Author Topic: Are you sitting comfortably . . .?  (Read 1250 times)

Offline Lobster

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Are you sitting comfortably . . .?
« on: June 17, 2013, 06:19:39 pm »
then I'll begin . . .
http://buddhismnow.com/2013/06/16/a-journey-from-humiliation-to-humility-by-corrado-pensa/

It is humorous how we avoid our humiliating foibles. Eventually our humility is a humiliation, best hidden but that might take a while to kick in . . . so for now will mention my ODing on sweets today and yesterday. Shameful  :gawrsh:
Maybe I could come up with something more humiliating but then it becomes a humility ego fest . . .

Subtle and pervasive our arisings?
At the moment we are finding prominent Buddhist teachers being humiliated for serious flaws. Maybe there is a place for public rather than a box set confessional?

Offline nettles

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Re: Are you sitting comfortably . . .?
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2013, 09:57:20 am »
Yes there are a few arn't there. I will start by posting about OSHO. See what you make of him. Mad, bad, or Just dangerous to know? :teehee:

Osho Rajneesh disregarded all laws, ethics and legalities as he wanted to create a society of his own vision with its own laws and rules, says a former personal secretary of the controversial spiritual guru in a bare-all memoir....
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-02-20/india/37199222_1_commune-anand-sheela-legalities




But look at what he says...'A Buddha will be misunderstood'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-nSMi0whFEA

GoGet

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Re: Are you sitting comfortably . . .?
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2013, 10:11:01 am »

At the moment we are finding prominent Buddhist teachers being humiliated for serious flaws.

yes we are.

I think a valuable lesson here is that there is nothing that fits comfortably into our perceptions of how things should be.  These teachers demonstrating a humanity as frail as our own is an excellent example.  We put these people on pedestals but then we cast them down when we find out they aren't what we wanted them to be.  At the same time we give ourselves a pass when confronted with our own, similar shortcomings.

Spiritual Materialism?

Osho is a good example as long as Nettles brought him up.  He was a lot of things that that didn't mesh with our perceptions of what  a "guru" should be.  However, if you read/study some his stuff, there's a certain brilliance to be seen. I'm most familiar with his version Atisha's Lojong mind-training slogans.  Even though Osho wasn't, strictly speaking, a Buddhist, his treatment of these important Mahayana teachings is well worth the time to study and compare/contrast to other teachers.

So you have someone who, on one hand, is well outside moral/ethical convention and perhaps even rule of law, but on the other demonstrates remarkable insight to complex spiritual issues.  The real trick is to find a way to reconcile the two and not dismiss one hand, and so doing, dismiss both.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 10:13:22 am by GoGet »

Offline nettles

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Re: Are you sitting comfortably . . .?
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2013, 10:59:40 am »

At the moment we are finding prominent Buddhist teachers being humiliated for serious flaws.

yes we are.

I think a valuable lesson here is that there is nothing that fits comfortably into our perceptions of how things should be.  These teachers demonstrating a humanity as frail as our own is an excellent example.  We put these people on pedestals but then we cast them down when we find out they aren't what we wanted them to be.  At the same time we give ourselves a pass when confronted with our own, similar shortcomings.

Spiritual Materialism?

Osho is a good example as long as Nettles brought him up.  He was a lot of things that that didn't mesh with our perceptions of what  a "guru" should be.  However, if you read/study some his stuff, there's a certain brilliance to be seen. I'm most familiar with his version Atisha's Lojong mind-training slogans.  Even though Osho wasn't, strictly speaking, a Buddhist, his treatment of these important Mahayana teachings is well worth the time to study and compare/contrast to other teachers.

So you have someone who, on one hand, is well outside moral/ethical convention and perhaps even rule of law, but on the other demonstrates remarkable insight to complex spiritual issues.  The real trick is to find a way to reconcile the two and not dismiss one hand, and so doing, dismiss both.

Thankyou Goget. As usual you jump straight to the point.

'To find a way to reconcile the two and not dismiss one hand, and so doing, dismiss both'.

I do not know the answer, if there is one, disregarding moral/ethical convention has always brought about great changes. However,  what has a front has a back, and the bigger the front the bigger the back, but does this law change once the conditioned mind has been released?

I donut know.

Nets, going where no nets has gone before

GoGet

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Re: Are you sitting comfortably . . .?
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2013, 11:13:59 am »

'To find a way to reconcile the two and not dismiss one hand, and so doing, dismiss both'.

I do not know the answer, if there is one, disregarding moral/ethical convention has always brought about great changes. However,  what has a front has a back, and the bigger the front the bigger the back, but does this law change once the conditioned mind has been released?

I think we all need to find the Happy Medium for ourselves.  There's no pat answer, no matter how much we want or need one.  What works for one, won't work for another and it's pointless to assert anything else.

Like some of these "fallen" teachers.  You may or may not agree with their lifestyle choices.  You may use that lifestyle as the sole criteria for evaluating that teacher's worth.  That's fine, but does this mean that your evaluation is in any way relevant, or agreeable or even correct for everyone?  I can't and won't say that it is.

With teachers, we get to decide for ourselves.  We don't get to decide for others.

Offline Lobster

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Re: Are you sitting comfortably . . .?
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2013, 12:21:45 pm »
Quote
Mad, bad, or Just dangerous to know?


Ignorant.

Buddhas do not put on silly voice theatrics, to play act 'the Buddha'.
I had a friend who went out to Rajneeshpuram, to be orange.
Maybe she found what she was looking for despite the silly (in a detrimental way) cavorting of OSLO.

The trouble with Bog1 is he purloined genuine teachings, which he did not have the maturity to know what to apply, with who and when. So he was useless in spiritual terms.
Now people are taking the stories and teachings and finding value in them, despite the carrier ONO or whatever the stragglers are renaming him, being devoid of insight. Most people seem reluctant to say that ALLSHO and his advice is superficial, inappropriate, useless and quite often detrimental.

Rajniche follows a long tradition of commercial gurus, coming West and selling eastern snake oil. We quite often go along with this charade because of our gullibility and greed for 'development'.

Here is someone a bit more natural




 


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