Author Topic: Gate gate paragate  (Read 288 times)

Offline ZenFred

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Gate gate paragate
« on: December 25, 2019, 08:37:21 am »
Hello,
It's been a while since I posted here. Since my leaving I drifted and have been studying Western mysticism. I currently have a gnostic practice (1st-4th century estoeric Christanity).
However there are many moments that bring me back to my days studying zen.

Here is a passage from the gospel of thomas
"17. Jesus said, "I will give you what no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, what no hand has touched, what has not arisen in the human heart."

I have felt drawn to experiencing "God" as something that is hidden and beyond our daily, distracted existance and beyond what is being sold as religion on Sundays.

This reminded me alot of the Zen mantra at the end of the heart sutra.

Any thoughts?

Online Chaz

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Re: Gate gate paragate
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2019, 10:48:32 am »
Hello,
It's been a while since I posted here. Since my leaving I drifted and have been studying Western mysticism. I currently have a gnostic practice (1st-4th century estoeric Christanity).
However there are many moments that bring me back to my days studying zen.

Here is a passage from the gospel of thomas
"17. Jesus said, "I will give you what no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, what no hand has touched, what has not arisen in the human heart."

I have felt drawn to experiencing "God" as something that is hidden and beyond our daily, distracted existance and beyond what is being sold as religion on Sundays.

This reminded me alot of the Zen mantra at the end of the heart sutra.

Any thoughts?

Yes

First, The Heart Sutra and the Parajnaparamita mantra are not about things that are "hidden".

Then, the word "gate", meaning beyond, speaks to me of transcendance.

Offline ZenFred

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Re: Gate gate paragate
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2019, 10:55:16 am »
That's definitely true, the heart sutra doesn't talk about truth as hidden.

Here is another saying from the gospel of Thomas

"5. Jesus said, "Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you.

For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. And there is nothing buried that will not be raised."


Hiddenness or secrecy is something that is easily misunderstood. It's an aspect of esoteric/occult study that is very challenging. It's definitely a hidden right in front of us, something hidden mostly by our distraction to the world.

Zen and the gnostics don't say the same thing but there are interesting simmilarities and at least I believe are different expressions of the same encounter with transcendence.





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Online Chaz

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Re: Gate gate paragate
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2019, 07:55:11 pm »

Zen and the gnostics don't say the same thing

That is for certain.


Quote
but there are interesting simmilarities

That may be, but all you seem to be offering is details drawn from the Thomas gospel and then simply stating that Zen is similar, without really offing any examples.

And, this isn't a forum for the discussion of Christian/Gnostic Mysticism or comparative religion in general.  There are other forums that serve those discussions.


All religions speak of transcendence - to go beyond the mundane and awaken.  If you haven't, you should be reading Joseph Campbell.




« Last Edit: December 25, 2019, 07:59:28 pm by Chaz »

Offline Mrs Malaprop

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Re: Gate gate paragate
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2020, 12:37:43 am »
That's definitely true, the heart sutra doesn't talk about truth as hidden.

Here is another saying from the gospel of Thomas

"5. Jesus said, "Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you.

For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. And there is nothing buried that will not be raised."


Hiddenness or secrecy is something that is easily misunderstood. It's an aspect of esoteric/occult study that is very challenging. It's definitely a hidden right in front of us, something hidden mostly by our distraction to the world.

Zen and the gnostics don't say the same thing but there are interesting simmilarities and at least I believe are different expressions of the same encounter with transcendence.





Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

There seem to be different assumptions here. Assuming there is something "beneath" the aggregates (Gnosticism) assuming there isn't (Heart Sutra).

 


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