Author Topic: Ven. Kelsang Wangmo is First Woman to Receive Geshe diploma  (Read 2478 times)


Offline zerwe

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Re: Ven. Kelsang Wangmo is First Woman to Receive Geshe diploma
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2011, 08:14:31 pm »
That is truly awesome. May there be many more graduates to follow!
Shaun :namaste:

Offline santamonicacj

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Re: Ven. Kelsang Wangmo is First Woman to Receive Geshe diploma
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2011, 08:22:47 pm »
Congratulations! May there be many more soon to come.

It is interesting that she got it from a place founded by HHDL but giving Rime geshe degrees!
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 08:36:33 pm by santamonicacj »
Warning: I'm enough of a fundamentalist Tibet style Buddhist to believe that for the last 1,000 years Tibet has produced a handful of enlightened masters in every generation. I do not ask that YOU believe it, but it will greatly simplify conversations if you understand that about me. Thanks.

Offline Caz

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Re: Ven. Kelsang Wangmo is First Woman to Receive Geshe diploma
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2011, 01:23:05 am »
Congratulations its a shame there are not many female Geshe's its a good job to see this boundary being broken.
So its a Rime degree ? how does that work tantra in the 4 schools is so extensive you cant possibley know it all ! ?
http://emodernbuddhism.com/

This eBook Modern Buddhism – The Path of Compassion and Wisdom, in three volumes, is being distributed freely at the request of the author Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. The author says: "Through reading and practicing the instructions given in this book, people can solve their daily problems and maintain a happy mind all the time." So that these benefits can pervade the whole world, Geshe Kelsang wishes to give this eBook freely to everyone.

We would like to request you to please respect this precious Dharma book, which functions to free living beings from suffering permanently. If you continually read and practice the advice in this book, eventually your problems caused by anger, attachment and ignorance will cease.

Please enjoy this special gift from Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, who dedicates: "May everyone who reads this book experience deep peace of mind, and accomplish the real meaning of human life."

Yeshe

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Re: Ven. Kelsang Wangmo is First Woman to Receive Geshe diploma
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2011, 01:30:06 am »
The Vajrayana has female figures of great stature but this is the first Geshe I have heard of.  How wonderful. :)

I know what it means in terms of Gelugpa, where there are Geshes and Lharampa Geshes and those who then go for Tantric training, but I had no idea Rime was more than an aspiration.

I have to admit that I had no idea Rime had adopted the title, which is very strange.  I wonder what she studied and how a curriculum was put together from the different schools.   I'm also a bit lost as to what lineage she would follow - Khyentse maybe?

Offline santamonicacj

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Re: Ven. Kelsang Wangmo is First Woman to Receive Geshe diploma
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2011, 02:23:27 am »
The Vajrayana has female figures of great stature but this is the first Geshe I have heard of.  How wonderful. :)

I know what it means in terms of Gelugpa, where there are Geshes and Lharampa Geshes and those who then go for Tantric training, but I had no idea Rime was more than an aspiration.

I have to admit that I had no idea Rime had adopted the title, which is very strange.  I wonder what she studied and how a curriculum was put together from the different schools.   I'm also a bit lost as to what lineage she would follow - Khyentse maybe?
She could follow any one she would like. As 'Geshe' is an academic degree all that would be needed is familiarity with the various schools positions and interpretations on emptiness and such. Since they are called Geshe, and since it was established by HHDL, it is probably a predominately Gelug institution, but that is my guess. I don't think "Rime" is a separate school, nor should it be.

There's a line or two about it in the link provided.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 02:26:18 am by santamonicacj »
Warning: I'm enough of a fundamentalist Tibet style Buddhist to believe that for the last 1,000 years Tibet has produced a handful of enlightened masters in every generation. I do not ask that YOU believe it, but it will greatly simplify conversations if you understand that about me. Thanks.

Yeshe

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Re: Ven. Kelsang Wangmo is First Woman to Receive Geshe diploma
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2011, 02:40:18 am »
The Vajrayana has female figures of great stature but this is the first Geshe I have heard of.  How wonderful. :)

I know what it means in terms of Gelugpa, where there are Geshes and Lharampa Geshes and those who then go for Tantric training, but I had no idea Rime was more than an aspiration.

I have to admit that I had no idea Rime had adopted the title, which is very strange.  I wonder what she studied and how a curriculum was put together from the different schools.   I'm also a bit lost as to what lineage she would follow - Khyentse maybe?
She could follow any one she would like. As 'Geshe' is an academic degree all that would be needed is familiarity with the various schools positions and interpretations on emptiness and such. Since they are called Geshe, and since it was established by HHDL, it is probably a predominately Gelug institution, but that is my guess. I don't think "Rime" is a separate school, nor should it be.

There's a line or two about it in the link provided.

I was also thinking in terms of lineage of gurus .  Google didn't turn up much but as I undertsand it whilst in the past people received empowerments form other schools, they were predominantly part of a single lineage.   I'm probably wrong, but that's why I mentioned Khyentse as a posisble lineage for her.   Or maybe Rime just don't include lineage masters in their sadhanas.

I agree that it's probably not a 'Rime' degree but a Gelugpa one, but she is attached to that new movement.   

Anyway, good news, and I hope others follow the lead and female 'monastic' ordination is accepted worldwide.

Offline zerwe

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Re: Ven. Kelsang Wangmo is First Woman to Receive Geshe diploma
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2011, 05:34:31 am »
Congratulations its a shame there are not many female Geshe's its a good job to see this boundary being broken.
So its a Rime degree ? how does that work tantra in the 4 schools is so extensive you cant possibley know it all ! ?

I think Yeshe covered this. But, the next step is tantric college (i.e., Guymed). And that doesn't necessarily qualify one to give empowerment or initiations either. ;)
I imagine that study in tantric college is probably quite exstensive. I will have to ask my teacher next time I speak with him. I don't think they could cover "it all," but it is probably as close as anyone can get.
 From what I understand many of the lineages and practices are spread across the schools and, although there are differences, the practices aren't necessarily specific to one school or the other?
Shaun :namaste:

Yeshe

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Re: Ven. Kelsang Wangmo is First Woman to Receive Geshe diploma
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2011, 06:18:16 am »
The article is clear that these as 'Rime Geshe' degrees, in fact the first to be awarded.

The core looks like the Gelugpa Geshe core, but they have added in studies from other schools.

I am assuming the Tantric colleges will recognise this degree and they can train in Tantra if they wish to.

Offline santamonicacj

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Re: Ven. Kelsang Wangmo is First Woman to Receive Geshe diploma
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2011, 08:52:58 am »
I am assuming the Tantric colleges will recognise this degree and they can train in Tantra if they wish to.
Kagyus and Nyingmas do not require Geshe or Khyentse degrees before practicing Tantra, so the question is moot for those traditions. It seems like a safe bet that if HHDL is behind the program mainstream Gelugpas will honor the degree. I don't know about how it works with Sakyas though.
Warning: I'm enough of a fundamentalist Tibet style Buddhist to believe that for the last 1,000 years Tibet has produced a handful of enlightened masters in every generation. I do not ask that YOU believe it, but it will greatly simplify conversations if you understand that about me. Thanks.

Yeshe

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Re: Ven. Kelsang Wangmo is First Woman to Receive Geshe diploma
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2011, 11:36:49 am »
I am assuming the Tantric colleges will recognise this degree and they can train in Tantra if they wish to.
Kagyus and Nyingmas do not require Geshe or Khyentse degrees before practicing Tantra, so the question is moot for those traditions. It seems like a safe bet that if HHDL is behind the program mainstream Gelugpas will honor the degree. I don't know about how it works with Sakyas though.

Good point. :)

If I had a hand in designing a Rime programme I would offer a Ngagpa qualification with the option to become monastic at the end of the training.

I do have a concern. '' His Holiness the Dalai Lama authorized the Institute for Buddhist Dialectical Studies (IBD) to award Rime Geshe degrees in 2009.''

So just 2 years later the Geshe degrees are handed out?  This does not equate to Geshe training as I understand it.  What's going on?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 12:12:21 pm by Yeshe »

Offline zerwe

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Re: Ven. Kelsang Wangmo is First Woman to Receive Geshe diploma
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2011, 12:25:53 pm »
I am assuming the Tantric colleges will recognise this degree and they can train in Tantra if they wish to.
Kagyus and Nyingmas do not require Geshe or Khyentse degrees before practicing Tantra, so the question is moot for those traditions. It seems like a safe bet that if HHDL is behind the program mainstream Gelugpas will honor the degree. I don't know about how it works with Sakyas though.

Good point. :)

If I had a hand in designing a Rime programme I would offer a Ngagpa qualification with the option to become monastic at the end of the training.

I do have a concern. '' His Holiness the Dalai Lama authorized the Institute for Buddhist Dialectical Studies (IBD) to award Rime Geshe degrees in 2009.''

So just 2 years later the Geshe degrees are handed out?  This does not equate to Geshe training as I understand it.  What's going on?

It must be that some final qualifications were added to previous study. Because, it is more like a 25 year program in total.
Shaun :namaste:

Offline zerwe

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Re: Ven. Kelsang Wangmo is First Woman to Receive Geshe diploma
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2011, 12:31:40 pm »
19 for Geshe an additional 6 for Lharam and then... tantric college.

Here is the Sera Je curriculum;

http://www.serajeymonastery.org/faculty.htm

Shaun :namaste:

Yeshe

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Re: Ven. Kelsang Wangmo is First Woman to Receive Geshe diploma
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2011, 12:48:46 pm »
19 for Geshe an additional 6 for Lharam and then... tantric college.

Here is the Sera Je curriculum;

http://www.serajeymonastery.org/faculty.htm

Shaun :namaste:


Here is the answer to my questions.  She started many years ago:

http://www.ibd-buddhism.org/GenWangmo.html







Offline santamonicacj

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Re: Ven. Kelsang Wangmo is First Woman to Receive Geshe diploma
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2011, 09:09:01 pm »
19 (years) for Geshe an additional 6 for Lharam and then... tantric college.
I don't see many Westerners waiting that long to practice tantra if they can go to the Kagyus and Nyingmas and start with it right away. So although there may be a few Western Geshes and Khenpos in the future, I think the majority of them will continue to be Himalayan.

...but I've been wrong before! ;D
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 09:11:53 pm by santamonicacj »
Warning: I'm enough of a fundamentalist Tibet style Buddhist to believe that for the last 1,000 years Tibet has produced a handful of enlightened masters in every generation. I do not ask that YOU believe it, but it will greatly simplify conversations if you understand that about me. Thanks.

 


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