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Schools of Buddhism => Vajrayana => Dzogchen => Topic started by: tenzintharpa on January 09, 2017, 02:58:46 am

Title: What is the Dzogchen/Nyngma assertion of how conventional phenomena exists?
Post by: tenzintharpa on January 09, 2017, 02:58:46 am
I am a Gelug practitioner and understand Tsongkhapa’s view but am a little confused on the different views of conventional phenomena held by other schools of Tibetan Buddhism. 
According to the Dzogchen and/or Nyngma, does conventional phenomena:
A) Exist as Illusion, existing only as a projection of the mind, (literally unreal).
B) Exist as Illusion ‘like’; real but existing in an ethereal manner, lacking any inherent true essence; nominally existent.
C) Do Dzogchen and/or Nyngma deny the existence of conventional phenomena and/or matter?

Gelug presentation
The Buddha often described life as dream-like but he never asserted that life was a dream or that phenomenon did not actually exist.

Observed phenomenon don’t exist as mere images, projections or visions in the mind but rather exists as separate entities from the mind. The mind and matter are two separate things. Matter is separate from the mind that cognizes and dominates it. And although observed phenomenon are not simply created by a mind, their ultimate mode of existence is dependent upon the mind, so the mind doesn’t create the matter but the matter is dependent on the mind that imputes it as the imputer. Therefore, their mode of existence is separate from the imputer but their existence is dependent upon the imputer. Their mode of existence is separate but their existence is dependent. Nothing can exist independently from the mind which perceives it. ~ Dalai Lama
Title: Re: What is the Dzogchen/Nyngma assertion of how conventional phenomena exists?
Post by: ground on June 20, 2017, 01:21:25 pm
I am a Gelug practitioner and understand Tsongkhapa’s view but am a little confused on the different views of conventional phenomena held by other schools of Tibetan Buddhism. 
According to the Dzogchen and/or Nyngma, does conventional phenomena:
A) Exist as Illusion, existing only as a projection of the mind, (literally unreal).
B) Exist as Illusion ‘like’; real but existing in an ethereal manner, lacking any inherent true essence; nominally existent.
C) Do Dzogchen and/or Nyngma deny the existence of conventional phenomena and/or matter?
In short: conventional phenomena, all internal phenomena and all external phenomena, and all states of mind are the self-manifestation of the ground of being which is self-knowing awareness ('rigpa').
Title: Re: What is the Dzogchen/Nyngma assertion of how conventional phenomena exists?
Post by: AlwaysDayAfterYesterday on June 20, 2017, 01:35:17 pm
Correct view of how maya manifests will help you then see the intent of Dzogchen.  In physics, the basis of reality is the strong force, which follows laws of invariant symmetry.  These are the constants holding the fabric of space / time (Maya) in place as a hologram.  The strong force is both Proton (+) and Neutron (neutral).  Neutral / Positive is the literal nature of the Universe, where manifestation of this force is seen in traits like a human's ability to discern rather than judge.  Judgement would be a negative emotional trait, while discernment would be a neutral / positive trait.  Electrons (-) do not follow the laws of invariance, but instead, translate symmetry with imbalance.  This imbalance then allows for the early state of the universe (high order with lower entropy) to differentiate energy into Maya.  This comes at a cost, however, since inmbalance in any system will cause decay / entropy / death.  The reason for rebirth is Dukkha, or the imbalanced wheel of nature (Tao 11 out of balance).

While death and suffering are required for this, this expedient means is the only way to differentiate the first mind of existence.  Otherwise, only a mirror of self is possible.  With imbalance, the new image cast into Tamas can rise through Rajas and again gain union (Yoga) with the first face (Sattva) of the being at birth.  This time, karma clings and allows differentiation to occur so the new being in union with it's female (wandering sheep below) can be a new individual.  Birth of a new mind can only occur if it breaks symmetry, which in physics is called translational symmetry, leaving the invariance untouched.  Look this up on WIKI (Translational Symmetry). 

Dzogchen is the neutral / positive state holding the image together (Strong House).  Suffering can be removed when a person balances nature back again in themselves. 

 
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