Author Topic: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness  (Read 285 times)

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2017, 06:47:53 pm »
such as your book reccomendation being more Atheistic and denying Rebirth in many minds.

The Dhamma is defined as being "visible here-&-now". "Re-birth" is mental rather than physical.

Since you do not listen to Buddha, listen to Jesus:  :listen:

Stop being a heretic that accuses others of heresy.  :namaste:

Quote
3 Jesus answered, “I am telling you the truth: no one can see the Kingdom of God without being born again.”

4 “How can a grown man be born again?” Nicodemus asked. “He certainly cannot enter his mother's womb and be born a second time!”  :lmfao:

5 “I am telling you the truth,” replied Jesus, “that no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit. 6 A person is born physically of human parents, but is born spiritually of the Spirit. 7 Do not be surprised because I tell you that you must all be born again.[ 8 The wind blows wherever it wishes; you hear the sound it makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going. It is like that with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

9 “How can this be?” asked Nicodemus.  :lmfao:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+3

Offline The Artis Magistra

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Re: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2017, 07:21:36 pm »
Why should I "stop being a heretic"? You die, and I die supposedly, forever. So why "stop being a heretic"? Why are you such a suppressor?

I'm not interested in Jesus, or any of these figures that people imagine and adore. They are imaginary, because they are not "here and now". What is "here and now" is "information", "stuff", which we can use in all sorts of ways. Now how does your bland and boring use of information, benefit you or anyone at all? Your philosophy gives no reason for people to "stop being a heretic" or do anything nice at all, you die, we all die, forever, so whats the goal? Just coming online trying to suppress people? That is your big goal? Then you'll die? According to your philosophy, I have no reason to be concerned about even pooping on an imaginary Jesus or Buddha's face. They aren't here, they are "dead and gone forever", and so will everyone else, so why should I be good to people or animals or do anything much except follow my lusts? What is your logic?

Whats going to happen to me? In the Buddhism you reject, bad things would happen to me if I were to do such. In your Buddhism, nothing will happen to me if I simply get away with it, and furthermore, the same will happen to me as you, so you can live your whole life being a jerk and you and I will get the same in the end.

Don't you ever think about your own foolish proposal? Who cares if the "Buddha really said it", maybe he was just as worthless and foolish as you and your ideas? So you'll be just as dead as him, what does it matter how you lived? Your life will be nothing, you will have no access to it, so who cares?

Make sense of it to me please.

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2017, 10:15:33 pm »
Whats going to happen to me? In the Buddhism you reject, bad things would happen to me if I were to do such. In your Buddhism, nothing will happen to me if I simply get away with it, and furthermore, the same will happen to me as you, so you can live your whole life being a jerk and you and I will get the same in the end.

Make sense of it to me please.

On this forum you are a jerk but get away with it. On other forums, you are a jerk and get banned. But you can't make it sense of it.  :teehee:

Offline The Artis Magistra

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Re: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2017, 11:39:28 pm »
Whats going to happen to me? In the Buddhism you reject, bad things would happen to me if I were to do such. In your Buddhism, nothing will happen to me if I simply get away with it, and furthermore, the same will happen to me as you, so you can live your whole life being a jerk and you and I will get the same in the end.

Make sense of it to me please.

On this forum you are a jerk but get away with it. On other forums, you are a jerk and get banned. But you can't make it sense of it.  :teehee:

I am not trying to be a jerk, so if you think I am such then it might be a natural thing, not deliberate. I do sincerely want to understand you and people like you though. Why are you even bothering with some Asian and Indian stuff that you need to apologize for and explain away as parables? It has nothing to even do with you. You are an Australian Atheist, why do you bother with Indian things and try to call it all parables? What business is it of yours or anyone like you to go out of your way and try to colonize random Indian stuff? Why do you need some Indian dude to say what you want them to say in an Australian Atheist accent? Its like me going to the moon and taking the moon peoples stuff and saying the moon people were Australian Atheists just like me. Its craziness.

Why can't you stand on your own two Australian Atheist feet and stop apologizing for or explaining Ancient Indian stuff which has nothing to do with you at all? Then you won't have to go around saying sorry sorry its just a parable the Indian man told. Why not drop the random Indian and simply stand on your two Atheist feet and stop tagging the Indian along and forcing them to be Australian?

When I am asking you these questions, I do really want to know. Do you feel like some Ancient Indian dude backing you up somehow legitemizes the ideas more or gives them more authority? It doesn't. According to your philosophy, nobody is special and everyone gets the same ending, one life for a little while and one death forever. So you don't need to say "look atvthis Indian guy from Ancient India who was saying stuff just like me in an Australian accent"! Who cares?

Its not what was considered Buddhism by the majority of generations of people considered Buddhists. Why even bother with trying to hijack all that stuff? Just be an enlightened Australian Atheist. Why apologize and make excuses for things which can never possibly make any sense with your philosophy. There is no reason not to slaughter animals, shave your head, wear robes, follow any precepts or restrictions at all. We all end up dead the same and there is nothing more, so why bother with Indian and Asian tom-foolery?

Nothing you do makes much sense. Just get another girlfriend or avoid girls and leave it at that. You don't need some dead guy from India telling you do dis do dat.

Offline Spiny Norman

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Re: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2017, 01:16:13 am »
"Re-birth" is mental rather than physical.


Not according to the way birth, aging and death are described in the suttas.

"Now what is aging and death? Whatever aging, decrepitude, brokenness, graying, wrinkling, decline of life-force, weakening of the faculties of the various beings in this or that group of beings, that is called aging. Whatever deceasing, passing away, breaking up, disappearance, dying, death, completion of time, break up of the aggregates, casting off of the body, interruption in the life faculty of the various beings in this or that group of beings, that is called death.

"And what is birth? Whatever birth, taking birth, descent, coming-to-be, coming-forth, appearance of aggregates, & acquisition of [sense] media of the various beings in this or that group of beings, that is called birth."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.002.than.html

And here is a short sutta on rebirth, from which it is clear that rebirth is not merely a mental process:

"At Savatthi. There the Blessed One said: "From an inconstruable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. A being who has not been your mother at one time in the past is not easy to find... A being who has not been your father... your brother... your sister... your son... your daughter at one time in the past is not easy to find.

"Why is that? From an inconstruable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. Long have you thus experienced stress, experienced pain, experienced loss, swelling the cemeteries — enough to become disenchanted with all fabricated things, enough to become dispassionate, enough to be released."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn15/sn15.014.than.html

« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 01:35:22 am by Spiny Norman »

Offline The Artis Magistra

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Re: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2017, 01:19:12 am »
Oh, so it wasn't just mental! Why is VisuddhiRaptor trying to confuse me so much?

Offline Spiny Norman

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Re: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2017, 01:19:42 am »
On this forum you are a jerk but get away with it. On other forums, you are a jerk and get banned. But you can't make it sense of it.  :teehee:

Again this is pure projection on your part, the pot calling the kettle black.  You are so intent on attacking others that you cannot see your own shortcomings.

You arrogantly pretend to be a teacher, and insult anyone who challenges your delusional pronouncements.  You preach a personal dogma and dismiss all other forms of Buddhism as inferior. 

Offline Spiny Norman

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Re: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2017, 01:29:07 am »
Oh, so it wasn't just mental! Why is VisuddhiRaptor trying to confuse me so much?

Element is just an egomaniac.  Ignore him.

Offline The Artis Magistra

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Re: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2017, 01:36:52 am »
On this forum you are a jerk but get away with it. On other forums, you are a jerk and get banned. But you can't make it sense of it.  :teehee:

Again this is pure projection on your part, the pot calling the kettle black.  You are so intent on attacking others that you cannot see your own shortcomings.

You arrogantly pretend to be a teacher, and insult anyone who challenges your delusional pronouncements.  You preach a personal dogma and dismiss all other forms of Buddhism as inferior.

Yeah, I genuinely want to understand this figure. The stuff I write may sound a little provocative, but its just to bring up the extreme ends of the ideas, I don't mean to be hurtful really, just to show how the ideas themselves are ultimately or potentially hurtful if taken seriously or for what they seem to mean or represent (the ones VisuddhiRaptor is seen proposing).

Its good we are allowed to talk to here (though some of my really nice writing, much nicer and to other people has been very cruelly deleted! I put lots of care in my writing like I did to one newcomer, I really didn't like it to be destroyed, it was very mean to me to do that), I'm even somewhat ok with discussing all these new ideas being brought to Buddhism or being proposed as Buddhist, but what I'm not so Okay with is people just disparaging or re-inventing all of history, all of the generations of ideas, and colonizing Buddhist history, for no apparent sense or purpose even, since they are essentially a Nihilist, there is no reason or goal at all to do any of that, its not like Buddhists are some big world threat right now that one has to urgently go back and wipe away and change all the ideas called Buddhist from the past.

The Buddhism I know is of a more religious and mystical nature, its very spiritual, its very magical and Indian and full of cool stuff that I am interested in. I don't like this ultra sterile boring Buddhism that doesn't believe in anything and just wants to suck the life and color out of everything.

I believe in miracles, I believe in those stories, I've witnessed amazing things and experienced them myself, and Buddhism, the Buddhism of the generations of the past was not incompatible with all this wacky stuff, it was actually affirming it and confirming it and giving a framework for it even.

Then VisuddhiRaptor came along and these prune-like monster monks who are maybe trying to appease the Westerners for cash and power and promotion or maybe they really are just faithless disbelievers themselves who have never experienced the mystical and miraculous, but whatever they are, this new group of, basically "creeps", seem to be going on a rampage online and everywhere to try to convince people that Buddhism is strictly Western Atheistic Materialist Philosophy Science, and that it always was, and generation after generation of writers and believers were "just kidding" and "just telling tales". Actually that really irritates me. I don't think they were all disbelieving liars. These things are not even illogical. What is illogical is going online without a purpose or a cause just to strip Buddhism of all mystic elements or color or light. If ever there were an agent of Mara, these seem to be it. They have no sense behind them, no internal logic that makes any sense.

That is why I bring up these issues and ask these questions, I want to try to get what the heck is driving these people and what their point is.

I'm getting my butt kicked though, the power on these websites seems always misplaced mostly and I get in trouble for trying to ultimately defend Buddhist history and cast a light on not only ill behavior, but something apparently trying to poison everything and twist it into something very new and ultimately also very bad, A-Moral Nihilism.

Offline Patipada

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Re: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2017, 04:51:52 am »

Have you read Thich Nhat Hanh, who teaches about "Non-self is Interbeing"? If not, just google.

Regards  :namaste:

Thank you VisuddhiRaptor. I think it's interesting!   :pray:

Offline Patipada

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Re: Book suggestions for looking deeply to Anatta and Interconnectedness
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2017, 04:56:01 am »
@VisuddhiRaptor
Do you have a specific book suggestion for "Non-self is Interbeing"?

 


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