Why and How to Meditate

[Lobster]

Bravo Brave Buddhist Buccaneers 
How wonderful.

I have two family members recovering. One from Open Heart surgery is already doing walking meditation . . . well walking anyway . . . and one recovering from the delusion that they are 'Death' (amongst other fantasies)

Say a puja for them and All Beings.
Spread the Buddha Luv.

The world is dukkha
but when whirled it becomes a duck of a different scale 

[Spiny le Norman]

Bravo Brave Buddhist Buccaneers 

Ahoy there, mateys!

[Lobster]

TAYATA OM BHEKHANDZE BHEKHANDZE MAHA BHEKHANDZE BHEKHANDZE RANDZA SAMUNGATE SOHA 

Meditation can cure all illness

The previous post which has the appearance of spam but is
perhaps sublime Buddha Dharma brought me here again . . . 

The fantasy realm Buddhists who believe their lame Lamas are
crippled as a result of projecting higher teachings is holy male cow dung
[Thus have I heard, thus do I know] 

There is NO DOUBT that how Lamas and advanced practitioners respond to their
illnesses is indeed inspirational, aspirational and exemplary.
That their years of practice help their physical and mental being is also without question. 
Is it also to their credit that teachers induce such preposterous posturing from their disciples? It may just be an inevitable part of Guru Yoga.

Some of us are on a path to Truth. We speak it. We exemplify it.
Sometimes medicine is bitter. 

And in all humility, you know full well that the job of all Bodhisattvas is
to reduce suffering - not suffer as some sort of divine crypto Christo fantasy . . .

Of course you may be right and the new Buddhist Health Plan
(the one that involves the appearance of suffering) is something we all
await with baited breath (not long now - only been waiting 2500 years) 

TAYATA OM BHEKHANDZE BHEKHANDZE MAHA BHEKHANDZE BHEKHANDZE RANDZA SAMUNGATE SOHA 

[nowornever]

Why do I meditate?
For you.

[Hanzze]

Why do I meditate?
For you.

Watch out the young bamboo acrobat! *smile*

[Monkey Mind]

The previous post which has the appearance of spam but is
perhaps sublime Buddha Dharma brought me here again . . .  

Removed the posts and the user.

[Timbo]

This thread is over a year old. Maybe I'm jumping in too late. On the other hand, this is the first message I see when I log into the forum. It appears to be some kind of opening screen or something.

I must say, if I were completely ignorant about Buddhism and my first contact with it was this thread, I might quietly back out the door and not return.

If we practice meditation, then as our mind settles down, the pathways and energies recover their correct functions, as a result of which we preserve health and are able to heal any illnesses.

Various comments follow, some skeptical.

Meditation can cure all illness, but this does not mean that it will in every case and circumstance, or even that it is desirable. The Buddhas and advanced practitioners give us many lessons, and these often include teachings on how to undergo disease, and how to die.

The alternate hypothesis is that meditation cannot cure all disease. Oddly, no one on this thread even raised that possibility, unless I overlooked something. Maybe those who see it that way just skipped the debate. Maybe I should too...

TashNima's original statement is testable. It appears false. Common sense suggests that meditation cannot cure all disease. The combined weight of modern science does not favor this assertion.

TashNima's revised statement is not testable. That is to say, it cannot be proven true or untrue by any known method. It is not possible to design -- or even imagine -- an experiment that would test the assertion.

When I make a factual assertion, I ask myself, "How do I know that?" When others make factual assertions, I ask myself, "How does he (or she) know that?" Sometimes I ask him or her, "How do you know that?" Sometimes I don't. There's point in asking the question if it will not likely stimulate a productive conversation.

Sometimes, in reaction to certain assertions, I ask myself, "Is that even knowable?" I tend to doubt the value of un-knowable assertions. Is it accurate to say that Gautama Buddha tended to doubt the value of un-knowable assertions? I have that impression, but I can't claim to be a Buddhist scholar.

From a Buddhist perspective, is it so wrong to ask, "How do you know that? Is it wrong to value common sense or modern science? Is there something fundamental in Buddhism that invalidates modern science and common sense? If so, what is it?

Timbo

[Hanzze]

From a Buddhist perspective, is it so wrong to ask, "How do you know that?

No its not wrong to ask that, but you would just get the answer: "You need to look for your self."

Is it wrong to value common sense or modern science?

Yes, you could be easily carried away by wrong ideas. But its good to develop this kind of view by one self. 

A thicket of wrong views

"There is the case where an uninstructed, run-of-the-mill person... does not discern what ideas are fit for attention, or what ideas are unfit for attention. This being so, he does not attend to ideas fit for attention, and attends instead to ideas unfit for attention... This is how he attends inappropriately: 'Was I in the past? Was I not in the past? What was I in the past? How was I in the past? Having been what, what was I in the past? Shall I be in the future? Shall I not be in the future? What shall I be in the future? How shall I be in the future? Having been what, what shall I be in the future?' Or else he is inwardly perplexed about the immediate present: 'Am I? Am I not? What am I? How am I? Where has this being come from? Where is it bound?'

"As he attends inappropriately in this way, one of six kinds of view arises in him: The view I have a self arises in him as true & established, or the view I have no self... or the view It is precisely by means of self that I perceive self... or the view It is precisely by means of self that I perceive not-self... or the view It is precisely by means of not-self that I perceive self arises in him as true & established, or else he has a view like this: This very self of mine — the knower that is sensitive here & there to the ripening of good & bad actions — is the self of mine that is constant, everlasting, eternal, not subject to change, and will endure as long as eternity. This is called a thicket of views, a wilderness of views, a contortion of views, a writhing of views, a fetter of views. Bound by a fetter of views, the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person is not freed from birth, aging, & death, from sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair. He is not freed, I tell you, from suffering & stress.

"The well-instructed disciple of the noble ones... discerns what ideas are fit for attention, and what ideas are unfit for attention. This being so, he does not attend to ideas unfit for attention, and attends [instead] to ideas fit for attention... He attends appropriately, This is stress... This is the origination of stress... This is the cessation of stress... This is the way leading to the cessation of stress. As he attends appropriately in this way, three fetters are abandoned in him: identity-view, doubt, and grasping at precepts & practices."

— MN 2

Is there something fundamental in Buddhism that invalidates modern science and common sense?

Yes, science is still searching for the truth, while Buddha Dhamma already leads you to get it understand. Don't think you will get an explaining without see for your self. That is where most get lost.

If so, what is it?

All *smile*

[CollegeStudent]

Hey All,
My name is Jacqueline Nowers, and I'm a student at Drake University in Des Moines, IA. I am doing a paper on Buddhism for my Into to Buddhism class, and need to interview at least 3 people for their views, beliefs, and practices regarding meditation. This does not mean that you need to be a super awesome meditator with deep insights. I just need some feedback and thoughts from those who practice meditation in the Buddhist community. If you are interested in helping me, please email me at jacqueline.nowers@drake.edu. Thank You!
Jacqueline Nowers

[Amulet]

For beginners, and the reasons and inclinations in the head and heart at the beginning stages, the driving reason for starting to meditate is a selfish one, (seek happiness), because the understanding of the practitioner does not yet see the difference between seeking temporal happiness and permanent happiness beyond normal type of happiness.

It is the striving for happiness and fulfillment (by seeking impermanent satisfactions, which will only fade later), which is the cause of our dissatisfaction (Dhukkha)

Meditation has the purpose of stilling the mind, so that the mind can observe and see the processes and causes which underlie all conscious experiences

Once meditation has allowed us to see these subtle causes and processes within the 5 Khandas (filters of percieved awareness), we can then attain knowledge of the suffering that is inherent within all forms of conditioned physical existence (Sangkhara).

Once we have attained this, we can then begin to tread a new path, which casts off the heavy robes of clinging and recognizes the dangers in our habits and tendencies, and begins to cultivate a new inclination in the heart to shed off all habits which are related to the causes of rebirth.

Considering the above mentioned factors, i beg to differ that the goal of meditation is 'to seek happiness'
The goal of meditation is
'To attain Insight' and then to use that insight to cast off the fetters and causes of Rebirth and Recognize the hiding places of the primitive desires (Kilesa), with Insight and Wisdom.

Insight also brings the Knowledge of Inter-Connectedness and with this Wisdom comes the end of Hate and Aversion, for the sense of Otherness is anihillated 

[Hanzze]

Well said, I just wonder about the last sentence:

Insight also brings the Knowledge of Inter-Connectedness

Can you tell us a serious source where you get that from?

[santamonicacj]

Insight also brings the Knowledge of Inter-Connectedness

Can you tell us a serious source where you get that from?

I didn't write it, but it seems to be a re-phrasing of "By experiencing emptiness you will see for yourself the 12 links of Dependent Origination."

The original poster might mean something different though.