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Schools of Buddhism => Mahayana => Topic started by: mosestouya on September 10, 2014, 11:38:49 am

Title: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: mosestouya on September 10, 2014, 11:38:49 am
The Heart Sutra is a prayer that has been passed down by believers and teachers for generations. There is an idea that the meaning of 空 or Kuu in the Japanese translation - means Nothingness.
However in this YouTube video ( http://youtu.be/sluCUBAOFzw (http://youtu.be/sluCUBAOFzw)), it relates the idea of Kuu to a different theory.

I posted this onto this section because I thought it might be closer to the science of Buddhism rather than any other sections of the forum - although I may be wrong - please forgive me.

Moses
Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: NoEssentialNature on October 04, 2014, 10:17:41 pm
Pretty sceptical about this. Buddha clearly stated hubs opposition to ascetic practices. And 'commander self' and 'on-site self'? Doesn't sound like Buddhism to me.
Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: Dharmakara on October 06, 2014, 02:00:03 am
I tried to track down information in regard to this video, but could find anything of substance --- it's probably related to one of those new religious groups that keep popping up from time to time, more than likely small in size.

A new religious movement (NRM) is a religious community or spiritual group of modern origins, which has a peripheral place within its nation's dominant religious culture. NRMs may be novel in origin or they may be part of a wider religion, in which case they will be distinct from pre-existing denominations. Scholars studying the sociology of religion prefer to use this term as a neutral alternative to the word cult, which is often considered derogatory. Scholars continue to try to reach definitions and define boundaries. Scholars have estimated that NRMs now number in the tens of thousands world-wide, with most of their members living in Asia and Africa. Most have only a few members, some have thousands, and only very few have more than a million.

more here >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_religious_movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_religious_movement)
Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: mosestouya on October 08, 2014, 09:06:47 am
Hi there !

Thanks for the comments.

#NoEssentialNature, you are right 'commander self' and 'on-site self' are not part of Buddhism.
And #Dharmakara, you are partly right, this video is created by a small group. But it is not an NRM.

The fundamental point of the video is to explain that the concept of 'Emptiness' or 'Nothing' as described in the Sutra is a concept that was part of a 'code' that has been waiting to be deciphered...

I am neither an expert on the deciphered code nor the original Sutra. So I barely understand the meaning of the video myself.
But I think it might serve as an option for us try to understand what the original Sutra was trying to relate.
Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: Dharmakara on October 08, 2014, 09:32:40 am
Hi mosestouya.

It might help if you identify the group itself so that others might have a better understanding of where they're coming from --- also, there's a longer and shorter version of this particular sutra, not to mention various translations.

Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: NoEssentialNature on October 10, 2014, 07:13:19 am
I am neither an expert on the deciphered code nor the original Sutra. So I barely understand the meaning of the video myself.
But I think it might serve as an option for us try to understand what the original Sutra was trying to relate.

Well worth reading around on the topic. However, it is one of the most profound sutras, so aiming to simply understand it is a mistake. It is a text the understanding of is deepened and enriched by practice, and practice by reading it. There are layers and layers to be understood.
Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: stillpointdancer on May 21, 2016, 09:22:57 am
I think a lot of people get caught up with emptiness in the Heart Sutra. It's difficult because the sutra can only be understood when you have had a glimpse of pranja wisdom during insight meditation- when you look back at it. Importantly, to get to pranja wisdom there is no thing to hold on to, not even emptiness, which you have to let go of too. When all 'things' are left behind you get to pranja wisdom, a state to 'dwell in' to reach 'full and perfect understanding'.
Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: serendipity on July 21, 2016, 01:50:34 am
the word "空", or "emptiness", or "nothingness"  is used to describe the state of Nirvana 

empty of what?
empty of hallucination.

what you see with the eyes is hallucination
what you hear with the ears is hallucination
what you smell with the nose is hallucination
what you taste with the tongue is hallucination
what you touch with the body is hallucination
what you think with your brain is hallucination

In Nirvana, there is no such thing as hallucination;
therefore The Heart Sutra says "there are no eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue, no body, no brain... "
Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: stillpointdancer on July 21, 2016, 02:38:11 am
the word "空", or "emptiness", or "nothingness"  is used to describe the state of Nirvana 

empty of what?
empty of hallucination.

what you see with the eyes is hallucination
what you hear with the ears is hallucination
what you smell with the nose is hallucination
what you taste with the tongue is hallucination
what you touch with the body is hallucination
what you think with your brain is hallucination

In Nirvana, there is no such thing as hallucination;
therefore The Heart Sutra says "there are no eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue, no body, no brain... "
I think this is a mistranslation of hallucination, which means the apparent perception of something not present. The Heart Sutra is saying we have to go beyond everything we can sense or think about, beyond any sort of label. How we make sense of things now isn't how we sense of things during enlightenment, or what we understand them to be afterwards, but that doesn't mean they are hallucinations. Maybe illusion would be a better word? That we misinterpret the things that we sense? In the way that an illusionist does something, but we are tricked into thinking that something else has happened. We don't hallucinate during a magic show but are fooled by the illusions. What you see with your eyes is illusion.....
Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: serendipity on July 21, 2016, 03:19:03 am
what you see with the eyes is hallucination
....
what you think with your brain is hallucination

In Nirvana, there is no such thing as hallucination;
therefore The Heart Sutra says "there are no eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue, no body, no brain... "
I think this is a mistranslation of hallucination, which means the apparent perception of something not present.....
not a mistranslation at all
what you see with the eyes is hallucination, because what you see is in fact non-existent.

The buddhist Sutra says that when the 6 organs (eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body, brain) work together, they can make the in fact nonexistent universe appear realistic.   Anyone who believes in what they perceive with the 6 organs is living in hallucination.

A liberated person doesn't rely on the eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body and brain; therefore he/she is free  of hallucination; and is  living in "reality", called Nirvana, a sphere that can not be recognized by using eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body and brain.

Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: serendipity on July 21, 2016, 05:13:21 am
the buddhist sutra says that "the universe is in fact non-existent"
evidence as follows:
1. The Lan kavatara Sutra
2. The Discourse on the Theory of Consciousness-only
 (Vijn~aptima^trata^siddhi-/sa^stra)

(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/160721/3yflb2cw.gif)

Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: Spiny Norman on July 21, 2016, 07:34:47 am
The buddhist Sutra says that when the 6 organs (eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body, brain) work together, they can make the in fact nonexistent universe appear realistic.   ...and is  living in "reality", called Nirvana, a sphere that can not be recognized by using eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body and brain.

I think you are muddling up traditions here.

The Heart Sutra describes the Bodhisattava using prajna wisdom to see the emptiness of the aggregates, and then attaining enlightenment.  Emptiness means empty of inherent existence, ie dependent on conditions.

The Heart Sutra says "attainment too is emptiness", so enlightenment is also empty of inherent existence, not some kind of absolute. And there is "emptiness of emptiness" which means that emptiness to is empty of inherent existence, also not an absolute.

The references to "no eye, ear, nose.."etc doesn't mean that the sense bases disappear, it is just saying that they are empty of inherent existence, ie dependent on conditions.

The Heart Sutra doesn't say the universe doesn't exist, it says that the aggregates are dependently arising and therefore "empty".
Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: serendipity on July 21, 2016, 02:51:21 pm
The references to "no eye, ear, nose.."etc doesn't mean that the sense bases disappear, it is just saying that they are empty of inherent existence, ie dependent on conditions.
The word "NO" in such sentence as "No eye, ear, nose...etc" has the same meaning as that in "NO  ignorance"
"NO" simply means "doesn't have" or "without"

without eye, ear, nose......without ignorance

You define "No"as "empty of inherent existence";
your definition is indirect, which deviates from the direct meaning of the word.

"Without eyes" means "Bodhisattava doesn't rely on eyes", instead of the eyes disappearing

if a person doesn't rely on his eyes, his eyes become non-existent to him.
this is what "without eyes" means
Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: serendipity on July 21, 2016, 03:24:42 pm
the buddhist sutra tells disciples not to rely on the 6 organs (eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body & brain):

(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/160722/56qtl8u9.jpg)


according to the modern medical science, what we see with our eyes is actually the neural signals, instead of the real outside world.
more than 2 Thousand years ago, Buddha already knew about this.
For this reason, Buddha said that "outside world" doesn't really exist.
Never trust what you see with your eyes, (including ears, nose...brain)
Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: serendipity on July 21, 2016, 04:37:15 pm
What The Heart Sutra dipcts is that:
during very deep meditation, Bodhisattava awakened to the fact that the Five Skandhas (Five Aggregates) are all hallucinations only; they don't really exist.
Rupa is no different from mirage. mirage is no different from Rupa
Rupa is mirage. mirage is Rupa
vedana, samjna, samskara, vijnana are all the same

Buddha used a metaphor to explain the situation:
1. a person with cataract sees fogs in the air
2. in reality, there are no fogs in the air

The five Skandhas are like the fogs seen by the cataract patients.
People of good eyesight see no fogs in the air.

The unverse is like the fogs, only seen by people with eye disease.
The sentients are all born with disease in their eyes, ears, nose...brain, so they see things that do not exist.

Bodhisattava is no longer dependent on eyes, ears, nose...brain as the source of knowing, so he no longer sees things.  No form, no shape, no image to see.  So Nirvana is called "emptiness"

"emptiness" means "without any earthly existence (caused by hallucinations)"

(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/160722/majaanhn.jpg)
that's why the Heart Sutra says:
 "no eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body, brain "
"no  sight, sound, smell, taste, touch dharma. "

Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: serendipity on July 21, 2016, 08:36:50 pm
I think you are muddling up traditions here.

The Heart Sutra describes the Bodhisattava using prajna wisdom to see the emptiness of the aggregates, and then attaining enlightenment.  Emptiness means empty of inherent existence, ie dependent on conditions.

You have misunderstood the concept of "empty of inherent existence"

"empty of inherent existence" is used to describe the 6 Sense-organs, 6 Gunas and 6 consciousness , which are like mirages that although appear realistic but in fact have no inherent existence.

The concept of "empty of inherent existence" is not used to explain Nirvana or emptiness or (http://fs5.directupload.net/images/160722/98l4qe24.jpg)

Nirvana or emptiness or (http://fs5.directupload.net/images/160722/98l4qe24.jpg) means "without any earthly existence"
Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: Spiny Norman on July 21, 2016, 10:27:36 pm
Bodhisattava is no longer dependent on eyes, ears, nose...brain as the source of knowing, so he no longer sees things.  No form, no shape, no image to see.  So Nirvana is called "emptiness"

"emptiness" means "without any earthly existence (caused by hallucinations)"


Sorry but your interpretation doesn't make sense, it would mean the Bodhisattva gaining perfect vision and then getting run over by a bus when crossing the road.

"Sunyata" means lacking independent existence, not lacking "earthly existence".

This new translation of the Heart Sutra by Thich Nhat Hanh will hopefully make things clearer for you.
http://plumvillage.org/news/thich-nhat-hanh-new-heart-sutra-translation/ (http://plumvillage.org/news/thich-nhat-hanh-new-heart-sutra-translation/)

Another translation of the Heart Sutra here: http://www.fwbo-news.org/resources/heart_sutra.pdf (http://www.fwbo-news.org/resources/heart_sutra.pdf)
Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: serendipity on July 22, 2016, 10:30:30 pm
Bodhisattava is no longer dependent on eyes, ears, nose...brain as the source of knowing, so he no longer sees things.  No form, no shape, no image to see.  So Nirvana is called "emptiness"

"emptiness" means "without any earthly existence (caused by hallucinations)"


Sorry but your interpretation doesn't make sense, it would mean the Bodhisattva gaining perfect vision and then getting run over by a bus when crossing the road.

"Sunyata" means lacking independent existence, not lacking "earthly existence".

This new translation of the Heart Sutra by Thich Nhat Hanh will hopefully make things clearer for you.
[url]http://plumvillage.org/news/thich-nhat-hanh-new-heart-sutra-translation/[/url] ([url]http://plumvillage.org/news/thich-nhat-hanh-new-heart-sutra-translation/[/url])

Another translation of the Heart Sutra here: [url]http://www.fwbo-news.org/resources/heart_sutra.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.fwbo-news.org/resources/heart_sutra.pdf[/url])

don't need to refer to other people's translations
because you all, don't understand that the word "emptiness or Sunyata" in fact has TWO different meanings, depending on the subject that "emptiness" refers to.

When emptiness refers to any dharma, whose birth is dependent on conditions, then here emptiness means "unreal, empty of true inherent existence"

When emptiness refers to Nirvana or ultimate Reality or anything whose existence is not dependent on conditions, then here emptiness means "empty of all earthly existence that is created by conditions"

In the short Heart Sutra, the 1st to 6th "emptiness" is used in combination with Five Aggregates, so these "emptiness" mean "unreal; lack of true inherent existence"

The 7th "emptiness" no longer means the same, because this emptiness refers to the state of ultimate Reality or Nirvana.   The state of ultimate Reality is empty of anything that is created by conditions; empty of all earthly existence.
(No eyes, ears, nose, tongue, bodyskin, brain; No forms, sound, smell.....NO Sight-perception...)

The following is evidence that the word "emptiness or (http://fs5.directupload.net/images/160723/xs5z7l8c.jpg)" has TWO different meanings, depending on what it refers to:

(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/160723/z5wz7uwj.jpg)



Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: Spiny Norman on July 22, 2016, 10:51:47 pm
Bodhisattava is no longer dependent on eyes, ears, nose...brain as the source of knowing, so he no longer sees things.  No form, no shape, no image to see.  So Nirvana is called "emptiness"

"emptiness" means "without any earthly existence (caused by hallucinations)"


Sorry but your interpretation doesn't make sense, it would mean the Bodhisattva gaining perfect vision and then getting run over by a bus when crossing the road.

"Sunyata" means lacking independent existence, not lacking "earthly existence".

This new translation of the Heart Sutra by Thich Nhat Hanh will hopefully make things clearer for you.
[url]http://plumvillage.org/news/thich-nhat-hanh-new-heart-sutra-translation/[/url] ([url]http://plumvillage.org/news/thich-nhat-hanh-new-heart-sutra-translation/[/url])

Another translation of the Heart Sutra here: [url]http://www.fwbo-news.org/resources/heart_sutra.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.fwbo-news.org/resources/heart_sutra.pdf[/url])

don't need to refer to other people's translations
because you all, don't understand that the word "emptiness or Sunyata" in fact has TWO different meanings, depending on the subject that "emptiness" refers to.

When emptiness refers to any dharma, whose birth is dependent on conditions, then here emptiness means "unreal, empty of true inherent existence"

When emptiness refers to Nirvana or ultimate Reality or anything whose existence is not dependent on conditions, then here emptiness means "empty of all earthly existence that is created by conditions"

In the short Heart Sutra, the 1st to 6th "emptiness" is used in combination with Five Aggregates, so these "emptiness" mean "unreal; lack of true inherent existence"

The 7th "emptiness" no longer means the same, because this emptiness refers to the state of ultimate Reality or Nirvana.   The state of ultimate Reality is empty of anything that is created by conditions; empty of all earthly existence.
(No eyes, ears, nose, tongue, bodyskin, brain; No forms, sound, smell.....NO Sight-perception...)

The following is evidence that the word "emptiness or ([url]http://fs5.directupload.net/images/160723/xs5z7l8c.jpg[/url])" has TWO different meanings, depending on what it refers to:

([url]http://fs5.directupload.net/images/160723/z5wz7uwj.jpg[/url])


I'm not seeing "evidence", just unsupported assertions, and posting in some untranslated stuff from God knows where certainly doesn't help your case.  And by the way, Nirvana is not "ultimate reality" because the Heart Sutra states: "Attainment too is emptiness".

More translations of the Heart Sutra here:  http://www.dharmanet.org/HeartSutra.htm (http://www.dharmanet.org/HeartSutra.htm)

Maybe you could try basing an argument on what the Heart Sutra actually says.
Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: serendipity on July 22, 2016, 10:54:39 pm
Sorry but your interpretation doesn't make sense, it would mean the Bodhisattva gaining perfect vision and then getting run over by a bus when crossing the road.
the fact that "the outside world doesn't exist" is a difficult concept to grasp.
It doesn't mean that Buddha no longer sees what the sentients see.

The buddhist sutra says that, to a liberated person, the "outside world" will become "inside world", which exists inside of him.  So Buddha can still see what normal people see, and knows what is going on.

When the "outside world" becomes "inside world", the concept of time and distance will both disappear, because everything is in one same point, that is me=the universe; the universe=me





Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: Spiny Norman on July 22, 2016, 11:01:47 pm
When the "outside world" becomes "inside world", the concept of time and distance will both disappear, because everything is in one same point, that is me=the universe; the universe=me

Judging distance is a key factor in not getting run over by a bus.

What you're asserting sounds like a new-age version of Buddhist teaching, more like Hinduism.

But again, let's see an argument based on what the Heart Sutra actually says.  I have posted a number of different translations for you to quote from.
Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: serendipity on July 22, 2016, 11:16:24 pm
Judging distance is a key factor in not getting run over by a bus.

What you're asserting sounds like a new-age version of Buddhist teaching, more like Hinduism.

But again, let's see an argument based on what the Heart Sutra actually says.  I have posted a number of different translations for you to quote from.
I am the Only person in the world who preach TRUE Buddhism

ALL the other people have misinterpreted Buddhism

What I read is one of the most ancient version of buddhist sutras, the verson in traditional chinese.
I have less chance of misunderstanding than you who read the modern version of sutras

Have you heard of a saying: "lost meaning in translation"?



 
Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: Spiny Norman on July 22, 2016, 11:20:48 pm
Judging distance is a key factor in not getting run over by a bus.

What you're asserting sounds like a new-age version of Buddhist teaching, more like Hinduism.

But again, let's see an argument based on what the Heart Sutra actually says.  I have posted a number of different translations for you to quote from.
I am the Only person in the world who preach TRUE Buddhism


Oh, well, you must be right then.   :wacky: 
Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: serendipity on July 23, 2016, 12:00:34 am
I believe that there must be people here who read traditional chinese,
when they see the citations from various sutras, they will then believe that I am seriously preaching TRUE Buddhism

(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/160723/pm697q48.jpg)


The Heart Sutra doesn't say the universe doesn't exist, it says that the aggregates are dependently arising and therefore "empty".

Other sutras did say that "the universe doesn't exist"
The Heart sutra says so as well

The Heart Sutra says "No eyes, no ears, no nose...no brain..."
When you don't have the 6 sense-organs, you don't perceive the existence of the world
Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: Spiny Norman on July 23, 2016, 12:27:01 am
I believe that there must be people here who read traditional chinese,
when they see the citations from various sutras, they will then believe that I am seriously preaching TRUE Buddhism

([url]http://fs5.directupload.net/images/160723/pm697q48.jpg[/url])


The Heart Sutra doesn't say the universe doesn't exist, it says that the aggregates are dependently arising and therefore "empty".

Other sutras did say that "the universe doesn't exist"
The Heart sutra says so as well

The Heart Sutra says "No eyes, no ears, no nose...no brain..."
When you don't have the 6 sense-organs, you don't perceive the existence of the world


Which other sutras say "the universe doesn't exist"?   Please provide the relevant passages, properly referenced to a reliable source.  Please quote brief relevant passages, do NOT just dump in whole sutras.

Just posting in some Chinese text is no use at all here.  We would need a reliable English translation before looking at what it means.
Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: serendipity on July 23, 2016, 01:22:23 am
Which other sutras say "the universe doesn't exist"?   Please provide the relevant passages, properly referenced to a reliable source.  Please quote brief relevant passages, do NOT just dump in whole sutras.

Just posting in some Chinese text is no use at all here.  We would need a reliable English translation before looking at what it means.

The Lankavatara Sutra, Chapter I
"Because of folly they do not understand that all things are like maya, like the reflection of the moon in water....."

Chapter III
" I teach that the multitudiousness of objects have no reality in themselves but are only seen of mind and, therefore, are of the nature of maya and a dream. "


http://www.purifymind.com/LankavataraSutra.htm (http://www.purifymind.com/LankavataraSutra.htm)
Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: Spiny Norman on July 23, 2016, 01:33:41 am
Which other sutras say "the universe doesn't exist"?   Please provide the relevant passages, properly referenced to a reliable source.  Please quote brief relevant passages, do NOT just dump in whole sutras.

Just posting in some Chinese text is no use at all here.  We would need a reliable English translation before looking at what it means.

The Lankavatara Sutra
Because of folly they do not understand that all things are like maya, like the reflection of the moon in water,

[url]http://www.purifymind.com/LankavataraSutra.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.purifymind.com/LankavataraSutra.htm[/url])


That's a ridiculously long sutra, please indicate exactly where that line appears.  "Maya" is a Hindu concept and it looks incongruous in a Buddhist text - are you sure this is a correct translation?

More importantly, please provide a reliable English translation for the Chinese text you posted earlier.  The thread is about the Heart Sutra, we don't want to get bogged down in what I suspect will be an inconclusive discussion about what the Lankavatara Sutra means.
Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: stillpointdancer on July 23, 2016, 03:51:32 am


This new translation of the Heart Sutra by Thich Nhat Hanh will hopefully make things clearer for you.
[url]http://plumvillage.org/news/thich-nhat-hanh-new-heart-sutra-translation/[/url] ([url]http://plumvillage.org/news/thich-nhat-hanh-new-heart-sutra-translation/[/url])


An interesting translation, but I think it loses by following the recent trend towards dropping 'form is only emptiness, emptiness only form'. I understand that it can lead to misinterpretation- but for me the cost of excluding it is too high. Of course, the danger is that people drop into nihilism and think that everything is an hallucination. Which is where the nose-tweaking in the commentary is kind of fun.

In walking the narrow path between nothingness and wrong understanding of the permanence of things, the Heart Sutra is a tricky read, no matter which translation is used. Used as a mantra, 'form is only emptiness....' is as powerful for me as 'go beyond, go right beyond, go furthest beyond' and I used it as such for many years. Used as a guide to the dangers of nihilism, it's perhaps even trickier. If I had to change the line I would use, 'There is neither form nor not form, neither emptiness nor not emptiness', in the same way that I frequently use, 'There is neither a God nor not a God'.

For me, the idea that the Heart Sutra is merely to clear up the emptiness problem rather takes away from such a marvelous piece of writing. I see it as the ultimate look-back from a state of enlightenment; a reverse engineering of how to get to an enlightened state. To go beyond every 'thing', where 'emptiness' and 'hallucinations' are 'things' too. A piece of writing that I bring to mind every single day.
Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: Spiny Norman on July 23, 2016, 12:44:58 pm
An interesting translation, but I think it loses by following the recent trend towards dropping 'form is only emptiness, emptiness only form'. I understand that it can lead to misinterpretation- but for me the cost of excluding it is too high. Of course, the danger is that people drop into nihilism and think that everything is an hallucination. Which is where the nose-tweaking in the commentary is kind of fun.

I would say it's essentially about conditionality, aka dependent arising, which means our experience is not as substantial as we tend to assume.  In the suttas dependent arising is the middle way between existence and non-existence.

Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: serendipity on July 23, 2016, 02:48:06 pm
More importantly, please provide a reliable English translation for the Chinese text you posted earlier.  The thread is about the Heart Sutra, we don't want to get bogged down in what I suspect will be an inconclusive discussion about what the Lankavatara Sutra means.

Buddhism isn't just about dependent arising or cause and effect...

The Lankavatara Sutra is one of the very important sutras in buddhist studies, which reveals many secrets of the relationship between each sentient and the universe; and how the so-called 8 consciousnesses work.  Don't say that you know about Buddhism if you haven't read The Lankavatara Sutra.

The english version (done by Daisetz Teitaro Suzuki) that I've shown you is the only version you can find tody, and is used by people around the world, who want to study The Lankavatara Sutra.

The Lankavatara Sutra reveals that the universe is purely created by your own mind.  Away from MIND, there is no such thing as the universe.  MIND is the creator of everything, including the universe.  MIND is also the cause of reincarnation.

Normally, you need a teacher in order to understand the Lankavatara Sutra.

http://www.huzheng.org/en/mtlee/
The Lankavatara Sutra
"the world has no self nature, that it is un-born, that it is like a passing cloud, like an imaginary wheel made by a revolving firebrand, like the castle of the Gandharvas, like the moon reflected in the ocean, like a vision, a mirage, a dream"
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The Heart Sutra circles around the concept of "emptiness",
Buddha uses "emptiness" to explain the unreality of the World

Title: Re: The Heart Sutra; The code has just been deciphered
Post by: The Artis Magistra on July 15, 2017, 02:55:25 pm
Arguments everywhere about everything. Arguments are one thing, but why not simply perform the things said, put them into action as best you can, then the winner should become clear, having applied what was said in a way that is undeniably beneficial.
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