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The Academy => Seeker's Corner => Comparative Religion and Philosophy => Topic started by: ZenFred on September 17, 2017, 06:47:08 pm

Title: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: ZenFred on September 17, 2017, 06:47:08 pm
Dharmaflower has sent me multiple messages about the wisdom of Pure Land, which I've appreciated. I thought it would be best to respond in a public thread so others can contribute as well.

I am definitely not the first theist who is favorable to Buddhism and tries to incorporate the Buddhist religion into a greater theological scheme. Though because Buddhism isn't really a "religion" in many ways and often itself rejects religion and God this can be tricky.

I thought I'd start the thread with how I've seen various approaches to encorporate Buddhism into existing theistic worldviews and the problems with these approaches.

The most common I think it is taking surface aspects of Buddhism out of context and ignoring any real theological conflict. Our episcopal church just started a series on Zen meditation and wants to combine it with Christian, scriptural devotions. It's taking specific meditation practices because they feel good or look spiritual or whatever and appropriating them completely out of context. Perhaps someone is looking at the ethical components of Buddhism and the example of loving kindness and equanimity of Buddhist practioners (especially famous ones). That is fine, but just because the Dali Lama is a good person doesn't mean he is somehow Christian. Perhaps it proves not all non-Christians are wicked people but that's a seperate issue!

Then there is taking ones worldview are artificially imposing into Buddhism. The opposite of the above. Roshi Kennedy is a Catholic Jesuit priest and also a Soto Zen Master. I watched an interview and what he seemed to be saying is when he sits zazen, he encounters Jesus. That's imposing a Christian experience on Buddhism. The Roshi could very well be encountering Jesus, but he can't say all Buddhists are.

Then there is the Muslim/Baha'i perspective that the Buddha was a prophet and messenger of God. The original message of the Buddha, according to this view, is the same message of love of God and love of neighbor that Moses, Jesus and Mohammad preached. Just overtime it became corrupted. I suppose this view, especially among the Baha'i, might say the Buddha taught only the levels of truth he knew would be understood and received at the time so that's why maybe he didn't go into much theistic stuff and just focused on right action. I get the sense that people say that have never read the Pali Cannon and don't really know what the Buddha actually said.

I still think there is a way to explain the merits of Buddhism and the effectiveness of its spiritual teaching within a larger theistic worldview without white washing the Buddhist teachings. I'd love to hear your thoughts before I take my own stab at it.

Title: Re: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: ground on September 17, 2017, 09:42:12 pm
...
I thought I'd start the thread with how I've seen various approaches to encorporate Buddhism into existing theistic worldviews and the problems with these approaches.
Trying to incorporate emptiness into emptiness is the path of busyness.  :fu:
Title: Re: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: Pixie on September 17, 2017, 11:37:07 pm
Hi Zenfred,

I don't think its a good idea to try to combine Buddhism with another religion because one is likely to end up with watered down versions of both, as well as general confusion.

There's already quite enough to study and practice in the Buddha's teachings.

So in general, to me it just seems like straying away from the path in an already over- busy and increasingly complex world.



With best wishes,


Pixie _/|\_
Title: Re: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: Spiny Norman on September 18, 2017, 01:21:06 am
I still think there is a way to explain the merits of Buddhism and the effectiveness of its spiritual teaching within a larger theistic worldview without white washing the Buddhist teachings. I'd love to hear your thoughts before I take my own stab at it.

There is no reason why you can't incorporate Buddhist practices into your own path, though such practices may well challenge your existing assumptions ( that is what they are for! ).

How about sitting down with a blank piece of paper and writing down what you know, what you believe, and what you really want from a spiritual path?

It's possible that you come up with won't easily fit into any of the major religious traditions, but that's OK.  Beware though of digging many shallow wells, you could spend a lifetime "seeking", but never really going deep enough.

Thich Nhat Hanh, Hinduism and Quakers might be worth checking out if you haven't already done so.
Title: Re: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: ZenFred on September 18, 2017, 04:43:20 am

Trying to incorporate emptiness into emptiness is the path of busyness.  :fu:

 This is exactly what I think is wrong with the approaches I listed above. They don't take the Buddhist view of emptiness very seriously. Any interfaith system needs to take emptiness and deslusion and nature of self (or non-self) head on.
Title: Re: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: ZenFred on September 18, 2017, 04:54:08 am
Hi Zenfred,

I don't think its a good idea to try to combine Buddhism with another religion because one is likely to end up with watered down versions of both, as well as general confusion.

There's already quite enough to study and practice in the Buddha's teachings.

So in general, to me it just seems like straying away from the path in an already over- busy and increasingly complex world.



With best wishes,


Pixie _/|\_

  I would also agree with you. I need to be careful what I mean by "incorporating" and it's probably a poor choice of words. First off, I'm not a Buddhist. I am a theist with a fullfilling prayer practice and I don't need to add bits of other religions because I think they are cool. That's spiritual materialism and yes I end up with lots of shallow wells.
Also, what I really shouldn't do is to have some sort of evangelism as a hidden agenda. I don't want to try to say that Buddhists are really worshiping my conception of God even though they don't know it. I would love to talk to Roshi Kennedy, but he's older now. I do know one of his students who is also Christian and a Roshi. I met with her multiple times when first studying Buddhism. Maybe I could reach out to her, but I suspect the answer I'll get is that Buddha nature is Jesus is Allah is Shiva, etc.  I actually think that's true but not really the point. I'll explain in a little bit. I wanted to lay out the past mistakes first before I gave my attempt.

Title: Re: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: Dharma Flower on September 18, 2017, 11:18:07 am
Why do we need theism? There is no creator in Buddhism, since it's taught the universe has always existed in some form.

If you want a connection to a power greater than yourself, then you can call on the names of celestial buddhas and bodhisattvas. Buddhism doesn't require a theistic god.
Title: Re: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: ground on September 18, 2017, 09:56:45 pm

Trying to incorporate emptiness into emptiness is the path of busyness.  :fu:

 This is exactly what I think is wrong with the approaches I listed above. They don't take the Buddhist view of emptiness very seriously. Any interfaith system needs to take emptiness and deslusion and nature of self (or non-self) head on.
What's the use of 'interfaith'? All faiths are emptiness. Proliferation of simplicity into complexity.
Title: Re: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: IdleChater on September 19, 2017, 02:46:01 am

Trying to incorporate emptiness into emptiness is the path of busyness.  :fu:

 This is exactly what I think is wrong with the approaches I listed above. They don't take the Buddhist view of emptiness very seriously. Any interfaith system needs to take emptiness and deslusion and nature of self (or non-self) head on.
What's the use of 'interfaith'? All faiths are emptiness. Proliferation of simplicity into complexity.

sHEESH ......

What's next, "Just Sit"?
Title: Re: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: ground on September 19, 2017, 04:27:36 am

Trying to incorporate emptiness into emptiness is the path of busyness.  :fu:

 This is exactly what I think is wrong with the approaches I listed above. They don't take the Buddhist view of emptiness very seriously. Any interfaith system needs to take emptiness and deslusion and nature of self (or non-self) head on.
What's the use of 'interfaith'? All faiths are emptiness. Proliferation of simplicity into complexity.

sHEESH ......

What's next, "Just Sit"?

Irrelevant. Anything or nothing. As you like.

Proliferation into complexity always starts with asking due to having lost sight of simplicity.

Title: Re: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: IdleChater on September 19, 2017, 05:28:29 am

Trying to incorporate emptiness into emptiness is the path of busyness.  :fu:

 This is exactly what I think is wrong with the approaches I listed above. They don't take the Buddhist view of emptiness very seriously. Any interfaith system needs to take emptiness and deslusion and nature of self (or non-self) head on.
What's the use of 'interfaith'? All faiths are emptiness. Proliferation of simplicity into complexity.

sHEESH ......

What's next, "Just Sit"?

Irrelevant. Anything or nothing. As you like.

Proliferation into complexity always starts with asking due to having lost sight of simplicity.

What is your vacuous nonsense proliferation cased by?
Title: Re: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: ground on September 19, 2017, 06:07:08 am

Trying to incorporate emptiness into emptiness is the path of busyness.  :fu:

 This is exactly what I think is wrong with the approaches I listed above. They don't take the Buddhist view of emptiness very seriously. Any interfaith system needs to take emptiness and deslusion and nature of self (or non-self) head on.
What's the use of 'interfaith'? All faiths are emptiness. Proliferation of simplicity into complexity.

sHEESH ......

What's next, "Just Sit"?

Irrelevant. Anything or nothing. As you like.

Proliferation into complexity always starts with asking due to having lost sight of simplicity.

What is your vacuous nonsense proliferation cased by?
There you are ... asking questions.  :fu:
Title: Re: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: ZenFred on September 19, 2017, 06:38:34 am

Trying to incorporate emptiness into emptiness is the path of busyness.  :fu:

 This is exactly what I think is wrong with the approaches I listed above. They don't take the Buddhist view of emptiness very seriously. Any interfaith system needs to take emptiness and deslusion and nature of self (or non-self) head on.
What's the use of 'interfaith'? All faiths are emptiness. Proliferation of simplicity into complexity.

sHEESH ......

What's next, "Just Sit"?

Actually, I'm starting to agree with ground :)

I was setting up for using the blind men and the elephant example for how Buddhism looks at an aspect of reality but no one tradition can grasp the totality of Reality.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant

 But I've realized that any attempt to understand God in totality is futile. It's even impossible to discern with certainty true revelation from false prophets. I think the answer is to be before God alone in prayer (the Muslims would say submit to God alone). I am greatful for the scriptures and teachings of wisdom which I embrace, but I let go of the certainty or total understanding that has never been mine to possess. So it may not be just sit, but for me it definitely is just pray.

Title: Re: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: Dharma Flower on September 19, 2017, 01:57:23 pm
I think the answer is to be before God alone in prayer (the Muslims would say submit to God alone).
Why do we need theism? There is no creator in Buddhism, since it's taught the universe has always existed in some form.

If you want a connection to a power greater than yourself, then you can call on the names of celestial buddhas and bodhisattvas. Buddhism doesn't require a theistic god.
Quote
Juseige (Verses Reiterating the Vows) appears in the first volume of the Sutra on the Buddha of Immeasurable Life.

Bodhisattva Dharmakara, who became Amida Buddha in the beginningless past, appears and sets forth his all-surpassing Forty-Eight Vows with which to save all beings, and promises to fulfill them all without fail.

This gatha (hymn) is so named because Amida Buddha reiterated in his Vows, that should all beings wallowing in the sea of delusion not be saved and that should there be any place that his Name, Namu-Amida-Butsu, not be heard, he will not attain Buddhahood.
https://www.nishihongwanji-la.org/teachings/sutras/ (https://www.nishihongwanji-la.org/teachings/sutras/)
Title: Re: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: IdleChater on September 19, 2017, 06:58:36 pm

Trying to incorporate emptiness into emptiness is the path of busyness.  :fu:

 This is exactly what I think is wrong with the approaches I listed above. They don't take the Buddhist view of emptiness very seriously. Any interfaith system needs to take emptiness and deslusion and nature of self (or non-self) head on.
What's the use of 'interfaith'? All faiths are emptiness. Proliferation of simplicity into complexity.

sHEESH ......

What's next, "Just Sit"?

Actually, I'm starting to agree with ground :)

That, I think, is a mistake.

Quote
I was setting up for using the blind men and the elephant example for how Buddhism looks at an aspect of reality but no one tradition can grasp the totality of Reality.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant

Not true.

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/81/60/dd/8160dd8ec5edb43f559c71fcc2c812f8--street-art-buddhists.jpg)

This is an image of the Refuge Tree used in the Kagyu lineage.  The peole seated above and around Vajradhara, the ones with halos?  These are enlightened being that were lineage holders as well.  They grasped the totality of reality.  The Gelug, Sakya, and the Nyingma have such people as well, as to Zen Patriarchs and so on.

The only reason it vccan't work for you right now, is because you don't believe it will.  Belief is a powerful thing.  In another trhead I mentioned quitting smoking after 40 years.  No mean feat.  I was able to do it, because I believed it could be done - really believed.

No matter what others here may say, you can mix different faiths and have them work.  You can be both a Buddhist and Christian, if you really believe it will work.  Read the work of Thomas Merton.  He was a Franciscan who was very successfull is creating a fusion of Roman Catholic and Buddhist contempative practice.  Worked with the Dalai Lama.  He believed it could be done.  Not only that he believed it should be done.

Another way to look at is as confidence.

I trained as a racing driver.  I learned pretty quikly is that some things on the track are damned-near impossible unless you absolutely believe you can do it.  If you go into a turn at racing speed with even the slightest hestiation, born of doubt, you'll fail.  You'll end up in the weeds, the hospital, or morgue.   If you doubt, you're dead.

The same applies to spiritual practice.  If you believe, you can accomplish the impossible.
Title: Re: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: ground on September 19, 2017, 09:36:15 pm

Trying to incorporate emptiness into emptiness is the path of busyness.  :fu:

 This is exactly what I think is wrong with the approaches I listed above. They don't take the Buddhist view of emptiness very seriously. Any interfaith system needs to take emptiness and deslusion and nature of self (or non-self) head on.
What's the use of 'interfaith'? All faiths are emptiness. Proliferation of simplicity into complexity.

sHEESH ......

What's next, "Just Sit"?

Actually, I'm starting to agree with ground :)

That, I think, is a mistake.

Quote
I was setting up for using the blind men and the elephant example for how Buddhism looks at an aspect of reality but no one tradition can grasp the totality of Reality.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant

Not true.

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/81/60/dd/8160dd8ec5edb43f559c71fcc2c812f8--street-art-buddhists.jpg)

This is an image of the Refuge Tree used in the Kagyu lineage.  The peole seated above and around Vajradhara, the ones with halos?  These are enlightened being that were lineage holders as well.  They grasped the totality of reality.  The Gelug, Sakya, and the Nyingma have such people as well, as to Zen Patriarchs and so on.

The only reason it vccan't work for you right now, is because you don't believe it will.  Belief is a powerful thing.  In another trhead I mentioned quitting smoking after 40 years.  No mean feat.  I was able to do it, because I believed it could be done - really believed.

No matter what others here may say, you can mix different faiths and have them work.  You can be both a Buddhist and Christian, if you really believe it will work.  Read the work of Thomas Merton.  He was a Franciscan who was very successfull is creating a fusion of Roman Catholic and Buddhist contempative practice.  Worked with the Dalai Lama.  He believed it could be done.  Not only that he believed it should be done.

Another way to look at is as confidence.

I trained as a racing driver.  I learned pretty quikly is that some things on the track are damned-near impossible unless you absolutely believe you can do it.  If you go into a turn at racing speed with even the slightest hestiation, born of doubt, you'll fail.  You'll end up in the weeds, the hospital, or morgue.   If you doubt, you're dead.

The same applies to spiritual practice.  If you believe, you can accomplish the impossible.

Wow ...  :teehee:
Title: Re: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: Spiny Norman on September 20, 2017, 01:31:47 am
I was setting up for using the blind men and the elephant example for how Buddhism looks at an aspect of reality but no one tradition can grasp the totality of Reality.

Could you define exactly what you mean by "Reality"?
Title: Re: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: ZenFred on September 20, 2017, 03:12:21 am
I was setting up for using the blind men and the elephant example for how Buddhism looks at an aspect of reality but no one tradition can grasp the totality of Reality.

Could you define exactly what you mean by "Reality"?

No I can't define it exactly, because I agree that it's beyond description. Most simply though Reality would actually be the same as reality (without the R). Reality is the set of all things that exist. If God exists He is necessarily part of Reality.
Title: Re: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: ZenFred on September 20, 2017, 03:42:36 am
Why do we need theism? There is no creator in Buddhism, since it's taught the universe has always existed in some form.

If you want a connection to a power greater than yourself, then you can call on the names of celestial buddhas and bodhisattvas. Buddhism doesn't require a theistic god.

  I'll answer using the elephant teaching again.
  Why do you need theism? I don't think you do. I personally believe it is most likely that you as a Buddhist have full access to enlightenment/God's presence and salvation thru your tradition or even without a tradition.

  Why do I need theism? Because that explains my experience of reality slightly better than non-theism. Prayer and study of scripture is a more rational response, for me, to the aspects of truth I experience.

  It's important to point out you can't be just totally relativistic. Most religions would disagree with me and would say not all paths are the same and naturally theirs is the only or least best path. So it's not whatever you want to be believe and religious exclusivity is a harmful force. There are also many other harmful and dangerous aspects with pretty much any tradition. There are Buddhists who use their religion to charge large sums out of celebrities in the west promising them success thru Buddha or quasi-Buddhist doomsday cultists. Even mainline religious communities has some negative aspects I how it is sometimes implemented. Like Christian emphasis on sinfulness if misunderstood could lead to paralysising guilt.

Ultimately because of the glorious and infinite nature of divine reality any words I use will fall short. I use the word God, which is a terrible word to use, because in some sense I do encounter a reality that is loving and powerful and has a will for us and gives us messages. Yet this reality is without full description and does not have a human personality and has physical form. God doesn't have a gender. He/She can not be manipulated or controlled by rituals and is not bound by human understanding or expectations. Yet he keeps his promises and hears those who pray to him.
 
Likewise words I used like presence and salvation fall apart outside of a theistic tradition. But I believe "God" is "found" outside of theism. The emptiness and satori you all expelrience in meditation is God. It's not my version of God that you somehow mistake, Jesus undercover or anything. But you encounter divinity and correctly perceive aspects of that divinity, even if those aspects are that it's unpercievable. If zen can talk out both sides of the mouth, so can I :)

   
Title: Re: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: Solodris on September 20, 2017, 09:36:45 am
People, you all know what the real desire is. I don't need to spell it out to you what the Ajahn Brahm story about the two bad bricks is, and if there is a conditional element to persuade you to go towards such provision of an exact ecological measurement to promote such existence, I don't really see the problem.
Title: Re: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: Spiny Norman on September 21, 2017, 01:36:41 am
I was setting up for using the blind men and the elephant example for how Buddhism looks at an aspect of reality but no one tradition can grasp the totality of Reality.

Could you define exactly what you mean by "Reality"?

No I can't define it exactly, because I agree that it's beyond description. Most simply though Reality would actually be the same as reality (without the R). Reality is the set of all things that exist. If God exists He is necessarily part of Reality.

OK, but do you accept that human religions are only dealing with a small subset of all that exists?  It's like a group of insects speculating about how the earth was formed.
Title: Re: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: Spiny Norman on September 21, 2017, 01:39:25 am
But I believe "God" is "found" outside of theism. 

Why call it "God" then?  The word has so much baggage associated with it.  A neutral word like "transcendent" might suit your purposes better.
Title: Re: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: ZenFred on September 21, 2017, 09:44:58 am
I was setting up for using the blind men and the elephant example for how Buddhism looks at an aspect of reality but no one tradition can grasp the totality of Reality.

Could you define exactly what you mean by "Reality"?

No I can't define it exactly, because I agree that it's beyond description. Most simply though Reality would actually be the same as reality (without the R). Reality is the set of all things that exist. If God exists He is necessarily part of Reality.

OK, but do you accept that human religions are only dealing with a small subset of all that exists?  It's like a group of insects speculating about how the earth was formed.

  That's a depressing analogy but yes it's a valid one. Maybe I should stick with Spinoza on both this and the calling this thing "God". So Spinoza says that God is of infinitely perfect attributes. Infinitely loving, infinitely wise, infinitely powerful and so on. Humans have those same values but in finite amounts. Being human there is an infinite distance between our understanding and God's. Infinity - 100 = infinity

  You have an other suggestions than God? If I use other titles like Universal Mind, Monad, or even Hebrew names then I think people wouldn't have any idea what I'm talking about. Maybe that's the point though. What I mean when I say God has basically nothing to do with when a Baptist says God. They are completely unrelated.

  The best concept lately that's been helpful is a Sufi one (also seen in the Song of Solomon). I am the lover seeking the Beloved. But this is also in reverse that my Lover seeks me her beloved. I say her because I am male, but the Lover is genderless. So there is an aspect that is diety like that is seeking and actively loving. A Being that one can speak to and who speaks back. Yet, it is also not like a diety. Her love is everywhere and is not limited to religious moments or places, all of existence participates in the loving making dance. This is a mystical understanding. It's not pantheism or panentheism or theism. It's any -ism, it's a direct experience. Maybe I learned something from the Zendo after all :)
Title: Re: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: Dharma Flower on September 21, 2017, 12:45:42 pm
I’ve had a lot of anxiety and depression in my life. I therefore receive peace and consolation from the belief that this is my final rebirth, and that my future Buddhahood is assured in the grace of Amida Buddha.

I don’t claim to have proof in support of this belief, but if it turns out to be untrue, I’ve lost nothing:

Quote
I have no idea whether the Nembutsu is truly the seed for my being born in the Pure Land or whether it is the karmic act for which I must fall into hell. Should I have been deceived by Master Honen and, saying the Nembutsu, were to fall into hell, even then I would have no regrets.

The reason is, if I could attain Buddhahood by endeavoring in other practices, but said the Nembutsu and so fell into hell, then I would feel regret at having been deceived. But I am incapable of any other practice, so hell is decidedly my abode whatever I do.
[url]http://web.mit.edu/stclair/www/tannisho-all.html[/url] ([url]http://web.mit.edu/stclair/www/tannisho-all.html[/url])


I've also had problems with low self-worth and self-esteem. It's refreshing, then, that Jodo Shinshu teaches we are accepted by Amida's compassion, just as we are.

This makes me feel more grateful for my life, and more wanting to live in such a way that shows appreciation for others, just as Amida has been compassionate to us. 
Title: Re: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: ground on September 22, 2017, 01:27:47 am
I don’t claim to have proof in support of this belief, but if it turns out to be untrue, I’ve lost nothing:
I like this statement. It makes evident the psychological trick of beliefs that are aiming at attainments after death. The point is that even if the belief is false it will never turn out to be false. Why? Because it is aiming at attainments after death. In this way such a belief is superior to beliefs that are aiming at attainments in life.
The only issue that remains is doubt that always accompanies belief. So a drawback of such a belief is that there is nevertheless one thing to be achieved in life first: certainty.  Otherwise the realization of the positive psychological effects of such a belief in life is continually threatened.

Title: Re: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: Spiny Norman on September 23, 2017, 01:12:55 am
The best concept lately that's been helpful is a Sufi one (also seen in the Song of Solomon). I am the lover seeking the Beloved. But this is also in reverse that my Lover seeks me her beloved. I say her because I am male, but the Lover is genderless. So there is an aspect that is diety like that is seeking and actively loving. A Being that one can speak to and who speaks back. Yet, it is also not like a diety. Her love is everywhere and is not limited to religious moments or places, all of existence participates in the loving making dance. This is a mystical understanding. It's not pantheism or panentheism or theism. It's any -ism, it's a direct experience. Maybe I learned something from the Zendo after all :)

Maybe you need a break from all these concepts and explanations?
Title: Re: Interfaith and Buddhism
Post by: Samana Johann on September 23, 2017, 02:13:56 am
I’ve had a lot of anxiety and depression in my life. I therefore receive peace and consolation from the belief that this is my final rebirth, and that my future Buddhahood is assured in the grace of Amida Buddha.

I don’t claim to have proof in support of this belief, but if it turns out to be untrue, I’ve lost nothing:

Quote
I have no idea whether the Nembutsu is truly the seed for my being born in the Pure Land or whether it is the karmic act for which I must fall into hell. Should I have been deceived by Master Honen and, saying the Nembutsu, were to fall into hell, even then I would have no regrets.

The reason is, if I could attain Buddhahood by endeavoring in other practices, but said the Nembutsu and so fell into hell, then I would feel regret at having been deceived. But I am incapable of any other practice, so hell is decidedly my abode whatever I do.
[url]http://web.mit.edu/stclair/www/tannisho-all.html[/url] ([url]http://web.mit.edu/stclair/www/tannisho-all.html[/url])


I've also had problems with low self-worth and self-esteem. It's refreshing, then, that Jodo Shinshu teaches we are accepted by Amida's compassion, just as we are.

This makes me feel more grateful for my life, and more wanting to live in such a way that shows appreciation for others, just as Amida has been compassionate to us.
...At least it let's one think that their is somebody who will excuse wrong-doings at least... or?

That is how "Religion" get's their growd. Politic and a promised Land.

The discussioner here might tell my person if the hope is otherwise...

Effort kept arosen is hard, not to just say: work (dana, sila, bhavana (panna)) Everybody telling different sells loans/debts. Nobody will ever do your work for you, or carry your debt when getting heavy.
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