Great horror, great doubt, right mindfulness

[ground]

I guess getting in contact with Zen as a Dharma-pubescent is like if a 14 years old young man finds a playboy magazine.

Yes I totally agree.
However it may be very beneficial to get in contact with it as an Dharma-adult. But actually one may get in contact with "it" beneficially without getting in contact with "zen" independent of Dharma-age especially if one is not obsessed  with Dharma-children's fantasies.

Sorry for my waving reflections, what was the actual state of affairs *smile* Mr. TMingyur. And sorry for my impoliteness, I was not aware of who was first.

Sorry, I don't understand. Who was impolite and because of what?

[Hanzze]

Very good Sir, very good. Yes, I agree.
Thanks you for your patient.
*smile*

[ground]

Throw away Zen, throw away Theravada, throw away Tibetan Buddhism, throw away every kind of buddhism, throw away everything   

[ground]

The tathagata is the Great Doubter, being the Great Doubter he is homeless:

'Having abandoned home,
living free from society,
   the sage
in villages
creates no intimacies.
Rid of sensual passions, free
from yearning,
he wouldn't engage with people
in quarrelsome debate.'
...

"And how does one not live at home? Any desire, passion, delight, craving, any attachments, clingings, fixations of awareness, biases, or obsessions with regard to the property of {the aggregates}: these the Tathagata has abandoned, their root destroyed, made like a palmyra stump, deprived of the conditions of development, not destined for future arising. Therefore the Tathagata is said to be not dwelling at home.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.003.than.html

[Hanzze]

Throw away Zen, throw away Theravada, throw away Tibetan Buddhism, throw away every kind of buddhism, throw away everything   

Yes Sir. I was lucky. When you never take anything that is not needed, you do not need to throw it away. One never falls into patronization and one does not fall in the natural aversion which comes along naturally.
Before we are able to give, we have to learn to receive.

There are so many things, even we are next to them, that we are not able to make it our own. Some are untouchable, some collapse if we take it in our hand. Some make us heavy, some pull us away.

The thing is, that even things are given, we mostly don't like to take the whole. We take things if it the contingent of what we desire is higher then the reject. We reject things if the contingent of what we dislike is higher as the grasped amount.

We take with our eyes, our nose, our mouth, our ears, our body, our intellect and oversee that only the heart is able to receive and to give. *smile* Things are always on there right place. Neither taken nor given, neither received nor released.

Letting go of what was taken will lead us to be free. Look! Can't you see? Never cut parts of presents away. *smile*

[ground]

Throw away Zen, throw away Theravada, throw away Tibetan Buddhism, throw away every kind of buddhism, throw away everything   

Yes Sir. I was lucky. When you never take anything that is not needed, you do not need to throw it away.

Beware of delusion. The aggregates have been taken. And these have to be thrown away through establishing Great Doubt. That's all I have said above

[Hanzze]

Yes Sir, thank you Sir. I thought I had written that. *smile* "Letting go of what was taken will lead us to be free." Right before asking: "Look! Can't you see? Never cut parts of presents away."

[Spiny le Norman]

Throw away Zen, throw away Theravada, throw away Tibetan Buddhism, throw away every kind of buddhism, throw away everything   

Even all these thoughts of throwing away?

Spiny

[ground]

Throw away Zen, throw away Theravada, throw away Tibetan Buddhism, throw away every kind of buddhism, throw away everything   

Even all these thoughts of throwing away?

Spiny

Yes because as soon as you rely on thought you're trapped.
Don't grasp any of my words I don't either ...

[Hanzze]

Dear Sir, I still wonder how such a post arises. Maybe there are useful things to grasp for, if we are on the way to gain a view-less view. *smile*

[ground]

Maybe there are useful things to grasp for, if we are on the way to gain a view-less view. *smile*

You grasp whatever you like. Your likings have nothin to do with my words.

[Hanzze]

Yes Sir, maybe it not so about the words, maybe it is that I don't get the thoughts that you had before you tried to express. *smile* Like, dislike, grasp, reject, things are not easy to take or just let go of them.

[ground]

Yes Sir, maybe it not so about the words, maybe it is that I don't get the thoughts that you had before you tried to express. *smile* Like, dislike, grasp, reject, things are not easy to take or just let go of them.

There's been nothing that "had" thought but there's been just thinking. Actually there is nothing to let got of it is just thinking's trusting itself that makes it appear as if there were. If there is Great Doubt thinking is not grasped by itself. There is just arising and ceasing and knowing (that is other than thinking).

[ground]

Horror intends to escape from the horrible.
Thus horror gives birth to mindfulness.
Mindfully not getting involved in the horrible
Is doubting the horrible upon arising.
Doubting the horrible horror ceases.
Great doubt is right mindfulness
Is abandonment, is renunciation.

 


After attending a few uposathas - some time after the last one - great horror occurred. It's been just an instant. It's been a vision showing that all teachings and practices are contrived from ignorance and don't lead to anywhere but are just perpetuation of samsara, are just spending this time between birth and death in futility.
Actually it's been a vision that there is no escape at all, and that all teachers and teaching are telling lies (not intentionally!). I mean I often before had these fabricated ignorant thoughts of "just words", "words are empty", ignorant babbling, just thoughts ... but never before did I experience the futility of each type of practicing and teaching with every filament of the body and having a vision. Immediately after this there was a moment of all having been dropped,  a perfectly peaceful moment of renouncing everything. This showed me to not rely on teachings and teachers but just rely on the Buddha and nothing and nobody else. Because actually only the Buddha cancelled his own teachings. Therefore He is the only reliable. All other teachers behave like fools, they may be kind fools with good intent but still they are fools because they constantly try to affirm their own fantasies. The Buddha however really tidied up ...

So relying on the Buddha is relying on nothing. Relying on nothing there cannot be any error.
Please note that "nothing" here really means "nothing" and does not mean  rejecting this and affirming that. When sectarians read this they usually start arguing using arguments like "nihilism" since they want to reject "nothing" and affirm their fantasies. They cannot stand there being nothing. They want to "fill nothing with something", "something" being their views. I am not advocating  nihilism here because nihilism is exactly a sort of rejecting this and affirming that which is other than "nothing". At least "nihilism" is a view and a view is more than "nothing". "Nothing" cannot be rejected, neither by nihilistic fantasies nor by non-nihilistic fantasies.


Hopefully I now could make clear the intended meaning of Great Doubt which is not to be confused with ordinary doubt that is based on thinking and considered to be a hindrance by the Buddha.


 

[Hanzze]