Author Topic: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness  (Read 318 times)

Offline Patipada

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Hi,

I'm reading a lot about Buddhism :buddha2: and now I like to go more deeply into Anatta and Interconnectedness.
Are there books who go deeply into this subjects?
Anyone suggestions?

Thanks!

Metta :namaste:
Gerjan

Offline The Artis Magistra

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Re: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2017, 01:06:01 pm »
There are two types of books on such, modern takes, and academic research on the ideas which may take a look at trying to contextualize the ancient interpretations of such.

I'd reccomend the latter. You can also look up those notions within a term and subject called Abhidhamma which deals with philosophical and cosmological ideas.

It can be helpful also not to over-complicate the ideas but to keep them primituve and simple seeming. Most generations of Buddhists seemed to understand these two ideas together as meaning individuality is just a sort of illusion and since there is no real separation all that we do and even think is impacting and connecting to the whole of the experienced, that it is not separate independent things, but all one that is divided only by impression and notions but otherwise touching and wholly intertwined.

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2017, 02:05:04 pm »
Interconnectedness can be used to intellectually demonstrate anatta (not-self) however not all anatta is interconnectedness.

For example, dogs are animals but not all animals are dogs.

Similarly, Nirvana is anatta but Nirvana is not interconnectedness.

Further, phenomena such as rocks, trees, aggregates, elements, etc, are anatta regardless of any interconnectedness.

For example, what 'self' exists in a rock or tree or breath or eye-ball or finger-nail?  :shrug:

I think only Mahayana literature will attempt to discuss Anatta and Interconnectedness.

In Pali Buddhism, this superficial intellectual often moral philosophy is not relevant.

 :namaste:

Offline The Artis Magistra

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Re: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2017, 03:34:34 pm »
Interconnectedness can be used to intellectually demonstrate anatta (not-self) however not all anatta is interconnectedness.

For example, dogs are animals but not all animals are dogs.

Similarly, Nirvana is anatta but Nirvana is not interconnectedness.

Further, phenomena such as rocks, trees, aggregates, elements, etc, are anatta regardless of any interconnectedness.

For example, what 'self' exists in a rock or tree or breath or eye-ball or finger-nail?  :shrug:

I think only Mahayana literature will attempt to discuss Anatta and Interconnectedness.

In Pali Buddhism, this superficial intellectual often moral philosophy is not relevant.

 :namaste:

Yeah, its a Mahayana interest. Not to be bothered with by the disinterested or those seeking to be disinterested.

Life is very simple when you are disinterested. Simply do whatever, receive whatever, don't think about it much or care about it, live without much thought given and die without much thought given. When someone tempts you with talk, deal with the talk, neither averse nor interested in pursuing it or learning anything as there is no real "gain" or "loss", nothing to worry about, just arbitrary bubbles and pops.

That is one sort of Buddhism and Buddhist philosophy and practice. A nice preparation for being "very dead" and "forever dead".

Mahayana Buddhism couldn't tolerate Zombie Brain Dead Buddhism, so they invented something that sounded better to them, because Blandist, Boreist, Deadist Buddhism just felt icky to these world-bound, attached, life-grasping, ignoramuses.

So to each their own I suppose. To a Deadist, if they are doing Deadism correctly or going all out with it, short of suicide, they shouldn't care what anyone thinks or does, what we say or approach you with, if others are to be saved or rightly guided or not, none of that should be of any interest or any value at all. The Deadist should just sit around doing as little as possible, then die and if by some strange accident they aren't properly dead, then repeat the Deadist Way until you properly stay Dead forever and no longer bother with the living or alive.

Living, according to Deadists, is for the Ignorant, and only the Wise wish to be utterly dead. Dead to feelings, Dead to concerns, Dead to curiosity, Dead to any sense of value or interest in anything, just as dead as possible until one is forever gone and dead. Hooray! For a truly dead person, there is no good or bad, no suffering or loss, no future or past, nothing at all, no experience, no existence, no interference. This is what the Deadist thinks Buddhism is about, and maybe they are right.

The ignorant Mahayana Buddhists and their off-shoots had a variety of idea, some which might lean towards Deadism even, others which lean more towards utterly ignorant "ongoing involvement" and "active living" hoping for "serene existence" opposed to "True Death" or "Non-Existence".

So a true Deadist doesn't care if Mahayana Buddhists exist or not, defecate on the Suttas or not, spit in the Buddha's face or not. It should mean nothing to a disinterested Deadist. Deadists should ideally be very passive and peaceful. For example, Deadists should be very much like a properly dead thing, you can kick it, cut it, yell at it, and it doesn't even hear it apparently or react at all, its just a dead lump laying there.

That is how you should be too, if you seek to be a Deadist. A Deadist role-model is any corpse, not caring about its looks, its decay, its family, its friends, it can't even, so it doesn't, it has no desires, completely extinguished of any interest or desires, dead and gone.

How wonderful.

Meanwhile, the living continue to struggle with pain and suffering and being heroic and saving little buggies and crying and laughing and all that fuss, much ado about nothing. Deadists know what is best though, which is apparently not to know or be able to know anything at all, being truly dead forever.

So whoever seeks life, should live and see if they can continue to live, and live better, and live best.

It should be of no interest to a Deadist if there continue to be Living People or not, a Deadist should not care, especially if they are properly Dead, they would have no interest in if there are other dead, they being the only dead, etc. Deadism is truly a wonderful peace and a tool. We can all practice it sometimes maybe.

As for the living, there is all sorts of excitement and action, and it is perpetual, there is no rest for the Wakeful and Vigilant.

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2017, 04:40:33 pm »
Patipada and those interested:

As basement for doing, so to understand really anatta and releations:

Selves & Not-self: The Buddhist Teaching on Anatta

And if "language"-barrieres in addition for that (for doubting philosophers not willing to do)

The Concept of Emptiness in Pali Literature
This Study on Sunnata (Skt. Sunyata) is mainly based on the Pali text. However, is is known that suyata came into prominence only with the rise of Madhyamaka philosophy of Acarya Nagarjuna. Therfore, no study of Sunnata is complete, without any reference to Sunyata as presented in Madhyamaka philosophy...

The first goes into the deep and the way for understanding it and the secound is merely "entertainment" or to find a base of faith to go on.

(Oh, and the Dhamma is not meant to be sold and no means for livelihood and trade. That's the Jains-way to understand use anatta and the Buddha called them simply thieves, yet at his time they took "just" their own belongings after their "anatta- meetings" back. That's importand for one self and all others around, since very harmful and destructive.)
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 05:12:56 pm by Samana Johann »
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Offline The Artis Magistra

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Re: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2017, 08:07:31 pm »
What were the jains doing exactly? I would like to hear more on this whole controversy and scandal. I agree the Dharma should never be sold or be restricted by issues of profit or gains ever.

Offline ground

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Re: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2017, 09:44:02 pm »
Hi,

I'm reading a lot about Buddhism :buddha2: and now I like to go more deeply into Anatta and Interconnectedness.
Are there books who go deeply into this subjects?
Anyone suggestions?

Thanks!

Metta :namaste:
Gerjan

I'd recommend:

Tsong-kha-pa's Final Exposition of Wisdom by Jeffrey Hopkins.

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2017, 11:02:13 pm »
You can have that for just 24 bucks from the liberated beyoung hunger and so, on that base of this merits you make, you will become one of them... having a new word "Noble Sea Squirt" and later teach anatta next to your refrigerator by you self as well.

That was sarcastic, for sure they have some noble and wise inspiration as well or train inthat direction.

Beware with whom you trade and for what.

What were the jains doing exactly? I would like to hear more on this whole controversy and scandal. I agree the Dharma should never be sold or be restricted by issues of profit or gains ever.


My person made a topic for that. Maybe we try together to stick more to the topic. Dhamma should be more than that be received with devotion respect and gratitude, if liking any benefit from it. So it's nothing one has such as a right on it or could be demand. The right inbetween is importand for success beyound some short without any real gain. There are no dealers if there are notthose who seekfor them.
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Offline Patipada

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Re: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2017, 12:42:58 am »
Wow, thank you all for the replies :hug:
Good suggestions and also already helpful points of view on these topics.
I'll keep your sarcastic statement in mind @Samana  :D

 :jinsyx:

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2017, 01:01:25 am »
Patipada, it's either funny nor with any ill-will but causes have effects and law of nature is not just a game so even games cause results in pleasure or pain, well-being or suffering. It's good to keep things on their good places.

At least the "poor" Netherlands are already famous enough for having no limits and moral shame. Especially as a young, it's good to give also good alternatives to tendencies in "drunkeness".
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 01:05:09 am by Samana Johann »
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Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2017, 01:04:59 pm »

I like to go more deeply into Anatta and Interconnectedness. Are there books who go deeply into this subjects?

Have you read Thich Nhat Hanh, who teaches about "Non-self is Interbeing"? If not, just google.

Regards  :namaste:

Offline The Artis Magistra

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Re: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2017, 02:53:46 pm »

I like to go more deeply into Anatta and Interconnectedness. Are there books who go deeply into this subjects?

Have you read Thich Nhat Hanh, who teaches about "Non-self is Interbeing"? If not, just google.

Regards  :namaste:

Various things called Buddhism encompasses many ideas regarding Re-Birth, but these days there are people who seem shy towards the idea in the face of Colonial Orientalist Ridicule, and thus deny such an idea or try to tap dance in response to it.

To make it easier, you either buy the idea of experience and continued experience and different experiences or realities, or you simply believe in this life and when you die there is nothing more.

If you prefer the former, there is a great deal of traditional literature regarding such, and if you prefer the latter, there are many re-constructionists and cowards to support them writing books currently or available on this website to talk to.

The former will say that when you die you may experience again, the latter will say that when you die you will not experience anything ever again.

Please see my other notes to determine which sort of Buddhism you gravitate towards.

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2017, 04:43:02 pm »

I like to go more deeply into Anatta and Interconnectedness. Are there books who go deeply into this subjects?

Have you read Thich Nhat Hanh, who teaches about "Non-self is Interbeing"? If not, just google.

Regards  :namaste:

Various things called Buddhism...


Please stop spamming the forum with off-topic comments. It is harming the forum. Thanks in advance.  :pray:

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2017, 04:43:56 pm »

I like to go more deeply into Anatta and Interconnectedness. Are there books who go deeply into this subjects?

Have you read Thich Nhat Hanh, who teaches about "Non-self is Interbeing"? If not, just google.

https://bodhileaf.wordpress.com/2009/05/25/understanding-interbeing/

Regards  :namaste:

Offline The Artis Magistra

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Re: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2017, 06:34:25 pm »

I like to go more deeply into Anatta and Interconnectedness. Are there books who go deeply into this subjects?

Have you read Thich Nhat Hanh, who teaches about "Non-self is Interbeing"? If not, just google.

Regards  :namaste:

Various things called Buddhism...


Please stop spamming the forum with off-topic comments. It is harming the forum. Thanks in advance.  :pray:

It isn't off-topic to me, but may be of relevance to the original poster and their question as well as others. It is not "spam" or supposed to be "spam" but normal discussion on a public forum regarding contemporary issues, such as your book reccomendation being more Atheistic and denying Rebirth in many minds.

 


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