Author Topic: Battling Pride  (Read 3931 times)

overmyhead

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Battling Pride
« on: January 01, 2010, 11:38:23 am »
Probably the biggest hindrance to my growth is pride.  It leads to contentedness of wisdom, and stagnation of spiritual development.  Today I had a thought which will hopefully help:

No matter who I am, there will always be some member of some species, or some intelligent being, who, upon seeing me, would laugh at my stupidity the way I laugh at apes.  All of my intelligence, success, power and prowess is insignificant, laughable even, in comparison to some other being.  By identifying with intelligence, success, power and prowess, I am sentencing myself to being some arbitrary degree of stupid, failure, weakness, and ineptitude, even in the unlikely case that I am the least so among my peers.

What techniques do you use to subdue pride?

Offline pickledpitbull

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Re: Battling Pride
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2010, 12:12:06 pm »
Well, the only time that my pride gets in the way is when it's hurt!  I guess this becomes anger?

I think that pride helps us keep our decorum, and helps us do good work (in our jobs for example).  It's the part of us that makes sure our hair is combed and our kids have clean clothes.

Having said all of that, I practice keeping my pride in check by trying to change my perception.  I exchange myself with other and work it that way.

But it's a work in progress, for sure.
You've been taught that there is something wrong with you and that you are imperfect, but there isn't and you're not.


~ Cheri Huber

Offline humanitas

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Re: Battling Pride
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2010, 02:51:05 pm »
Probably the biggest hindrance to my growth is pride.  

i agree with you.  and yes you especially.   :hug:

What techniques do you use to subdue pride?

marry someone you can and can't stand.  :lmfao:  or become a monk...?    :eek:

 /:) no, but all seriousness aside...  :smack: Choose a path filled with the most frustrating obstacles you can think of.  After all you are here, and that means you put yourself here through your previous aspirations and karmic conditions.  so it would be a waste to not actively pursue the path that makes you most build a life of compassion.  Maybe have children. Or maybe have students.  Compassion is the antidote to the poison pride is.  Put yourself through the (pride)ringer by practicing a life that is completely in service to others.  Your demons will emerge.  They will threaten to take you over.  The more intense the practice, the more intense the demons. Build your humility by developing a passion for exposing your self-importance and making your findings of your observations your way of life.  

At least for myself, I have followed this path.  And continue to do so.   :wacko: it does make me a little  :wacky:  ah yes, dharma the spice of life.

my only advice:  no matter what practice like this  :onfire: by smelling many flowers and pausing in moments and really seeing what's there without your story.   my :twocents:

« Last Edit: January 01, 2010, 04:05:38 pm by 0gyen Chodzom »
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TMingyur

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Re: Battling Pride
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2010, 03:04:56 pm »
What techniques do you use to subdue pride?

Confession of ill deeds (non virtuous actions) and prostrations.
Meditation on inescapable sufferings in cyclic existence.
Lower realms of existence and the suffering of those beings.
Mindfulness of death.

Kind regards

Offline justsit

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Re: Battling Pride
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2010, 04:37:36 pm »
What techniques do you use to subdue pride?

I watch this video.

overmyhead

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Re: Battling Pride
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2010, 09:28:23 pm »
Probably the biggest hindrance to my growth is pride.  

i agree with you.  and yes you especially.   :hug:


Do you really think so?  Do I seem very egotistical?  Please be honest.

Offline humanitas

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Re: Battling Pride
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2010, 10:23:36 pm »
Probably the biggest hindrance to my growth is pride.  

i agree with you.  and yes you especially.   :hug:


Do you really think so?  Do I seem very egotistical?  Please be honest.

 :haha: Honestly I wrote that with half a thought that if you were very proud you might even take what I wrote as insinuating of some negative quality about you.  But I really wrote that because if you feel that you struggle with pride, then it is a large part of what causes you suffering and maybe the block that makes you turn away from opportunities where you could just let go. On the simple point alone that you're very intelligent (and a well-read critical thinker) indicates that you might have been conditioned from an early age to be deserving and entitled (especially if you were raised in a culture that prizes the cultivation of extreme ego).  I mean we have the cults of personality of celebrities, the modern neo-pantheon of pseudo-gods of the masses... right?  Being the hero, the chosen one, the Neo of the Matrix, being special is cool, it's in, it's hip.  My own perception is that you seem very intellectual, which I recognize as a feature in myself that taps into my self-importance (ego) and generates pride.  Even though I can spin intellectual circles around some of my peers, I'm often too proud to tell my partner I'm suffering when all it would take is for me to say, "Honey, I'm suffering, I need you to xyz."  Whereas those very people I might feel superior to intellectually are far more skilled with handling their emotions and practically applying what is needed in terms of comfort for their loved ones.   My petty legalistic self-important intellect and need to be right can get in the way of my deeper wisdom which instead remembers all the loving-kindness I have as a mother as well as a student of the dharma.  I simply see that you struggle with your pride sometimes, that's all.  Remember it's my perception, so it's just as likely I'm just seeing me and not you at all...
 
:onfire:
Ogyen
« Last Edit: January 03, 2010, 02:12:36 pm by 0gyen Chodzom »
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overmyhead

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Re: Battling Pride
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2010, 11:48:12 pm »
Thanks for your input.  I just came off of a several day ego trip, which happens every once in a while.  I'm paranoid right now.

TMingyur

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Re: Battling Pride
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2010, 12:07:21 am »
And of course the major antidot is meditation on dependent arising and empiness of the self (the "I" and the "mine").

However before that one should have a knowledge about the disadvantages of the afflictions in general of which pride is one type. Others are attachment, hostility, ignorance, doubt and wrong views.

Kind regards

Offline santamonicacj

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Re: Battling Pride
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2010, 03:51:05 pm »
A piece of wisdom from the I-Ching says that if you struggle with a negativity then you are giving it energy and strengthening it. Better to make efforts towards the good. In the Tibetan traditions prostrations are a big part of that function.

I don't have a relevant quote from Buddhadharma, but I'll bet there's one out there somewhere. :chscrtch:
« Last Edit: January 02, 2010, 03:52:45 pm by santamonicacj »
Warning: I'm enough of a fundamentalist Tibet style Buddhist to believe that for the last 1,000 years Tibet has produced a handful of enlightened masters in every generation. I do not ask that YOU believe it, but it will greatly simplify conversations if you understand that about me. Thanks.

Offline Optimus Prime

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Re: Battling Pride
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2010, 05:04:41 pm »
Probably the biggest hindrance to my growth is pride.

No matter who I am, there will always be some member of some species, or some intelligent being, who, upon seeing me, would laugh at my stupidity the way I laugh at apes.  All of my intelligence, success, power and prowess is insignificant, laughable even, in comparison to some other being.  By identifying with intelligence, success, power and prowess, I am sentencing myself to being some arbitrary degree of stupid, failure, weakness, and ineptitude, even in the unlikely case that I am the least so among my peers.

What techniques do you use to subdue pride?

The fact that you are even recognizing the pride is a good sign  :namaste:.  With intelligent people, usually the pride comes from this intelligent, "You guys can't even see this?  It's blatantly obvious!  You guys are pathetic!" - things like that.  Yet, one can reflect - especially when suffering comes, "All this intelligence.  I can philosophize all I want, I can come up with all these great sounding theories and people praise me for it, yet still, I am wallowing in this suffering and misery!"  The same sort of reflection can be used for rich people or beautiful people or people who are in anyway "superior".

I've found bowing helps as it reduce arrogance - taking the highest part of you and intentionally lowering it to the lowest part of the the Buddha - his feet.  Just the physical act of doing it is an act of surrender - surrendering the self that is the source of pride.   :worthy:

An interesting story of pride comes from Professor Martin Verhoeven who used to be Bhikshu Heng Chau.  This is the gist of it.  One time, he was battling with pride (as throughout his life, he always wanted to be No.1), so he went the other direction - he became humble.  One day, his teacher, Master Hsuan Hua saw what he'd been doing and decided to check him out to see how humble he really was.  So Master Hua took Heng Chau's hat, threw it on the ground and started stamping on it.  Heng Chau was speechless!  "Hey Shifu, that's MY hat!"  After that, Master Hsuan Hua said to him something like, "The humility that you are cultivating is not real humility.  You are cultivating humility for the sake of showing off to the world and saying, 'Hey, look at me, I am No.1 in humility - no one is more humble than me!' - that's not it either".  So the Master probably dusted off his hat, gave it back to him, smiled and said, "Keep practicing ;)"

So here, we're trying to understand how pride works.  In this story, we can see the 2 extremes - the duality of extreme pride and extreme humility.  Both based on the self view (sakkya-ditthi).  Thinking that, "I am No.1 in humility, no one is more humble than me" is still a form of pride, isn't it?

The Buddha said that there is actually a threefold conceit - I am superior is a conceit, I am inferior is a conceit, I am equal to is a conceit (A 6.49) and that if one who has fully penetrated through these has put an end to suffering.  So here, I am superior, I am inferior and I am equal to is still self view and is comparing yourself to others.  The "I am" is the conceit, the self view.

“Those samanas and brahmins who, relying on the
impermanent, unsatisfying and transitory nature of material form,
feelings, perceptions, mental formations and consciousness,
conceive that: ‘I am better,’ or ‘I am equal,’ or ‘I am worse’ – all
these imagine thus through not understanding reality.”
~ S 22.49


What sort of reflections can help see through this self view?

“Whatever form... feeling... perception... mental
formations ... consciousness there are: past, future or present;
internal or external; gross or subtle; inferior or superior; far or
near – all should be seen as they really are through true wisdom
thus: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’”
~ MV 1.6, S 22.59, Anattalakkha¼a Sutta
« Last Edit: January 02, 2010, 05:09:32 pm by Optimus Prime »

Offline santamonicacj

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Re: Battling Pride
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2010, 05:11:51 pm »
I've found bowing helps as it reduce arrogance - taking the highest part of you and intentionally lowering it to the lowest part of the the Buddha - his feet.  Just the physical act of doing it is an act of surrender - surrendering the self that is the source of pride.   :worthy:

An interesting story of pride comes from Professor Martin Verhoeven who used to be Bhikshu Heng Chau.  This is the gist of it.  One time, he was battling with pride (as throughout his life, he always wanted to be No.1), so he went the other direction - he became humble.  One day, his teacher, Master Hsuan Hua saw what he'd been doing and decided to check him out to see how humble he really was.  So Master Hua took Heng Chau's hat, threw it on the ground and started stamping on it.  Heng Chau was speechless!  "Hey Shifu, that's MY hat!"  After that, Master Hsuan Hua said to him something like, "The humility that you are cultivating is not real humility.  You are cultivating humility for the sake of showing off to the world and saying, 'Hey, look at me, I am No.1 in humility - no one is more humble than me!' - that's not it either".  So the Master probably dusted off his hat, gave it back to him, smiled and said, "Keep practicing ;)"

So here, we're trying to understand how pride works.  In this story, we can see the 2 extremes - the duality of extreme pride and extreme humility.  Both based on the self view (sakkya-ditthi).  Thinking that, "I am No.1 in humility, no one is more humble than me" is still a form of pride, isn't it?

The Buddha said that there is actually a threefold conceit - I am superior is a conceit, I am inferior is a conceit, I am equal to is a conceit (A 6.49) and that if one who has fully penetrated through these has put an end to suffering.  So here, I am superior, I am inferior and I am equal to is still self view and is comparing yourself to others.  The "I am" is the conceit, the self view.
Nice. :bow:
Warning: I'm enough of a fundamentalist Tibet style Buddhist to believe that for the last 1,000 years Tibet has produced a handful of enlightened masters in every generation. I do not ask that YOU believe it, but it will greatly simplify conversations if you understand that about me. Thanks.

Offline Optimus Prime

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Re: Battling Pride
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2010, 01:23:56 am »
Glad that it was of help ;D.  Yeah, Master Hsuan Hua is awesome.  :jinsyx:

Offline lee pearson

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Re: Battling Pride
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2010, 03:53:24 am »
pride is delusion!opponent to pride is humility:)

Offline Karma Sonam

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Re: Battling Pride
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2010, 05:20:12 am »
I've found bowing helps as it reduce arrogance - taking the highest part of you and intentionally lowering it to the lowest part of the the Buddha - his feet.  Just the physical act of doing it is an act of surrender - surrendering the self that is the source of pride.   :worthy:

An interesting story of pride comes from Professor Martin Verhoeven who used to be Bhikshu Heng Chau.  This is the gist of it.  One time, he was battling with pride (as throughout his life, he always wanted to be No.1), so he went the other direction - he became humble.  One day, his teacher, Master Hsuan Hua saw what he'd been doing and decided to check him out to see how humble he really was.  So Master Hua took Heng Chau's hat, threw it on the ground and started stamping on it.  Heng Chau was speechless!  "Hey Shifu, that's MY hat!"  After that, Master Hsuan Hua said to him something like, "The humility that you are cultivating is not real humility.  You are cultivating humility for the sake of showing off to the world and saying, 'Hey, look at me, I am No.1 in humility - no one is more humble than me!' - that's not it either".  So the Master probably dusted off his hat, gave it back to him, smiled and said, "Keep practicing ;)"

So here, we're trying to understand how pride works.  In this story, we can see the 2 extremes - the duality of extreme pride and extreme humility.  Both based on the self view (sakkya-ditthi).  Thinking that, "I am No.1 in humility, no one is more humble than me" is still a form of pride, isn't it?

The Buddha said that there is actually a threefold conceit - I am superior is a conceit, I am inferior is a conceit, I am equal to is a conceit (A 6.49) and that if one who has fully penetrated through these has put an end to suffering.  So here, I am superior, I am inferior and I am equal to is still self view and is comparing yourself to others.  The "I am" is the conceit, the self view.
Nice. :bow:

Thank you.  What a wonderful quote :namaste:
Om Tare Tutare Ture Soha

Don't forget to stop and smell the daisies.

and then the monkey pushed the button

 


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