Author Topic: What is the cause of the impermanence?  (Read 1353 times)

Offline IdleChater

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Re: What is the cause of the impermanence?
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2018, 03:57:09 am »
I don't think change is quite right.  "Change" implies continuity.  Something can change but still retain a certain unchanging essence. 

I agree that "change" implies continuity, but I don't understand how it implies an unchanging essence.


I see it like an old-school cell animation.  In that, thousands of "cells", each holding a separate and distinct image, are played in succession to provide the illusion of continuity and change.  In reality one of these cells arises and almost immediately ceases.  The next image is entire new and separate from the previous.  It is only the illusion that provides change.  Actually there is no change, just the constant arising and ceasing of images.

So it is with life.

So there is niether change or changeless, just arising and cessation.

It may seem to you that this is change - one thing blending, or transitioning to the next.  It works on an intellectual level and offers a satisfactory explanation and example for impermanence.  It just doesn't work right for me.

LATER:  That didn't really address the unchanging essense.  Where I think it does, is in that the "narrative" seems to have an element of unchanging.  The players and the scenes may "change" but the narrative remains largely the same, so in effect, and to a degree, everything in it does, too.

It's the impermanence of what we percieve or what appears that is important and that isn't change.  It just ceases and is replaced by another arising.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 09:01:34 am by IdleChater »

Offline Ron-the-Elder

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Re: What is the cause of the impermanence?
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2018, 08:24:33 pm »
Hi, Idle.

Your description of arising and ceasing is from my perspective and experience a good one to explain life processes.  It is an almost perfect description of the way things work from a modern biological sciences understanding.  Form and function are driven by genetics:  e.g. DNA makes RNA, RNA makes protein at the bio-molecular level and genotypical changes result in changes in phenotype. Higher level change is driven by ability to survive through adaptation under and in response to the influences of changing environmental variations such as temperature, pressure, climate, biome and such relationships as between predator, prey, and nutritional pressures as they evolve over time due to natural variation within ecosystems, such as geophysical changes, and climate augmentation (droughts, floods, heat waves, cooling, geological changes due to plate tectonics, astrophysical events, extinction events, and etc .  Failure of life in any given biome or ecosystem to adapt to such change results in extinction and niches being occupied by more qualified living organisms.  Proof of this is in the fact that over ninety percent of all organisms that have ever lived are now extinct.  Additional proof is in the fact that there have been many periodic mass extinction events due to astrophysical, and biological disasters.

Mass Extinction Events https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_event

Predator & Prey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predation

Plate Tectonics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_tectonics

Biomes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biome

Astrophysical Events https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transient_astronomical_event

All of these contribute to impermanence of not only life on this planet, but impermanence throughout the universe including all samsaric realms.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 08:48:53 pm by Ron-the-Elder »
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Offline Dairy Lama

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Re: What is the cause of the impermanence?
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2018, 04:12:16 am »
It's the impermanence of what we percieve or what appears that is important and that isn't change.  It just ceases and is replaced by another arising.

Indeed, and arising and ceasing is the nature of the aggregates, aka our experience.
"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream"

Offline IdleChater

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Re: What is the cause of the impermanence?
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2018, 09:20:50 am »
Many thanks, Ron.

And thanks for the science lesson, but I really think the Buddha's teachings on impermanence and suffering have anything to say about plate techtonics and that sort of thing.

Hi, Idle.

Your description of arising and ceasing is from my perspective and experience a good one to explain life processes.  It is an almost perfect description of the way things work from a modern biological sciences understanding.  Form and function are driven by genetics:  e.g. DNA makes RNA, RNA makes protein at the bio-molecular level and genotypical changes result in changes in phenotype. Higher level change is driven by ability to survive through adaptation under and in response to the influences of changing environmental variations such as temperature, pressure, climate, biome and such relationships as between predator, prey, and nutritional pressures as they evolve over time due to natural variation within ecosystems, such as geophysical changes, and climate augmentation (droughts, floods, heat waves, cooling, geological changes due to plate tectonics, astrophysical events, extinction events, and etc .  Failure of life in any given biome or ecosystem to adapt to such change results in extinction and niches being occupied by more qualified living organisms.  Proof of this is in the fact that over ninety percent of all organisms that have ever lived are now extinct.  Additional proof is in the fact that there have been many periodic mass extinction events due to astrophysical, and biological disasters.

Mass Extinction Events https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_event

Predator & Prey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predation

Plate Tectonics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_tectonics

Biomes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biome

Astrophysical Events https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transient_astronomical_event

All of these contribute to impermanence of not only life on this planet, but impermanence throughout the universe including all samsaric realms.

Offline outdoorsjp

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Re: What is the cause of the impermanence?
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2018, 12:41:00 pm »
Look at gnosticteachings.org they have tons of information on Buddhism in a series called Gnosis of Buddha Dharma. Check it out, I know it can help you all.

Offline BlackLooter

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Re: What is the cause of the impermanence?
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2018, 08:43:03 pm »
The cause of impermanence is wanting or seeking change in being existence..
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Offline Shogun

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Re: What is the cause of the impermanence?
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2018, 01:33:15 am »
You could argue that samsara is the cause of impermance, as it is the endless cycle of death and rebirth.  You could also contend that our delusions are the cause of impermanance, as we expect to grow old and die, although by becoming a fully awakened Buddha, one can break the cycle of samsara.

 


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