Author Topic: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana  (Read 18769 times)

Offline Mahasiddha Bodhisattva

  • Member
  • Posts: 79
    • View Profile
Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #90 on: June 21, 2012, 03:32:42 pm »
Properly understood, all differences are resolved in ultimate understanding. Ultimate understanding is achieved by questioning, syncretism, esotericism, and direct realization. Universal Buddhism is the Buddhism of the post-mappo, post-singulatarian future. Its prototype is Dzogchen.

Offline Spiny Norman

  • Member
  • Posts: 5081
  • Cool baby yeah!
    • View Profile
Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #91 on: June 22, 2012, 07:03:00 am »
I think it's an internet thing in general. People express themselves without skilfully relating to the others and without thinking out the power of their words.

I think you're right about that, but I also think that the tensions which get highlighted in these forums do also exist in the real world. 
I've found that at one-off events people tend to be on their best behaviour, but when you get to know them they say what they really think. :wink1:

Offline Spiny Norman

  • Member
  • Posts: 5081
  • Cool baby yeah!
    • View Profile
Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #92 on: June 22, 2012, 07:04:39 am »
Its prototype is Dzogchen.

So if Dzogchen is just the prototype, what will the finished article look like?  :wink1:

GoGet

  • Guest
Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #93 on: June 22, 2012, 09:33:51 am »
Its prototype is Dzogchen.

So if Dzogchen is just the prototype, what will the finished article look like?  :wink1:

Norm - you REALLY don't want to go there.  Think of the old maps that said "Beyond this point there be dragons".

If you're interested in Dzogchen, learn it from a qualified Dzogchen teacher such as a bonafied lineage holder.  There are plenty of them out there and you don't need to go this route.

GoGet

  • Guest
Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #94 on: June 22, 2012, 10:59:54 am »
I think it's an internet thing in general. People express themselves without skilfully relating to the others and without thinking out the power of their words.

I think you're right about that, but I also think that the tensions which get highlighted in these forums do also exist in the real world. 
I've found that at one-off events people tend to be on their best behaviour, but when you get to know them they say what they really think. :wink1:

I think that the net provides a level of anonimity that seems to empower bad behavior in people.

In a net forum you aren't as likely to suffer the social consequenses of bad behavior.  Letting go with some off-hand remark on FreeSangha will never result in getting a punched in the face or a swift kick to the 'nads or any other of the many tools has society has to "keep the peace".  In the Real World, if one of those self-styled WebTheravedins attended a party where some Tibetan Buddhist types were discussing the "Hinayana" class they're taking and offered the all-too common objection to the term, our Theravedin friend might quickly find himself drinking alone for the rest of the night.  You don't have to be beaten to a bloody pulp to be shown the door so to speak.

There are something simply not worth hassling over in the Real World because of the social ramifications.  It's a lot more fun hanging out with people than it is to watch them hanging out without you.  Most of us aren't so anti-social that we're willing to risk being socially outcast as a result of voicing an unpopular opinion.  You are entitled to your opinion but that doesn't mean I have to hang out with you.

Take discussion about eating meat as an example.  The kind of discussions you see online are completely different from the Real World.  I can't speak for everyone, but in my experience, discussions about that subject last only minutes if not seconds.  I attended a Konchok Chidu tsok practice one evening.  This practice involves eating both read meat and liquor.  An attendee decided it was time to bring up his vegetarian leanings, condemning the prescribed use of meat in the practice based on statements by the Karmapa.  That conversation lasted about 5 seconds and we still went on to have a wonderful practice anyway.  Our vegetarian Sangha Brother hasn't attended Konchok Chidu since then and that's fine - if our guru instructs us to perform the practice in the traditional way - with read meat - then that's what we do and if our friend objects to that then he should excuse himself from the practice.  And that's ok.  The convo need not drag on, pointlessly, for days.  On the 'Net, this subject has been hammerded to death, over and over again, for frikkin YEARS!

The 'Net doesn't have the behavioral constraints that we have out in the Real World.  It's a social medium that is still in it's infancy.  It still has some growing up to do.

Offline Mahasiddha Bodhisattva

  • Member
  • Posts: 79
    • View Profile
Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #95 on: June 22, 2012, 03:18:39 pm »
Its prototype is Dzogchen.

So if Dzogchen is just the prototype, what will the finished article look like?  :wink1:

According to my view, it will look like whatever the Dharma Transmission to the West becomes, in the context of singulatarian technocracy.


Offline Spiny Norman

  • Member
  • Posts: 5081
  • Cool baby yeah!
    • View Profile
Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #96 on: June 23, 2012, 01:55:02 am »
If you're interested in Dzogchen, learn it from a qualified Dzogchen teacher such as a bonafied lineage holder. 

Been there, done that. :)

Offline Spiny Norman

  • Member
  • Posts: 5081
  • Cool baby yeah!
    • View Profile
Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #97 on: June 23, 2012, 01:57:51 am »
In the Real World, if one of those self-styled WebTheravedins attended a party where some Tibetan Buddhist types were discussing the "Hinayana" class they're taking and offered the all-too common objection to the term, our Theravedin friend might quickly find himself drinking alone for the rest of the night. 

But that makes it sound like the real world is just as mean-spirited as the net. 

GoGet

  • Guest
Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #98 on: June 23, 2012, 06:06:29 am »
In the Real World, if one of those self-styled WebTheravedins attended a party where some Tibetan Buddhist types were discussing the "Hinayana" class they're taking and offered the all-too common objection to the term, our Theravedin friend might quickly find himself drinking alone for the rest of the night. 

But that makes it sound like the real world is just as mean-spirited as the net.

Nah, it's just social dynamics at work. 

In my little scenario the subject in question truly isn't worth being given the time of day.  If someone is being boorish about it, why should I hang around?  I could tell the offending bore to f*** off, but that would be impolite.  Better to excuse myself and go find a convo that doesn't include a boorish twit.

It works the other way, too.  If a Tibetan Buddhist were to enter into a convo with Theravedins it would be best to leave delicate subject matter out in the car so to speak.

In the Real World we generally abide by the unwritten rules of social intercourse we have learned over many years of getting our faces slapped, asses kicked and drinking alone.  Oftentimes we we do this without thinking.  Not so on the net.

Offline Richard

  • Member
  • Posts: 93
    • View Profile
    • touching the breath of wisdom
Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #99 on: January 11, 2013, 11:17:54 am »
I think, and I speak on a very gross level here because I am unaware of many of the subtleties within various Mahayana schools, but I look at the differences in two ways.

Firstly on the philosophical level we can talk about the Bodhisattva ideal and how it may or may not be the 'ultimate' understanding of the Buddha's teaching. I find such debates a detriment to practice from both sides of the coin and those that wish to engage in them may do so freely without my own involvement.

Secondly however, from the experiential level it seems to me that criticism of the Theravada by the Mahayanist philosophers is somewhat skewed.

Strictly from my own experience the major criticism of the Theravada is that it does not contain universal compassion nor does it point to 'direct' experience.

I think if such critics (and they are thankfully, not to be found universally within Mahayana) took time to actually read the Pali Canon they would find example after example of both the above criticisms.

In short I see very little difference in those of both schools who truly grasp the teachings, or the teachings themselves. Those who find such difficulties I think may be stuck too much in the philosophical.

I invite those with wider knowledge to clarify.

 :namaste:
Buddham saranam gacchāmi . Dharmam saranam gacchāmi . Sangham saranam gacchāmi

Offline anando

  • Member
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #100 on: May 09, 2013, 04:21:58 am »
Hi,
there is  a certain amount of knowledge that both sides share. The difference is that Mahayana has a here and a beyond,
with Brahma and gods in differnt realms,even the devil and 7  mighty magic powers.
The common ground works until nirvana.

sakko

Offline Hanzze

  • Member
  • Posts: 2083
  • (Johann)
    • View Profile
Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #101 on: May 13, 2013, 07:00:15 am »
If the OP was actually meant as common ground and not common ground between, I guess there is one:

Suffering and the way to put it to an end.

Offline ground

  • Member
  • Posts: 2029
    • View Profile
Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #102 on: May 13, 2013, 09:09:22 pm »
Both are religions and their followers are eager to believe this or that.  :fu:

Offline Hanzze

  • Member
  • Posts: 2083
  • (Johann)
    • View Profile
Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #103 on: May 13, 2013, 09:38:23 pm »
Some even believe that there is neither suffering nor a way out  :wink1:

Offline ground

  • Member
  • Posts: 2029
    • View Profile
Re: Finding Common Ground Between the Theravada and Mahayana
« Reply #104 on: May 15, 2013, 11:32:03 am »
Some even believe that there is neither suffering nor a way out  :wink1:
If there is no seeing then belief arises, yes.  :fu:

 


SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal