Author Topic: "Do not despise the young"....."I dare not disparage you..."  (Read 1250 times)

Offline t

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"Do not despise the young"....."I dare not disparage you..."
« on: February 24, 2010, 06:31:18 am »
Heard it all before huh?
Condescending characters...who have no qualms in drowning others whom they estimate as 'unequal'...'young'...'newbie'...
And yes...they are even in Buddhist Forums...

And here's some reflections....
Quote
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn03/sn03.001.than.html
"But Master Gotama, those priests & contemplatives each with his group, each with his community, each the teacher of his group, an honored leader, well-regarded by people at large — i.e., Purana Kassapa, Makkhali Gosala, Ajita Kesakambalin, Pakudha Kaccayana, Sañjaya Belatthaputta, and the Nigantha Nathaputta: even they, when I asked them whether they claimed to have awakened to the unexcelled right self-awakening, didn't make that claim. So who is Master Gotama to do so when he is still young & newly gone-forth?"

"There are these four things, great king, that shouldn't be despised & disparaged for being young. Which four?
A noble warrior, great king, shouldn't be despised & disparaged for being young. A snake... A fire... And a monk shouldn't be despised & disparaged for being young. These are the four things that shouldn't be despised & disparaged for being young."

That is what the Blessed One said. Having said that, the One Well-Gone, the Teacher, said further:
You shouldn't look down on —
for being young — a noble warrior of consummate birth, a high-born prince of great status.
A person shouldn't disparage him.
For it's possible that this lord of human beings,
this noble warrior, will gain the throne and, angered at that disparagement,
come down harshly with his royal might.
So, guarding your life, avoid him.

You shouldn't look down on — for being young —
a serpent you meet in village or wilderness:
A person shouldn't disparage it.
As that potent snake slithers along with vibrant colors,
it may someday burn the fool, whether woman or man.
So, guarding your life, avoid it.

You shouldn't look down on — for being young —
a blaze that feeds on many things, a flame with its blackened trail:
A person shouldn't disparage it.
For if it gains sustenance, becoming a great mass of flame,
it may someday burn the fool, whether woman or man.
So, guarding your life, avoid it.

When a fire burns down a forest — that flame with its blackened trail —
the shoots there take birth once more with the passage of days & nights.
But if a monk, his virtue consummate, burns you with his potency,
you won't acquire sons or cattle nor will your heirs enjoy wealth.

They become barren, heir-less, like palm tree stumps.
So a person who's wise, out of regard for his own good,
should always show due respect
for a serpent,
a fire,
a noble warrior with high status,
& a monk, his virtue consummate.

Quote
http://lotus.nichirenshu.org/lotus/sutra/english/watson/lsw_chap20.htm
At this time there was a bodhisattva monk named Never Disparaging. Now, Gainer of Great Authority, for what reason was he named Never Disparaging? This monk, whatever persons he happened to meet, whether monks, nuns, Laymen or laywomen, would bow in obeisance to all of them and speak words of praise, saying, 'I have profound reverence for you, I would never dare treat you with disparaging and arrogance. Why? Because you are all practicing the bodhisattva way and are certain to attain Buddhahood.'

"This monk did not devote his time to reading or reciting the scriptures, but simply want about bowing to people. And if he happened to see any of the four kinds of believers far off in the distance, he would purposely go to where they were, bow to them and speak words of praise, saying, 'I would never dare disparage you, because you are all certain to attain Buddhahood!'

"Among the four kinds of believers there were the those who gave way to anger, their minds lacking in purity, and they spoke ill of him and cursed him, saying, 'This ignorant monk - were does he come from, presuming to declare that he does not disparage us and bestowing on us a prediction that we will attain Buddhahood? We have no use for such vain and irresponsible predictions!'

"Many years passed in this way, during which this monk was constantly subjected to curses and abuse. He did not give way to anger, however, but each time spoke the same words, 'You are certain to attain Buddhahood.' When he spoke in this manner, some among the group would take sticks of wood or tiles and stones and beat and pelt him. But even as he ran away and took up his stance at a distance, he continued to call out in a loud voice, ' I would never dare disparage you, for you are all certain to attain Buddhahood!'
And because he always spoke these words, the overbearing arrogant monks, nuns, laymen and laywomen gave him the name Never Disparaging

Maitri  :namaste:

Offline katersy

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Re: "Do not despise the young"....."I dare not disparage you..."
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2010, 10:05:13 am »
Hi t

No offence, but your post here made me think of what you wrote on another discussion thread (the one about Eckhart Tolle):

Quote
Doesn't take much for a discerning Buddhist to see through his statements in my opinion but it must be said that there will be people who may need Tolle's 'inspiring' values and perspectives for that moment and stage of life and then there will come the time when as St Paul, the Apostle opined in his letter to the Corinthian community, 'When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child. But, when I became a man, I put away the things of a child.'

Not meant as a personal attack. The reason I am bothered by this apparent incongruity is because I myself am frightened and insecure about being "spiritually immature" and therefore often feel attacked or threatened when people suggest that this might be the case. (a bit of emotional honesty for you there).

Katy
"Everything has been figured out, except how to live."

"She believed in nothing; Only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist."

Offline t

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Re: "Do not despise the young"....."I dare not disparage you..."
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2010, 11:35:13 am »
Quote
Not meant as a personal attack.

 :anjali:
Quote
The reason I am bothered by this apparent incongruity is because I myself am frightened and insecure about being "spiritually immature" and therefore often feel attacked or threatened when people suggest that this might be the case. (a bit of emotional honesty for you there).

Here's a thought....
Quote
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.059.than.html
"...Is feeling constant or inconstant?"
"Inconstant, lord."...
"And is that which is inconstant easeful or stressful?"
"Stressful, lord."
"And is it fitting to regard what is inconstant, stressful, subject to change as: 'This is mine. This is my self. This is what I am'?"
"No, lord."
"Any feeling whatsoever...that is past, future, or present; internal or external; blatant or subtle; common or sublime; far or near:
every feeling is to be seen as it actually is with right discernment as: 'This is not mine. This is not my self. This is not what I am.'

Quote
http://www.freesangha.com/forums/index.php?topic=841.0
Anyone read any of his books?
Thoughts?
Part One of statement: 'Thought no.1'
Doesn't take much for a discerning Buddhist to see through his statements in my opinion
a. This is a Buddhist Forum,
b. a thread was raised in the 'General Buddhism Discussion' Forum,
c. subject on 'Eckhart Tolle' and the reading of his books was raised,
d. 'thoughts' of member posters were asked for: amongst them would be those who are familiar/well versed with the Dharma (and never mind too if not, for there will be responses from others) and can see the difference in what the Buddha taught and what Eckhart taught....hence the usage of: 'discerning Buddhist...'. Objective: To get all here, to see Eckhart's writings (as provided in a snippet) in a critical review/perspective from the Dharma's POV.     

Part Two of statement: 'Thought no.2'
'...but it must be said that there will be people who may need Tolle's 'inspiring' values and perspectives for that moment and stage of life...' Everybody's life goes through stages...mine included, at one time found this or that inspiring for the moment, day, week, month, year, decade...and then after that, when they find another 'more inspiring one', they move on...then there are those who find that ONE inspiring ideal/teaching or whatever that is known and then sticks to it for the rest of one's life...and so goes on the other possible combinations of one's spiritual walk in life...
Self-evolution comes to mind...devoid of notions of 'high' or 'low', 'novice' or 'advance'...

Part Three of statement: 'Thought no.3'
and then there will come the time when as St Paul, the Apostle opined in his letter to the Corinthian community, 'When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child. But, when I became a man, I put away the things of a child.' http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm
Refer back to Part Two...'self-evolution'...
As a Buddhist, my priority is given to the Buddha's Teachings.
Naturally as a Buddhist, Eckhart's writings and claims will be critically evaluated in the light and perspective of the Dharma, wouldn't it?
Another e.g. if I am an employee of say the Hilton Hotels and I visit the Fourseasons Hotels & Resorts, it would be natural for me to evaluate FSH&R in the light of Hilton's standards and expectations and come to my own conclusions as to whether the latter 'matches' up or not, isn't it?
Now, if I decided that FSH&R is the one for me and in my own estimation, Hilton is somewhat 'lacking', would I not move on?
Hence, the example quote from St Paul...
So, previously, in my own opinion, if I thought that the message of Eckhart was so surreal and wonderful, but when I encountered the Buddha's Teaching, somehow, the latter enabled and empowered me to 'move on' and consider another level of understanding...and regard what I used to know on Eckhart as one level of conventional wisdom but now, the Dharma, to me, becomes the ultimate level of wisdom.
Hence, as a Buddhist, it would be natural for me to relinquish the former and adopt the latter..as expressed in the Dhammapada...
Quote
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/dhp/dhp.21.budd.html
If by renouncing a lesser happiness one may realize a greater happiness, let the wise man renounce the lesser, having regard for the greater.


Quote
(a bit of emotional honesty for you there)

I always loved a pot of tea and it tastes better when shared...care to have a cup?

Offline FaDao

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Re: "Do not despise the young"....."I dare not disparage you..."
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2010, 11:43:31 am »
Every "student" is a teacher and every "teacher" is a student. One who has been on the path for ten minutes may guide another who has been on the path for only five minutes. The fresh insights of the new traveler may challenge the older traveler to revisit ideas that need to be revisited.

We all learn from one another and we all teach one another. Only our egos elevate one traveler from another. Only ego makes us hide our "silly questions."

The only "silly question" is the one that was not asked. Without a question, no one can explore the answers.

Namo Amitofo
- Fa Dao -

Offline Ron-the-Elder

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Re: "Do not despise the young"....."I dare not disparage you..."
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2010, 02:42:39 pm »
Here's another couple for your consideration:

"They who teach learn twice!  And, often more!"

"A blind person can easily lead another blind into into a ditch with smiles on both their faces!"

"A blind person led into a ditch may at first be astonished and confused, but then hires a lawyer!"

 :namaste:

Every "student" is a teacher and every "teacher" is a student. One who has been on the path for ten minutes may guide another who has been on the path for only five minutes. The fresh insights of the new traveler may challenge the older traveler to revisit ideas that need to be revisited.

We all learn from one another and we all teach one another. Only our egos elevate one traveler from another. Only ego makes us hide our "silly questions."

The only "silly question" is the one that was not asked. Without a question, no one can explore the answers.

Namo Amitofo
- Fa Dao -
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

Offline Spiny Norman

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Re: "Do not despise the young"....."I dare not disparage you..."
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2010, 04:26:56 am »
We all learn from one another and we all teach one another. Only our egos elevate one traveler from another. Only ego makes us hide our "silly questions."

Good observation.

Spiny

 


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