Author Topic: Good place to begin studying Dzogchen?  (Read 5190 times)

Offline KarmaPolice

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Good place to begin studying Dzogchen?
« on: December 22, 2009, 04:40:17 pm »
I've just heard of Dzogchen, through Lama Surya Dos's book Awakening the Buddha Within. But, as it is meant to be more of an introduction to Buddhism, it does not discuss the views of Dzogchen in any significant detail. Does anyone have any good resources through which I could learn more about this practice?
Breathing in, we are born
Breathing out, we die
Our life, lasting but the space between them
A mere moment, in an infinite history


Attachment is a choice. The choice to be free of attachment has existed from the moment we first made the choice to be attached. We just get so used to making choices based on attachment that we never realize that we're actually making choices at all.

Offline humanitas

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Re: Good place to begin studying Dzogchen?
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2009, 05:39:52 pm »
Amazon Search

As I have not yet gotten into Dzogchen there are none I can personally recommend, but a search at amazon yielded these results, if anyone knows any of these that might be a good place to start.... :namaste:
This post was made with 100% recycled karma

Offline caritas

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Re: Good place to begin studying Dzogchen?
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2009, 12:11:00 pm »
I've just heard of Dzogchen, through Lama Surya Dos's book Awakening the Buddha Within. But, as it is meant to be more of an introduction to Buddhism, it does not discuss the views of Dzogchen in any significant detail. Does anyone have any good resources through which I could learn more about this practice?
Dzogchen requires a teacher because it is experientially based, rather than a purely intellectual tradition. There are many, many books to read, with many words, but those words will be misleading without the View provided by a teacher.

In general you will probably want to cultivate tranquility and concentration in the beginning, the same way as any Buddhist path. Follow those roads, and be on the look-out for a qualified (probably) Kagyu or Nyingma (or mixed lineage) teacher, and you will learn Dzogchen.

Offline KarmaPolice

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Re: Good place to begin studying Dzogchen?
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2009, 03:23:40 pm »
Thanks for the link, 0gyen. :)

Quote
Dzogchen requires a teacher because it is experientially based, rather than a purely intellectual tradition. There are many, many books to read, with many words, but those words will be misleading without the View provided by a teacher.

In general you will probably want to cultivate tranquility and concentration in the beginning, the same way as any Buddhist path. Follow those roads, and be on the look-out for a qualified (probably) Kagyu or Nyingma (or mixed lineage) teacher, and you will learn Dzogchen.
Yeah, I can understand that. I'm not looking to adopt this practice--at this early stage, I feel as though joining a specific school is unnecessary--just to understand those views of Dzogchen that can be explained in words. There is a temple of the Drikung Kagyu lineage fairly close to where I live when school is in session, so I will check that place out. Thanks! :)
Breathing in, we are born
Breathing out, we die
Our life, lasting but the space between them
A mere moment, in an infinite history


Attachment is a choice. The choice to be free of attachment has existed from the moment we first made the choice to be attached. We just get so used to making choices based on attachment that we never realize that we're actually making choices at all.

Chaz

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Re: Good place to begin studying Dzogchen?
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2009, 04:47:42 pm »
I've just heard of Dzogchen, through Lama Surya Dos's book Awakening the Buddha Within. But, as it is meant to be more of an introduction to Buddhism, it does not discuss the views of Dzogchen in any significant detail. Does anyone have any good resources through which I could learn more about this practice?

You might take a look at "Wild Awakening: The Heart of Mahamudra and Dzogchen" by the Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche.

It's a good overview.  Finding a book that gets into the meat of either practice will be difficult, though.


Offline swampflower

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Re: Good place to begin studying Dzogchen?
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2010, 03:44:01 pm »
 Dzogchen: Heart Essence of the Great Perfection by HH Dalai Lama.
His Holiness explains the fundamentals of Dzogchen as told in four teachings to Westerners in North America and Europe in the 1980's.
HH puts Nyingma Dzogchen in perspective with other Buddhist traditions in a Rime type of presentation.
 :anjali:
Om Tare Tutare Svaha

"All that we are is the result of what we have thought.  The mind is everything.  What we think we become." Buddha Sakyamuni

Offline Tom69

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Re: Good place to begin studying Dzogchen?
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2010, 09:46:16 am »

You might want to check out anything written by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche check amazon, even better listen to one of his webcasts

The Crystal and the Way of the Light is a great read -CHNN-

www.dzogchencommunity.net/webcast
http://www.dzogchen.it/

I also highly recommend Lopon Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche a Bon teacher who teaches Dzogchen

http://www.yungdrung-bon.net/page/espagnol/E-BIO_LOPONTN.html

You could try reading

heartdrops of the darmakaya

http://www.amazon.com/Heart-Drops-Dharmakaya-Dzogchen-Tradition/dp/1559391723

Hope this helps

Tom


Offline Bodhicandra

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Re: Good place to begin studying Dzogchen?
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2010, 03:40:05 pm »
'Never Turn Away', by my Lama, Rigdzin Shikpo, is probably as close as you can get to the inner 'feel' of Dzogchen without having a teacher.

However, a teacher is essential for Dzogchen - the path has to transcend conceptual thinking; I know of no book that can do that for you.

'Never Turn Away' at Amazon:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Never-Turn-Away-Buddhist-Beyond/dp/0861714881/
"Your first task on the path is to learn to stop being a nuisance to the world"
adapted from Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche

Offline Vajrahridaya

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Re: Good place to begin studying Dzogchen?
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2010, 12:31:39 am »
Yes, Direct introduction from a genuine lineage master is absolutely necessary for Dzogchen.  Even if you have the karma to get some good stuff from beyond the 5 senses?  You might as well blend the karma with this realm and get some person to person with a living on Earth teacher of this path.  It's highly, highly beneficial!  Plus... then you know for sure you got the transmission or are even open to this particular path. =)

Offline rabten

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Re: Good place to begin studying Dzogchen?
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2010, 11:16:18 pm »
'The Practice of Dzogchen' - Longchenpa.


I've only read a pinch of it. It is very thorough.

Good luck with your studies.

rabten

Offline santamonicacj

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Re: Good place to begin studying Dzogchen?
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2010, 07:54:50 pm »
I feel as though joining a specific school is unnecessary--just to understand those views of Dzogchen that can be explained in words. There is a temple of the Drikung Kagyu lineage fairly close to where I live when school is in session, so I will check that place out. Thanks! :)
The Drikungpas will probably have more info on Chakchen (Skt. Mahamudra) than Dzogchen (Skt. Maha Ati). Very very similar, but slightly different. You'll probably have to go find a Nyingma lama if you want to talk about Dzogchen. Other schools will have it but it is not the main thrust of any school other than Nyingma. (And Bon, and I don't know about Jonang.)

Maybe Mahamudra is just a appropriate for you, or maybe you really have some sort of karmic connection with Dzogchen. Either way the actual practice is quite advanced. If you just want the 'view' books will probably keep you busy for a while.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 07:57:22 pm by santamonicacj »
Warning: I'm enough of a fundamentalist Tibet style Buddhist to believe that for the last 1,000 years Tibet has produced a handful of enlightened masters in every generation. I do not ask that YOU believe it, but it will greatly simplify conversations if you understand that about me. Thanks.

Offline rabten

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Re: Good place to begin studying Dzogchen?
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2010, 11:12:24 pm »
I feel as though joining a specific school is unnecessary--just to understand those views of Dzogchen that can be explained in words. There is a temple of the Drikung Kagyu lineage fairly close to where I live when school is in session, so I will check that place out. Thanks! :)
The Drikungpas will probably have more info on Chakchen (Skt. Mahamudra) than Dzogchen (Skt. Maha Ati). Very very similar, but slightly different. You'll probably have to go find a Nyingma lama if you want to talk about Dzogchen. Other schools will have it but it is not the main thrust of any school other than Nyingma. (And Bon, and I don't know about Jonang.)

Maybe Mahamudra is just a appropriate for you, or maybe you really have some sort of karmic connection with Dzogchen. Either way the actual practice is quite advanced. If you just want the 'view' books will probably keep you busy for a while.


Um.. i know of Kagyu Lamas which are known as Dzogchen masters as well as Mahamudra Masters. They teach extensively on both. But what you say is probably true, but i just wanted to inform the OP that Dzogchen isn't strictly limited to Nyingma. For instance my first Dzogchen teachings were given by my lama who is a Kagyu lineage holder. Also i'm pretty sure that one of the past Karmarpa's wrote a commentary on Dzogchen. Karma Nyinthig??
Anyway, i'm probably speaking out of my depths here.


Offline santamonicacj

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Re: Good place to begin studying Dzogchen?
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2010, 12:09:43 am »
Um.. i know of Kagyu Lamas which are known as Dzogchen masters as well as Mahamudra Masters. They teach extensively on both. But what you say is probably true, but i just wanted to inform the OP that Dzogchen isn't strictly limited to Nyingma. For instance my first Dzogchen teachings were given by my lama who is a Kagyu lineage holder. Also i'm pretty sure that one of the past Karmarpa's wrote a commentary on Dzogchen. Karma Nyinthig??
Anyway, i'm probably speaking out of my depths here.
No, you're right. But historically the Tilopa, Naropa, Saraha, Maitripa, Marpa, Milarepa lineage is of Mahamudra and the Six Yogas. Many Kagyus have included Dzogchen into their vocabulary of practices but it's not their specialty.
Warning: I'm enough of a fundamentalist Tibet style Buddhist to believe that for the last 1,000 years Tibet has produced a handful of enlightened masters in every generation. I do not ask that YOU believe it, but it will greatly simplify conversations if you understand that about me. Thanks.

Offline haydenlaw

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Re: Good place to begin studying Dzogchen?
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2010, 07:13:39 am »
The Drikung Kagyu lineage has their own lineage of Dzogchen teachings.  In addition, other Kagyu masters have also been known as Dzogchen masters - one of the best known of these is Togden Shakya Shri (1853-1919).  http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Tokden_Shakya_Shri  His biography, The Life and Liberation of a Tibetan Yogin has just appeared and is a very inspiring book.  More recently, Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche (1920-1996) was a master in both Kagyu and Nyingma lineages and taught extensively.  His sons, Tsoknyi Rinpoche, Mingyur Rinpoche, and Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche are very well known and often teach in the US.

H

Offline santamonicacj

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Re: Good place to begin studying Dzogchen?
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2010, 12:44:08 pm »
Pizza comes from Italy and sauerkraut from Germany. But you can get pizza in Germany and sauerkraut in Italy. There is no exclusive boundary to it.

Mahamudra comes from Kagyus (and Sakyas)* and Dzogchen from Nyingmas. You can find Kagyus that know Dzogchen and Ningmas that know Mahamudra. I'm not saying that the practices are exclusive to each sect. But you will always find the Kagyus have Mahamudra and always find the Nyingmas have Dzogchen. Whether or not they have the other practice is an added option.

They are almost the same anyway.




*The Gelug school also practices Mahamudra but they got it from the Kagyus. The Kagyus and Sakyas brought it into Tibet from India.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 12:54:43 pm by santamonicacj »
Warning: I'm enough of a fundamentalist Tibet style Buddhist to believe that for the last 1,000 years Tibet has produced a handful of enlightened masters in every generation. I do not ask that YOU believe it, but it will greatly simplify conversations if you understand that about me. Thanks.

 


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