Author Topic: Amida Buddha as Being-Itself  (Read 1257 times)

Offline stillpointdancer

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Re: Amida Buddha as Being-Itself
« Reply #30 on: June 02, 2017, 01:32:42 pm »
It seems that you are reducing Buddhist practice to seated, silent meditation. Please keep in mind that, traditionally, meditation is only one of the Six Paramitas. It is only by accumulating merit that one can actually attain Buddhahood, as evidenced by the many lifetimes of selfless service of the historical Buddha before he attained Buddhahood.
Only through accumulating merit through gradual practice can one actually become a Buddha: so "sudden awakening to principle but gradual practice with regard to actions" is another way to clarify sudden and gradual. This explanation shows us what sudden awakening in Chan Buddhism means.

I think I'll just stick to the enlightenment thing, thanks all the same. I gave all my merit away long ago. Maybe some came your way. Hope so.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2017, 01:37:48 pm by stillpointdancer »
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

Offline Dharma Flower

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Re: Amida Buddha as Being-Itself
« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2017, 01:49:54 pm »
It seems that you are reducing Buddhist practice to seated, silent meditation. Please keep in mind that, traditionally, meditation is only one of the Six Paramitas. It is only by accumulating merit that one can actually attain Buddhahood, as evidenced by the many lifetimes of selfless service of the historical Buddha before he attained Buddhahood.
Only through accumulating merit through gradual practice can one actually become a Buddha: so "sudden awakening to principle but gradual practice with regard to actions" is another way to clarify sudden and gradual. This explanation shows us what sudden awakening in Chan Buddhism means.

I think I'll just stick to the enlightenment thing, thanks all the same. I gave all my merit away long ago. Maybe some came your way. Hope so.

Please read the sutras and commentaries throughout history. One cannot attain Buddhahood without practicing the Six Paramitas, not even Shakyamuni did.

Offline stillpointdancer

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Re: Amida Buddha as Being-Itself
« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2017, 01:55:22 pm »
It seems that you are reducing Buddhist practice to seated, silent meditation. Please keep in mind that, traditionally, meditation is only one of the Six Paramitas. It is only by accumulating merit that one can actually attain Buddhahood, as evidenced by the many lifetimes of selfless service of the historical Buddha before he attained Buddhahood.
Only through accumulating merit through gradual practice can one actually become a Buddha: so "sudden awakening to principle but gradual practice with regard to actions" is another way to clarify sudden and gradual. This explanation shows us what sudden awakening in Chan Buddhism means.

I think I'll just stick to the enlightenment thing, thanks all the same. I gave all my merit away long ago. Maybe some came your way. Hope so.

Please read the sutras and commentaries throughout history. One cannot attain Buddhahood without practicing the Six Paramitas, not even Shakyamuni did.

I have read them, thanks. I said that enlightenment is enough for me, for now. Why on earth would I want to be a Buddha in an existing Buddhafield?
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

Offline Dharma Flower

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Re: Amida Buddha as Being-Itself
« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2017, 04:02:19 pm »
I said that enlightenment is enough for me, for now.

There is no path to enlightenment, whether it be the Eight-Fold Path or the Six Paramitas, which doesn't include cultivating compassion and loving-kindness. It just doesn't exist. If you read the sutras and commentaries, you'd know this.  :namaste:

Offline Dharma Flower

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Re: Amida Buddha as Being-Itself
« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2017, 04:02:46 pm »
A common misconception reduces Zen practice to silent, seated meditation.

Chanting sutras is Zen practice. Bowing to Buddha statues is Zen practice.

Carrying water is Zen practice. Chopping wood is Zen practice. Washing pots is Zen practice.

Anything which humbles the ego-self to let the Buddha-self shine through is Zen practice.

Offline Dharma Flower

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Re: Amida Buddha as Being-Itself
« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2017, 12:56:20 am »
If anyone claims to be an enlightened being, whether a Buddha or an Arahant, they are likely deluded or lying to you. It took Siddhartha Gautama himself many lifetimes of selfless service before attaining Buddhahood:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jataka_tales

If you were to meet an enlightened being, you would know by their conduct. They’d have no need to brag about it. Too many teachers have abused or taken advantage of their disciples while claiming an enlightened status.

As it says in the Lotus Sutra, “All Buddhas come into the world but rarely, and are hard to meet… And those who can hear this Dharma (from the mouth of a Buddha), such people too, are rare, like the udumbara flower.“

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Amida Buddha as Being-Itself
« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2017, 01:20:04 am »
Don't say so, Matthew, don't saw so. Of course it's not possible for a person of no integrity know of a person of no integrity: 'This is a person of no integrity.' or a person of no integrity know of a person of integrity: 'This is a person of integrity. So it's good to observe long, be next and involved and very attentive, while proving against what is taught by the Buddha.

And of course it's hard and very seldom to meet, think of how many not even had seen the Buddha next to him at his time.

Don't be smart before knowing well ans it's not good to tell things one does not really know.

People who hear this and that Dharma are not so rare and grow more and more naturally.

(Btw: Matthew's website looks much better now, on short look, congratulation)
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 01:22:09 am by Samana Johann »
[ sangham.net Online monastery ✦ accesstoinsight.eu ✦ old used account Hanzze ]

Offline stillpointdancer

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Re: Amida Buddha as Being-Itself
« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2017, 02:15:17 am »
I said that enlightenment is enough for me, for now.

There is no path to enlightenment, whether it be the Eight-Fold Path or the Six Paramitas, which doesn't include cultivating compassion and loving-kindness. It just doesn't exist. If you read the sutras and commentaries, you'd know this.  :namaste:
I have read the sutras and I do cultivate loving kindness. I just don't like being told what I do and don't know. I do know that enlightenment is enough for me for now. I don't want to be a Buddha, thanks.
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

Offline Dharma Flower

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Re: Amida Buddha as Being-Itself
« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2017, 03:13:02 am »
I said that enlightenment is enough for me, for now.

There is no path to enlightenment, whether it be the Eight-Fold Path or the Six Paramitas, which doesn't include cultivating compassion and loving-kindness. It just doesn't exist. If you read the sutras and commentaries, you'd know this.  :namaste:
I have read the sutras and I do cultivate loving kindness. I just don't like being told what I do and don't know. I do know that enlightenment is enough for me for now. I don't want to be a Buddha, thanks.

If you think you are enlightened, you might be deluded or self-deceiving. Since I've never met you, though, you might just be enlightened.  :socool:

Offline stillpointdancer

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Re: Amida Buddha as Being-Itself
« Reply #39 on: June 03, 2017, 12:37:01 pm »
I said that enlightenment is enough for me, for now.

There is no path to enlightenment, whether it be the Eight-Fold Path or the Six Paramitas, which doesn't include cultivating compassion and loving-kindness. It just doesn't exist. If you read the sutras and commentaries, you'd know this.  :namaste:
I have read the sutras and I do cultivate loving kindness. I just don't like being told what I do and don't know. I do know that enlightenment is enough for me for now. I don't want to be a Buddha, thanks.

If you think you are enlightened, you might be deluded or self-deceiving. Since I've never met you, though, you might just be enlightened.  :socool:
Exactly
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

Offline Dharma Flower

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Re: Amida Buddha as Being-Itself
« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2017, 02:22:22 pm »
You’re apparently getting your information about zen second-hand and only from sources that are into nembutsu.

What form of practice did Zen master Hakuin actually recommend to lay people?

Quote
Whether you sit in meditation,
recite the sutras, intone the dharani, or call the Buddha’s name, if you
devote all your efforts to what you are doing and attain to the ultimate,
you will kick down the dark cave of ignorance, destroy the evil bandits of
the five desires, smash the illumination of the Great Perfect Mirror, penetrate
to the true status of the perfect knowledge of the Four Wisdoms,
and attain to the understanding of the Great Matter. The content of the
practices may vary but what difference is there in the goal that is reached?
...

It should be known that those who think that the Mu koan and the recitation of the Buddha’s name are two
different things belong to the class of evil heretics.
How sad it is that the
Pure Land practitioners today are unaware of the basic aspiration of the
many Buddhas. They believe only that the Buddha is in the Western Land
and are unaware that the Western Land is the basis of their own minds.
tspro.ru/loadpdf/download/asin=0861713699&type=full

Why do you insist on being, according to Hakuin, an "evil heretic"?

Offline ground

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Re: Amida Buddha as Being-Itself
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2017, 08:44:29 pm »
It seems that you are reducing Buddhist practice to seated, silent meditation. Please keep in mind that, traditionally, meditation is only one of the Six Paramitas. It is only by accumulating merit that one can actually attain Buddhahood, as evidenced by the many lifetimes of selfless service of the historical Buddha before he attained Buddhahood.
Only through accumulating merit through gradual practice can one actually become a Buddha: so "sudden awakening to principle but gradual practice with regard to actions" is another way to clarify sudden and gradual. This explanation shows us what sudden awakening in Chan Buddhism means.

Please read the sutras and commentaries throughout history. One cannot attain Buddhahood without practicing the Six Paramitas, not even Shakyamuni did.

In the context of Mahayana you're certainly right. Because there are taught generosity, ethical discipline, patience, joyous perseverence, meditative stabilization and wisdom.

However there still is natural meditative stability which is pure knowing and naturally embraces all of the parmamitas from the outset but is beyond these. This is natural buddhahood that is spontaneously present.

Offline Dharma Flower

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Re: Amida Buddha as Being-Itself
« Reply #42 on: July 29, 2017, 02:11:44 am »
I really don’t know what to say about Nembutsu.


A common interpretation of Pure Land practice, outside the Zen tradition, is that the Pure Land is a magical paradise for after we die, as if it doesn't matter what we do or don't do in the present life. I do not hold to this interpretation, and neither did Hakuin:

Quote
The man who calls the Buddha’s name,
on the other hand, should he call it with complete concentration and
undiluted purity,should he neither concern himself with the filthy mundane
world nor seek the Pure Land, but proceed determinedly without
retrogression, he will, before ten days have passed, gain the benefits of
samadhi, produce the wisdom of the Buddha,and achieve the Great Matter
of salvation in the very place he stands...

How sad it is that the
Pure Land practitioners today are unaware of the basic aspiration of the
many Buddhas.They believe only that the Buddha is in the Western Land
and are unaware that the Western Land is the basis of their own minds...

Reciting the name of the Buddha constantly, he
has reached the state where the mind is undisturbed. The Great Matter
appears suddenly before him and his salvation is determined.Such a man
can be called one who has truly seen into his own nature. His own body
is the limitless body of Amida, the treasure trees of seven precious gems,
the pond of the eight virtues...

In the past the Buddha established expedients; one was
called “rebirth in the Pure Land,” another “seeing into one’s own
nature.”How can these be two different things! Zen people who have not
penetrated to this understanding look at a Pure Land practitioner and
think that he is a stupid and evil common person who knows nothing
about the Great Matter of seeing into one’s own nature...


This is known as rebirth in the Pure Land. This is known as seeing
into one’s own nature...

Never doubt that without seeing
into your own nature you cannot become a Buddha; without seeing into
your own nature there is no Pure Land...
tspro.ru/loadpdf/download/asin=0861713699&type=full


As Zen masters like Hakuin have taught throughout history, it is a delusion of the ego to see a separation or distinction between Amida and our true Buddha-self. The Pure Land, for someone who sees into their true nature, is here and now, rather than billions of galaxies away.

Books from Zen masters on Pure Land practice are widely and freely available, especially due to the Young Men's Buddhist Association:
http://www.ymba.org/free-books

I am sorry for possibly hurting or offending anyone. We should be mindful of the millions of Ch'an/Zen Buddhists throughout history who've recited the Nembutsu as a meditation device, just as the masters have taught.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 02:15:37 am by Dharma Flower »

 


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