Author Topic: Adult Dhamma vs. Special Dhamma  (Read 1952 times)

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Adult Dhamma vs. Special Dhamma
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2017, 05:55:56 am »
Adult behaviour is to spare nothing from rational analysis.

To the Kalama the Buddha taught, that it is of less value to follow those who do not see the tree because of so much forest in their proclaimed refrigerator-emptiness. Seeing just words, they (some of them) would possible turn from the "alike" to those actually leading a holly live and do what they proclaim by the means of a given path of maintain.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2017, 06:01:37 am by Samana Johann »
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Offline ground

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Re: Adult Dhamma vs. Special Dhamma
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2017, 06:01:45 am »
Adult behaviour is to spare nothing from rational analysis.
yes, provided an adult who has been educated according to current common knowledge and who has learned in school to think rationally.
This cannot be assumed to be the case with children. So 'adult' here is not meant to denigrate children

To the Kalama the Buddha taught, that it is of less value to follow those who do not see the tree because of so much forest in their proclaimed refrigerator-emptiness. Seeing just words, they (some of them) would possible turn from the "alike" to those actually leading a holly live and do what they proclaim by the means of a given path of maintain.
you are entitled to your elitist thinking but that has nothing to do with rational thinking.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2017, 06:05:18 am by ground »

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Adult Dhamma vs. Special Dhamma
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2017, 06:08:14 am »
Adult behaviour is to spare nothing from rational analysis.
yes, provided an adult who has been educated according to current common knowledge and who has learned in school to think rationally.
This cannot be assumed to be the case with children. So 'adult' here is not meant to denigrate children

To the Kalama the Buddha taught, that it is of less value to follow those who do not see the tree because of so much forest in their proclaimed refrigerator-emptiness. Seeing just words, they (some of them) would possible turn from the "alike" to those actually leading a holly live and do what they proclaim by the means of a given path of maintain.
you are entitled to your elitist thinking but that has nothing to do with rational thinking.
So Ground assumes that the distinction between adult and child lies in a education to think in certain rational convention? That would be again an really empty statement of no use, or does he like to decorate this voidness of advice?

Rational thinking educated counted to a cast. So what else after the own tail Ground runs after?
« Last Edit: June 24, 2017, 06:11:03 am by Samana Johann »
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Offline ground

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Re: Adult Dhamma vs. Special Dhamma
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2017, 06:13:33 am »
Adult behaviour is to spare nothing from rational analysis.
yes, provided an adult who has been educated according to current common knowledge and who has learned in school to think rationally.
This cannot be assumed to be the case with children. So 'adult' here is not meant to denigrate children

To the Kalama the Buddha taught, that it is of less value to follow those who do not see the tree because of so much forest in their proclaimed refrigerator-emptiness. Seeing just words, they (some of them) would possible turn from the "alike" to those actually leading a holly live and do what they proclaim by the means of a given path of maintain.
you are entitled to your elitist thinking but that has nothing to do with rational thinking.
So Ground assumes that the distinction between adult and child lies in a education to think in certain rational convention? That would be again an really empty statement of no use.

Well, since I have written 'provided an adult who has been ...' there are also adults who behave like children.

What is childish behaviour? It is to be guided by emotions, guided by wishing and hoping, guided by fear and beliefs and not being able to apply rationality to overcome emotions, to overcome wishful thinking and hoping, to overcome fear and beliefs.

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Adult Dhamma vs. Special Dhamma
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2017, 06:29:46 am »
Adult behaviour is to spare nothing from rational analysis.
yes, provided an adult who has been educated according to current common knowledge and who has learned in school to think rationally.
This cannot be assumed to be the case with children. So 'adult' here is not meant to denigrate children

To the Kalama the Buddha taught, that it is of less value to follow those who do not see the tree because of so much forest in their proclaimed refrigerator-emptiness. Seeing just words, they (some of them) would possible turn from the "alike" to those actually leading a holly live and do what they proclaim by the means of a given path of maintain.
you are entitled to your elitist thinking but that has nothing to do with rational thinking.
So Ground assumes that the distinction between adult and child lies in a education to think in certain rational convention? That would be again an really empty statement of no use.

Well, since I have written 'provided an adult who has been ...' there are also adults who behave like children.

What is childish behaviour? It is to be guided by emotions, guided by wishing and hoping, guided by fear and beliefs and not being able to apply rationality to overcome emotions, to overcome wishful thinking and hoping, to overcome fear and beliefs.

Such requires faith at first place. Never having seen the effects of walking like an adult, it's meaningless to give up the cause of the path at first place.

And knowing for one self does not derive from ratio but fromseeing. Just in case of judging a teacher in advanced it does, to turn away for what is rational nonsens (like dwelling in emptiness next a refrigerator and filling it). Therefore the samples to learn that, to the Kalamas, in that regard and the sutta ends with having given possibility to develope faith. And seemingly faith in the Gems had been developed.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2017, 06:35:13 am by Samana Johann »
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Offline ground

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Re: Adult Dhamma vs. Special Dhamma
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2017, 10:48:52 am »
Adult behaviour is to spare nothing from rational analysis.
yes, provided an adult who has been educated according to current common knowledge and who has learned in school to think rationally.
This cannot be assumed to be the case with children. So 'adult' here is not meant to denigrate children

To the Kalama the Buddha taught, that it is of less value to follow those who do not see the tree because of so much forest in their proclaimed refrigerator-emptiness. Seeing just words, they (some of them) would possible turn from the "alike" to those actually leading a holly live and do what they proclaim by the means of a given path of maintain.
you are entitled to your elitist thinking but that has nothing to do with rational thinking.
So Ground assumes that the distinction between adult and child lies in a education to think in certain rational convention? That would be again an really empty statement of no use.

Well, since I have written 'provided an adult who has been ...' there are also adults who behave like children.

What is childish behaviour? It is to be guided by emotions, guided by wishing and hoping, guided by fear and beliefs and not being able to apply rationality to overcome emotions, to overcome wishful thinking and hoping, to overcome fear and beliefs.

Such requires faith at first place.
I had faith in my intellectual capabilitities and that led to imperturbable certainty based on rational analysis.

Never having seen the effects of walking like an adult, it's meaningless to give up the cause of the path at first place.
There is no cause in the sense that followers of causal paths think.


And knowing for one self does not derive from ratio but fromseeing.
Seeing as a case of direct perception, yes.

Just in case of judging a teacher in advanced it does, to turn away for what is rational nonsens (like dwelling in emptiness next a refrigerator and filling it). Therefore the samples to learn that, to the Kalamas, in that regard and the sutta ends with having given possibility to develope faith. And seemingly faith in the Gems had been developed.
Here you are again. Good old Hanzze that never changes.  :teehee: I am not one of the Kalamas and will never be. So please direct your sermons to the Kalamas, not to me.

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Adult Dhamma vs. Special Dhamma
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2017, 04:46:55 pm »
Adult behaviour is to spare nothing from rational analysis.
yes, provided an adult who has been educated according to current common knowledge and who has learned in school to think rationally.
This cannot be assumed to be the case with children. So 'adult' here is not meant to denigrate children

To the Kalama the Buddha taught, that it is of less value to follow those who do not see the tree because of so much forest in their proclaimed refrigerator-emptiness. Seeing just words, they (some of them) would possible turn from the "alike" to those actually leading a holly live and do what they proclaim by the means of a given path of maintain.
you are entitled to your elitist thinking but that has nothing to do with rational thinking.
So Ground assumes that the distinction between adult and child lies in a education to think in certain rational convention? That would be again an really empty statement of no use.

Well, since I have written 'provided an adult who has been ...' there are also adults who behave like children.

What is childish behaviour? It is to be guided by emotions, guided by wishing and hoping, guided by fear and beliefs and not being able to apply rationality to overcome emotions, to overcome wishful thinking and hoping, to overcome fear and beliefs.

Such requires faith at first place.
I had faith in my intellectual capabilitities and that led to imperturbable certainty based on rational analysis.
And where did it brought you aside of a skill to maintain certain sankharas? Still holding on house.

Never having seen the effects of walking like an adult, it's meaningless to give up the cause of the path at first place.
There is no cause in the sense that followers of causal paths think.
6 years before Ground had been wiser

And knowing for one self does not derive from ratio but fromseeing.
Seeing as a case of direct perception, yes.
No, perception (saññā) is not seeing. Just a "Vor-stellung" of a remembered matter.
Just in case of judging a teacher in advanced it does, to turn away for what is rational nonsens (like dwelling in emptiness next a refrigerator and filling it). Therefore the samples to learn that, to the Kalamas, in that regard and the sutta ends with having given possibility to develope faith. And seemingly faith in the Gems had been developed.
Here you are again. Good old Hanzze that never changes.  :teehee: I am not one of the Kalamas and will never be. So please direct your sermons to the Kalamas, not to me.
So you are One... a never be One, our both, spontaneously running away. That's the Nature of mind having found emptiness in ignorance, dwelling in maya. Of course Ground is more of the preachers approaching them occationly.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2017, 10:33:56 pm by Samana Johann »
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Offline ground

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Re: Adult Dhamma vs. Special Dhamma
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2017, 10:37:11 pm »
Adult behaviour is to spare nothing from rational analysis.
yes, provided an adult who has been educated according to current common knowledge and who has learned in school to think rationally.
This cannot be assumed to be the case with children. So 'adult' here is not meant to denigrate children

To the Kalama the Buddha taught, that it is of less value to follow those who do not see the tree because of so much forest in their proclaimed refrigerator-emptiness. Seeing just words, they (some of them) would possible turn from the "alike" to those actually leading a holly live and do what they proclaim by the means of a given path of maintain.
you are entitled to your elitist thinking but that has nothing to do with rational thinking.
So Ground assumes that the distinction between adult and child lies in a education to think in certain rational convention? That would be again an really empty statement of no use.

Well, since I have written 'provided an adult who has been ...' there are also adults who behave like children.

What is childish behaviour? It is to be guided by emotions, guided by wishing and hoping, guided by fear and beliefs and not being able to apply rationality to overcome emotions, to overcome wishful thinking and hoping, to overcome fear and beliefs.

Such requires faith at first place.
I had faith in my intellectual capabilitities and that led to imperturbable certainty based on rational analysis.
And where did it brought you aside of a skill to maintain certain sankharas? Still holding on house.
I am liberated and there is nothing more to do. Everything is perfect.

Never having seen the effects of walking like an adult, it's meaningless to give up the cause of the path at first place.
There is no cause in the sense that followers of causal paths think.
6 year before Groun had been wiser
I've been already liberated then but I just did not know.

And knowing for one self does not derive from ratio but fromseeing.
Seeing as a case of direct perception, yes.
No, perception (saññā) is not seeing. Just a "Vor-stellung" of a remembered matter.
There are several kinds of direct perception. One category is introspection and the other sense perception. And among sense perceptions 'seeing' is one of five.

Just in case of judging a teacher in advanced it does, to turn away for what is rational nonsens (like dwelling in emptiness next a refrigerator and filling it). Therefore the samples to learn that, to the Kalamas, in that regard and the sutta ends with having given possibility to develope faith. And seemingly faith in the Gems had been developed.
Quote
Here you are again. Good old Hanzze that never changes.  :teehee: I am not one of the Kalamas and will never be. So please direct your sermons to the Kalamas, not to me.
So you are One... a never be One, our both, spontaneously running away. That's the Nature of mind having found emptiness in ignorance, dwelling in maya. Of course Ground is more of the preachers approaching them occationly.
[/quote]


I have nothing to teach. I am expressing 'my self' here. People may read, think about, ignore or reject my expressions. Certainty does not depend on how people react to the expression of what one knows for oneself.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2017, 10:42:35 pm by ground »

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Adult Dhamma vs. Special Dhamma
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2017, 11:00:16 pm »
Adult behaviour is to spare nothing from rational analysis.
yes, provided an adult who has been educated according to current common knowledge and who has learned in school to think rationally.
This cannot be assumed to be the case with children. So 'adult' here is not meant to denigrate children

To the Kalama the Buddha taught, that it is of less value to follow those who do not see the tree because of so much forest in their proclaimed refrigerator-emptiness. Seeing just words, they (some of them) would possible turn from the "alike" to those actually leading a holly live and do what they proclaim by the means of a given path of maintain.
you are entitled to your elitist thinking but that has nothing to do with rational thinking.
So Ground assumes that the distinction between adult and child lies in a education to think in certain rational convention? That would be again an really empty statement of no use.

Well, since I have written 'provided an adult who has been ...' there are also adults who behave like children.

What is childish behaviour? It is to be guided by emotions, guided by wishing and hoping, guided by fear and beliefs and not being able to apply rationality to overcome emotions, to overcome wishful thinking and hoping, to overcome fear and beliefs.

Such requires faith at first place.
I had faith in my intellectual capabilitities and that led to imperturbable certainty based on rational analysis.
And where did it brought you aside of a skill to maintain certain sankharas? Still holding on house.
I am liberated and there is nothing more to do. Everything is perfect.

Never having seen the effects of walking like an adult, it's meaningless to give up the cause of the path at first place.
There is no cause in the sense that followers of causal paths think.
6 year before Groun had been wiser
I've been already liberated then but I just did not know.

And knowing for one self does not derive from ratio but fromseeing.
Seeing as a case of direct perception, yes.
No, perception (saññā) is not seeing. Just a "Vor-stellung" of a remembered matter.
There are several kinds of direct perception. One category is introspection and the other sense perception. And among sense perceptions 'seeing' is one of five.

Just in case of judging a teacher in advanced it does, to turn away for what is rational nonsens (like dwelling in emptiness next a refrigerator and filling it). Therefore the samples to learn that, to the Kalamas, in that regard and the sutta ends with having given possibility to develope faith. And seemingly faith in the Gems had been developed.
Quote
Here you are again. Good old Hanzze that never changes.  :teehee: I am not one of the Kalamas and will never be. So please direct your sermons to the Kalamas, not to me.

So you are One... a never be One, our both, spontaneously running away. That's the Nature of mind having found emptiness in ignorance, dwelling in maya. Of course Ground is more of the preachers approaching them occationly.


I have nothing to teach. I am expressing 'my self' here. People may read, think about, ignore or reject my expressions. Certainty does not depend on how people react to the expression of what one knows for oneself.

While never had another thought of Ground, like he expressed in the last sentence and one attentive can see his mostly noble intention, at least my person has also reason to be grateful: In regard of his idea that he had finished his work (he had that idea already 6 years ago) my person "fears" that he might gravely overestimate him self. That's why suggesting, give it simple a prove and close the door leaving the key inside.
The approach is not a matter of pulling but a matter of responsibility and estimate, gratitude and Anerkennung.

Let Atma tell him that even the first path is not secured for now for him, meaning that still able to make crave mistakes.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2017, 11:10:41 pm by Samana Johann »
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Offline ground

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Re: Adult Dhamma vs. Special Dhamma
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2017, 11:12:22 pm »

While never had another thought of Ground, like he expressed in the last sentence and one attentive can see his mostly noble intention, at least my person has also reason to be grateful: In regard of his idea that he had finished his work (he had that idea already 6 years ago) my person "fears" that he might gravely overestimate him self. That's why suggesting, give it simple a prove and close the door leaving the key inside.
The approach is not a matter of pulling but a matter of responsibility and estimate, gratitude and Anerkennung.

Let Atma tell him that even the first path is not secured for now for him, meaning that still able to make crave mistakes.
your thoughts don't apply. you are still grasping at the raft.

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Adult Dhamma vs. Special Dhamma
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2017, 11:34:00 pm »

While never had another thought of Ground, like he expressed in the last sentence and one attentive can see his mostly noble intention, at least my person has also reason to be grateful: In regard of his idea that he had finished his work (he had that idea already 6 years ago) my person "fears" that he might gravely overestimate him self. That's why suggesting, give it simple a prove and close the door leaving the key inside.
The approach is not a matter of pulling but a matter of responsibility and estimate, gratitude and Anerkennung.

Let Atma tell him that even the first path is not secured for now for him, meaning that still able to make crave mistakes.

your thoughts don't apply. you are still grasping at the raft.


"Ground/People may read, think about, ignore or reject my expressions. Certainty does not depend on how people react to the expression of what one knows for oneself."

Reverence
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Offline ground

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Re: Adult Dhamma vs. Special Dhamma
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2017, 12:14:41 am »

While never had another thought of Ground, like he expressed in the last sentence and one attentive can see his mostly noble intention, at least my person has also reason to be grateful: In regard of his idea that he had finished his work (he had that idea already 6 years ago) my person "fears" that he might gravely overestimate him self. That's why suggesting, give it simple a prove and close the door leaving the key inside.
The approach is not a matter of pulling but a matter of responsibility and estimate, gratitude and Anerkennung.

Let Atma tell him that even the first path is not secured for now for him, meaning that still able to make crave mistakes.

your thoughts don't apply. you are still grasping at the raft.


"Ground/People may read, think about, ignore or reject my expressions. Certainty does not depend on how people react to the expression of what one knows for oneself."

Reverence

Right. Only what one knows for oneself is valid knowledge. However that does not mean that the linguistic expressions of their valid knowledge of all individuals who have valid knowledge are the same. Why is this? It is because valid knowledge does not inherently exist as such.

Offline philboyd

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Re: Adult Dhamma vs. Special Dhamma
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2017, 05:07:28 am »
hot diggety dog
let me be clear
some heavy tones
vibrate'n round here
deep questions asked
and answered too
very interesting these
different points of view
if i may
some light hearted verse
hoping my critics
won't be terse
Peace

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Adult Dhamma vs. Special Dhamma
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2017, 06:14:44 am »
hot diggety dog
let me be clear
some heavy tones
vibrate'n round here
deep questions asked
and answered too
very interesting these
different points of view
if i may
some light hearted verse
hoping my critics
won't be terse

Not clear, ye, deities pleasing arose
What might it be, the actual purpose?

Rebuke accurs in different form,
But isn't doubt it's inner norm?

Well then, which part,

Better as to guess,
Caused more or less,

Ye deity this express?




« Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 06:33:53 am by Samana Johann »
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Offline philboyd

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Re: Adult Dhamma vs. Special Dhamma
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2017, 11:53:15 am »
Merely a humble presence among the learned.
Peace

 


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