Author Topic: The Twelve Step Buddhist  (Read 5978 times)

Offline santamonicacj

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Re: The Twelve Step Buddhist
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2011, 08:38:24 am »
It is public knowledge that Bill W's "sponsor", a.k.a. spiritual advisor, was a non-alcoholic Catholic priest. I'm not sure but his name might have been Father Dowling.
Quote
...that insisted to their death-beds that if doing the 12 steps didn't culminate in the 12 stepper accepting Jesus Christ as their personal Lord & Savior, then they didn't do 'em right!

However I do not see anything in the literature or histories that indicate some sort of greater agenda. In fact the founders were open to just about anything that worked, even if they did not come up with it.
Warning: I'm enough of a fundamentalist Tibet style Buddhist to believe that for the last 1,000 years Tibet has produced a handful of enlightened masters in every generation. I do not ask that YOU believe it, but it will greatly simplify conversations if you understand that about me. Thanks.

Offline Hanzze

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Re: The Twelve Step Buddhist
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2011, 09:06:39 am »
I guess there is no need to judge a person, his history or origin. That does not lead to a proper result and could be full of wrong judgment. I think its better to look at the intention and the way (the kind). Its the easiest way to give a substitute drug and used by many if not all religions (so also even in many Buddhist branches) as well as in worldly companies to solve the problem.

The approach of the Buddha Dharma is a different, because it focus only to uproot the real cause and not only regarding a particular addiction.

*smile*

Offline Ron-the-Elder

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Re: The Twelve Step Buddhist
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2011, 11:22:01 am »
I guess there is no need to judge a person, his history or origin. That does not lead to a proper result and could be full of wrong judgment. I think its better to look at the intention and the way (the kind). Its the easiest way to give a substitute drug and used by many if not all religions (so also even in many Buddhist branches) as well as in worldly companies to solve the problem.

The approach of the Buddha Dharma is a different, because it focus only to uproot the real cause and not only regarding a particular addiction.

*smile*

Excellent observations, Hanze.

Buddha not only states what to do:  "Let go of that which is causing dukkha."..in this case physical and psychological addictions, but the means to facilitating the ability and skill to let go:  The Noble Eight Fold Path.

However, getting back to my original point, which seems to have gotten lost somehow in the chatter, the astonishing recommendation in Service to Others in  The Big Book advises to keep booze on hand to tide the drunk over till he can sober up enough to listen to the message, whereas Buddha's message is that the mind must not be made cloudier by ingesting intoxicants.  Both AA's recommendations, and Buddha's agrees in that "abstinence" is the ultimate means to clear the mind.  Both agree that there is a process to follow which produces a well trained and beneficial mind.  AA recommends The Twelves Steps, whereas Buddha recommends The Noble Eight Fold Path.
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

Offline santamonicacj

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Re: The Twelve Step Buddhist
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2011, 10:37:00 pm »
...The Big Book advises to keep booze on hand to tide the drunk over till he can sober up enough to listen to the message...
I'll have to look that one up.

I do know that Bill W. handed Dr. Bob his last drink. Dr. Bob was a surgeon and had the shakes going into an operation, so Bill gave him a beer to stop the shaking. But by all accounts it was his last drink. Maybe that has something to do with the idea. :scratch:
Warning: I'm enough of a fundamentalist Tibet style Buddhist to believe that for the last 1,000 years Tibet has produced a handful of enlightened masters in every generation. I do not ask that YOU believe it, but it will greatly simplify conversations if you understand that about me. Thanks.

Offline Hanzze

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Re: The Twelve Step Buddhist
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2011, 11:06:13 pm »
With twelve step, one would end up in a nice realm for a while. Buddha taught the 16 steps to destroy every addiction and the release to dreathlessness:

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"[1] Breathing in long, he discerns, 'I am breathing in long'; or breathing out long, he discerns, 'I am breathing out long.' [2] Or breathing in short, he discerns, 'I am breathing in short'; or breathing out short, he discerns, 'I am breathing out short.' [3] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to the entire body.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to the entire body.' [4] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in calming bodily fabrication [in-&-out breathing].' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out calming bodily fabrication.'

"[5] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to rapture.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to rapture.' [6] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to pleasure.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to pleasure.' [7] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to mental fabrication [feeling & perception].' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to mental fabrication.' [8] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in calming mental fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out calming mental fabrication.'

"[9] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to the mind.' [10] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in gladdening the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out gladdening the mind.' [11] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in steadying the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out steadying the mind.' [12] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in releasing the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out releasing the mind.'

"[13] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on inconstancy.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on inconstancy.' [14] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on dispassion [literally, fading].' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on dispassion.' [15] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on cessation.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on cessation.' [16] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on relinquishment.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on relinquishment.'"

A Meditators Tools (a compact explaining of the Dhamma-guided-addiction-release-program) DGARP


How ever, having received the 12 Step program already jump on the 16 Step program, to get not losing the benefit of the first 12 steps as long as you are in this precious existent and not in any other no-exit-for-a-long-while-realm yet. *smile*
« Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 11:18:24 pm by Hanzze »

Offline landis

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Re: The Twelve Step Buddhist
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2011, 01:34:19 am »
...The Big Book advises to keep booze on hand to tide the drunk over till he can sober up enough to listen to the message...
I'll have to look that one up.
It's in the chapter where they discuss the DTs (delirium tremums).  A drink under medical supervision--as in this case--can alleviate DT symptoms.  They weren't recommending it to prime them for a message but to prevent them from death or insanity, a real and common outcome of the DTs.
Follow Up/Tip:  The Born-Again Christian force was spearheaded my a Mr. Clancey--no, not the novelist.
landis <3
 
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like a planet,
like a f**king atom bomb,
I'll remain unperturbed by the joy and the
madness
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in books and magazines
like a twitch before dying
like a pornographic sea
there's a flower behind the window
there's an ugly laughing man
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oh yeah, oh yeah, like the blood on my door
wash me clean and I will run
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like the bone under my skin
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Offline Empty13

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Re: The Twelve Step Buddhist
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2018, 04:53:32 pm »
It isn't very difficult to see some easy paralels between most Buddhist practice, AA, and even Jungian psychology, actually. I am going through the book currently with a sponsor, and he is very supportive of my practice, and even is curious about it himself as he claims he is not a mainstream "Christian."

Take what you need and leave the rest, and give what you can; all things 12 Step are easy to incorporate into Buddhist practice, especially the service, 11th Step, etc. I have started volunteering at a homeless shelter, to help benefit both my practice and work in AA. My Zen teacher is aware of both and encouraging.

Also, checking out Noah Levine's work, Refuge Recovery, is a good supplement, along with his other books like Dharma Punx and Against the Stream. I have read the 12-step Buddhist book by Darren Littlejohn. It's good, but the meditation's are more for people who have worked the steps for a while, as they can be intense for, say, a 35 day sober crack addict. Also it's heavily Tibetan with Zen influence, which I like, but many may not. Again, take what you can and leave the rest, with Noah Levine's work and Littlejohn's.

If it wasn't for either Zen, Tibetan, and a small bit of more traditional/Theravada teachings and practice, along with getting certain mental and physical health issues taken care of, treatment, AA, and yoga, I am not sure if I would be where I am now, or even alive. Therapy and psychiatry can help also. I use all of the above, and without even one or two of them my supportive web of recovery isn't in place and I wouldn't be able to live as happily as I am now.


« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 02:59:49 pm by Empty13 »

Offline Anemephistus

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Re: The Twelve Step Buddhist
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2018, 12:08:51 pm »
This is for you if you wish to check it out. My wife is is active in AA and has many years sober, I was in NA for a time and I have primarily used Buddhist study but the parallels are very clear to anyone who loos, I attribute this to the path away from suffering being a single road and the vehicles which travel it make similar experience. They are not equal for all but all have similar merit and each is good for some and some of each is necessary for all.

https://www.buddhistrecovery.org/

The monk who leads this wrote a fascinating book about his story. He is of a sharp mind, and clear thoughts. You may find it interesting so I will share the link to it as well.

https://www.buddhistrecovery.org/media/name/APathWithHeart.htm

 


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