no self..and a self...

its up to you to seek either of these things..

But when you don't seek specifically non self..the non self therefore exists..

I think you're putting way too much thought into this.  Seriously.

Try reading Khenpo Rinpoche's Progressive Stages of Meditation on Emptiness

Online IdleChater

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Re: Wanting and self
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2017, 08:42:06 am »

 No, you could want something you don't desire.
Example?

definitions:
Want: a desire for something
Desire: strongly wish for or want


you can look that up for yourself.

want & desire are the same thing.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 09:12:08 am by IdleChater »

Offline bahman

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Re: Wanting and self
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2017, 10:04:28 am »

 No, you could want something you don't desire.
Example?

definitions:
Want: a desire for something
Desire: strongly wish for or want


you can look that up for yourself.

want & desire are the same thing.

I define want as following: ability to choose something independent of internal (desire) or external (social force) bias.

 I desire for X and not Y. Do you want to see that I can choose Y? Of course I can want Y.

Online IdleChater

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Re: Wanting and self
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2017, 10:35:58 am »
I define want as following: ability to choose something independent of internal (desire) or external (social force) bias.


Ok.

If you're going to redefine words in common use to something not in line with accepted definition, you should state that right off the bat.  Otherwise, nobody will know what you're talking about.  :brick:

Offline VincentRJ

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Re: Wanting and self
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2017, 05:55:13 pm »
I define want as following: ability to choose something independent of internal (desire) or external (social force) bias.

I desire for X and not Y. Do you want to see that I can choose Y? Of course I can want Y.

This is an example of the lack of precision in the meaning of common words. It can cause confusion and contradictions.

'Desire' can be a stronger word than 'want' depending on the context. Desire is associated with 'sexual wants'. Sex is fundamentally important to human existence. No sex, no propagation of life.

Desire is more directly associated with pleasure of the senses. For example, if I were to say that I desire to achieve a state of Nirvana, that would be a complete contradiction because the state of Nirvana is a state of cessation of all desires.

However, if I were to say that I want to achieve a state of Nirvana, that implies more of a motivation than a desire.

From a deep Freudian perspective, perhaps it is true that all desires, wants and motivations are fundamentally based upon the sexual drive, which I presume the state of Nirvana transcends, so there is still a contradiction whichever of the two words one uses.

Offline francis

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Re: Wanting and self
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2017, 01:26:52 am »
I’m pretty sure that desire, from a Buddhist perspective, would mean craving (taṇha), thirst, desire or wish.

This is very important because as human beings we have only three feelings (vedana).  They are pleasant feelings, unpleasant feelings, or neutral feelings that are neither pleasant nor unpleasant.

As human beings we crave things that make us feel good, however it doesn’t matter how much stuff we have, our craving only leads to more cravings. 

If we look at the 12 links of the Nidana chain, the link between vedana (feelings) and tanha (thirst or craving) is especially important because it is one of the links that can be broken and lead us away from cyclic existence.
"Enlightenment, for a wave in the ocean, is the moment the wave realises it is water." - Thich Nhat Hanh

Offline VincentRJ

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Re: Wanting and self
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2017, 05:10:33 am »
This is very important because as human beings we have only three feelings (vedana)[/url].  They are pleasant feelings, unpleasant feelings, or neutral feelings that are neither pleasant nor unpleasant.

Francis,
This is not logical or reasonable. It's like describing temperatures in three categories of cold, warm, and hot.
Degrees of pleasantness, joy or sufering are like degrees on a thermometer. They vary by gradual amounts.

 


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