Author Topic: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana  (Read 19111 times)

Offline Spiny Norman

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Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #60 on: June 02, 2010, 01:52:30 am »
The Universe is niether interested nor not-interested. Perception of an indifferent universe is just as much an affectation as perception of a caring one.   Choose your projection.     

Well said.

Spiny

Offline heart

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Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #61 on: June 02, 2010, 02:14:04 am »
Mahayana simply added material that is considered a clarification and revelation of the Buddhas full intention.

It's known as re-inventing the wheel :teehee:

You can put it anyway you like my point was that the common ground between Mahayana and Theravada was as big as the Theravada teaching itself. It is Buddha own teaching that is the ground of all Buddhism. There is no tradition that subtract and reject the Buddhas teaching (apart from modern day Westerners that is).

/magnus

Offline Kojip

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Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #62 on: June 02, 2010, 08:03:43 am »
Or, you could look at the society which arrested the perpetrator, tried him, put him in jail, fed him, and rehabilitated him.  The same society that provided social services for the child he raped and returned her to the family from which she was taken by the perpetrator, who loved her and cared for her, and spent the necessary time with her allowing her physical and mental pains to heal.

It is our choice to look for and cling to good or evil, just as much as it is our choice to do good, or to do evil.  Kamma and its effects belong to each one of us, who are The Universe become aware of Buddha's teachings.
Or you could look at the society that worshipped someone even more depraved and followed him into mass violence that killed millions. We can go around....  The point is that the rock dislodged from a cliff by erosion that tumbles down onto your head is neither indifferent or not-indifferent, neither caring or uncaring. It just is.   This whole notion of the universe as One Being awakening to itself  through a morality play towards inevitable consummation in re-union and eternal bliss.....   is the Theosophy I believed in before coming to Buddhism, but I do not hold that view now.  It is a really good one though.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2010, 08:07:37 am by Kojip »

Offline Kojip

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Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #63 on: June 02, 2010, 08:06:26 am »
The Universe is niether interested nor not-interested. Perception of an indifferent universe is just as much an affectation as perception of a caring one.   Choose your projection.     

Well said.

Spiny
Thanks Spiny. Its a touchy subject to touch, without touching.          ....or something.

Offline Ron-the-Elder

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Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #64 on: June 02, 2010, 08:46:44 am »
OK.  Now I am going to state the obvious.  Rocks are not sentient, and certainly not sapient.  Therefore they haven't a care one way or/nor the other.

Guys like Mao, Stalin, Po Pot, Gengis Khan, Adolph Hitler (now the thread is going to end due to some debating rule, which name I cannot remember) do bad stuff. They do really bad stuff.  But even they had their moments of compassion.  They had children, they had loved ones, they had mothers and fathers who they cared about.  However the one's that Carl Sagan was talking about were the scientists like Capernicus, Galileo, Keppler, Einstein, and etc..  Even the butchers of humanity would occasionally look up at the sky and be amazed and feel wonder.

In any event, you can pick a bad guy for every good guy that I point out as you say, but even you must admit that they were all sapient:  Aware of their own existence, and therefore aware of the existence of The Universe.......or not.   :fu:


Or, you could look at the society which arrested the perpetrator, tried him, put him in jail, fed him, and rehabilitated him.  The same society that provided social services for the child he raped and returned her to the family from which she was taken by the perpetrator, who loved her and cared for her, and spent the necessary time with her allowing her physical and mental pains to heal.

It is our choice to look for and cling to good or evil, just as much as it is our choice to do good, or to do evil.  Kamma and its effects belong to each one of us, who are The Universe become aware of Buddha's teachings.
Or you could look at the society that worshipped someone even more depraved and followed him into mass violence that killed millions. We can go around....  The point is that the rock dislodged from a cliff by erosion that tumbles down onto your head is neither indifferent or not-indifferent, neither caring or uncaring. It just is.   This whole notion of the universe as One Being awakening to itself  through a morality play towards inevitable consummation in re-union and eternal bliss.....   is the Theosophy I believed in before coming to Buddhism, but I do not hold that view now.  It is a really good one though.
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But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

Offline Kojip

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Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #65 on: June 02, 2010, 01:24:01 pm »
 ;D  Godwin's law.  That's why I didn't say the "H" word.


We are sapient for sure (even my brother Dave sometimes).  Rocks are not.  Lovingkindness is a sapient quality not a rock quality.
 We could say that our capacity for loving kindness is inherent in rocks as well if you like. Thats a nice thought.

Offline catmoon

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Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #66 on: October 16, 2010, 03:43:18 am »
;D  Godwin's law.  That's why I didn't say the "H" word.


We are sapient for sure (even my brother Dave sometimes).  Rocks are not.  Lovingkindness is a sapient quality not a rock quality.
 We could say that our capacity for loving kindness is inherent in rocks as well if you like. Thats a nice thought.

Wow, this thread is a living demonstration of Godwin's law in action. The H word appeared and the thread has now been dead four months!
Sergeant Schultz was onto something.

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Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #67 on: October 16, 2010, 08:19:18 am »
All (most?) Theravada texts are the common ground between Mahayana and Theravada Buddhist.

To be clear, they are't "Theraveda texts".  To assert that is to say that the texts you speak of originated in/with the Theraveda, which they did not.

It is certainly used by Theraveda but the Pali Canon is not theirs any more that it is Mahayana's.

Offline swampflower

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Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #68 on: October 16, 2010, 12:15:41 pm »
OK.  Now I am going to state the obvious.  Rocks are not sentient, and certainly not sapient.  Therefore they haven't a care one way or/nor the other.

Oh well, still off topic I am, however "Rocks are not sentient" ...maybe not that obvious. 
A Rock  after all is merely the lump of existence called "rock".  We and our consciousness...and rock... spring/arise from the same open empty nature of existence.  We may simply not be aware or choose not to be aware of the awareness of the luminous nature within all existence.
Well maybe this is a difference in view between Theravadan and Mahayanan after all.
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Offline LastLegend

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Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2011, 11:36:42 am »
Really we should not be concerned about the distinction between the two. In other words, don't attach attachments to create conflicts between the two when Buddhism is about eliminating attachments and conflicts to arrive at peace.  All roads lead to the same goal which is to be truly detached or enlightened.
Beware of philosophies for the sake of knowledge without actual practice for these philosophies only increase the attachment of 'I.'-Te Cong

What is the definition/essence of meditation of all forms?-Te Cong

Thien la gi? Thien la roi phan biet chap truoc.- Lao Phap Su

You have the recipe. Now make the cake instead of thinking about cake.- La Tao Viec

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Offline Disney Land

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Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #70 on: February 27, 2011, 10:11:46 pm »
Quote
- We accept the Four Noble Truths taught by the Buddha, namely, Dukkha, the fact that our existence in this world is in predicament, is impermanent, imperfect, unsatisfactory, full of conflict; Samudaya, the fact that this state of affairs is due to our egoistic selfishness based on the false idea of self; Nirodha, the fact that there is definitely the possibility of deliverance, liberation, freedom from this predicament by the total eradication of the egoistic selfishness; and Magga, the fact that this liberation can be achieved through the Middle Path which is eight-fold, leading to the perfection of ethical conduct (sila), mental discipline (samadhi) and wisdom (panna).

The only slight different in Theravada and Mahayana is that the Four Noble Truths in Theravada is recognizing the wisdom of self-liberation while Mahayana is the recognition of the perfect wisdom of four noble truths in both self & others. Normally, even in Mahayana practice, one has to liberate themselves before liberating others. However, there are exceptional cases where liberating others and self go in the same path   :namaste:
n Elder Master once said:
Those who skillfully discourse on Mind and Self-Nature surely can never reject Cause and Effect; those who believe deeply in Cause and Effect naturally understand the Mind and Self-Nature in depth. This is a natural development.
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Offline LastLegend

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Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #71 on: February 28, 2011, 12:43:47 am »
Quote
- We accept the Four Noble Truths taught by the Buddha, namely, Dukkha, the fact that our existence in this world is in predicament, is impermanent, imperfect, unsatisfactory, full of conflict; Samudaya, the fact that this state of affairs is due to our egoistic selfishness based on the false idea of self; Nirodha, the fact that there is definitely the possibility of deliverance, liberation, freedom from this predicament by the total eradication of the egoistic selfishness; and Magga, the fact that this liberation can be achieved through the Middle Path which is eight-fold, leading to the perfection of ethical conduct (sila), mental discipline (samadhi) and wisdom (panna).

The only slight different in Theravada and Mahayana is that the Four Noble Truths in Theravada is recognizing the wisdom of self-liberation while Mahayana is the recognition of the perfect wisdom of four noble truths in both self & others. Normally, even in Mahayana practice, one has to liberate themselves before liberating others. However, there are exceptional cases where liberating others and self go in the same path   :namaste:

You spoke well.

According to Dependent Originiation, one thought of ‘self’ has lead us to become selfish. Mahayana speaks of compassion (no self) as the way out, the opposite of ‘self.’ Theravada practices detaching from self to become truly free. The only difference is the emphasis to help others to become Buddhas also.
Beware of philosophies for the sake of knowledge without actual practice for these philosophies only increase the attachment of 'I.'-Te Cong

What is the definition/essence of meditation of all forms?-Te Cong

Thien la gi? Thien la roi phan biet chap truoc.- Lao Phap Su

You have the recipe. Now make the cake instead of thinking about cake.- La Tao Viec

Thuong Tru Tang Nhu Lai= Knowing the presence of Buddha.

Offline Caz

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Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #72 on: March 04, 2011, 01:09:19 am »
Quote
- We accept the Four Noble Truths taught by the Buddha, namely, Dukkha, the fact that our existence in this world is in predicament, is impermanent, imperfect, unsatisfactory, full of conflict; Samudaya, the fact that this state of affairs is due to our egoistic selfishness based on the false idea of self; Nirodha, the fact that there is definitely the possibility of deliverance, liberation, freedom from this predicament by the total eradication of the egoistic selfishness; and Magga, the fact that this liberation can be achieved through the Middle Path which is eight-fold, leading to the perfection of ethical conduct (sila), mental discipline (samadhi) and wisdom (panna).

The only slight different in Theravada and Mahayana is that the Four Noble Truths in Theravada is recognizing the wisdom of self-liberation while Mahayana is the recognition of the perfect wisdom of four noble truths in both self & others. Normally, even in Mahayana practice, one has to liberate themselves before liberating others. However, there are exceptional cases where liberating others and self go in the same path   :namaste:

You spoke well.

According to Dependent Originiation, one thought of ‘self’ has lead us to become selfish. Mahayana speaks of compassion (no self) as the way out, the opposite of ‘self.’ Theravada practices detaching from self to become truly free. The only difference is the emphasis to help others to become Buddhas also.


Nicely put LL  :namaste:
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Offline Disney Land

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Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #73 on: March 29, 2011, 11:56:16 pm »
Both is the same on liberation from samsara to emptiness. It is the aptitude of the beings rather than schools itself. For instance, a class of students in the secular context has different aptitudes and achievement at any point in time  :namaste:
n Elder Master once said:
Those who skillfully discourse on Mind and Self-Nature surely can never reject Cause and Effect; those who believe deeply in Cause and Effect naturally understand the Mind and Self-Nature in depth. This is a natural development.
If it were not for a period of penetrating cold, the plum blossom could never develop its exquisite perfume!

Offline nirmal

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Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #74 on: March 30, 2011, 09:32:28 am »
Common ground in meditation

Breathing with sunyata corresponds to breathing in Theravada.

The 'victorious bodhicitta' corresponds to 'the merciful mind'

The 'unattainability of mind in the three times' corresponds to 'mind is impermanent'

The 'eight negatives' correspond to 'discrimination of elements'

The 'three wheels of sunyata' correspond to 'all dharmas without self'

The 'six similes of the Diamond Sutra' correspond to "dependent origination', 'all feelings are painful' and 'the body is impure'

The 'four unborns' corresponds to 'all dharmas without self'

The 'eight negatives' corresponds to 'discrimination of elements'


 


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