Author Topic: Is a Teacher Really Necessary?  (Read 17529 times)

Offline humanitas

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Re: Is a Teacher Really Necessary?
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2010, 11:13:01 am »
I have a friend, a very dear teacher friend.  He is not a dharma teacher.  He was my college advisor for my thesis.  A published writer of 35 years, and when I wrote my thesis, I could have gone at it alone, but it was nowhere near as good as when he accepted the role of being my editor and made my thesis really to the point.

He told me, a good teacher doesn't give you the answers.  A good teacher poses the right question to his student.  A good teacher is one that asks the seed question that starts the students journey of discovery by stimulating the innate curiosity that exists in everyone.  (very dharmic in a way)

He was a great teacher, I was his last student before he retired.  My thesis was dedicated to him, because he asked me the right questions that got me thinking.  What makes a good teacher?  This question is a quarter of my thesis right there.  

I spent almost 2 years with exploring the "The Ignorant Schoolmaster" (a real life case of a French teacher who goes to Belgium with a class of students who only spoke Flemish.  With the use of a book with both translations french and flemish, the class learned to speak French fluently, and he learned to speak Flemish)   The story was so groundbreaking that it toppled the whole concept of what makes a teacher.   It's emerged that the institution of education has failed in that it has simply become an institution of explication, and not one that encourages real critical and innovative thinking.  

Yeshe, I agree we can have different ideas of what makes a good teacher, but ultimately, a teacher is one who plants the right kind of seed questions that arouse the student's natural curiosity that leads them in turn to discover the knowledge of the answer for themselves.   I think we could all agree on that.  Without that, there is no teacher and there is no student.

:headbow:
« Last Edit: September 18, 2010, 11:15:33 am by humanitas »
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Offline nirmal

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Re: Is a Teacher Really Necessary?
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2010, 11:14:39 am »
Om Mani Padme Hom

Then again, if we have a good teacher but we are lazy and inconsistent, its back to square one again.


Om Mani Padme Hom

Offline humanitas

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Re: Is a Teacher Really Necessary?
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2010, 11:16:20 am »
The teacher cannot make you learn.  Only ask the questions that make you search.  If you are lazy, the teacher can do no more.  :)
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GoGet

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Re: Is a Teacher Really Necessary?
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2010, 11:23:37 am »
Can we follow the Path through self-study, without the formal support of a qualified Dharma teacher?

Yes.  In a way it's a more courageous approach to take.

Spiny  

I'm sorry Norm, but I have agree with Greg on this.

Unless there is absolutely no other option, going it alone, without a teacher's guidance and blessing, is, in a word, foolish.  It shows more hubris than courage.

Even the greatest mahasiddhas and yogins knew that much.  The great Yogi, Milarepa had more capacity for practicice and enlightenment than any just about anyone since the Buddha, but even so, he went to extreme lengths and traveled many miles to find Marpa (at first Mila only had Marpa's name and didn't know where to find him) and then, haviung found him at last, :om: spent years courting Marpa's favor.  After that he spent many additional years studying with Marpa, becoming Marpa's heart son and Dharma heir before going it alone.  Even then he remained faithful to his samaya and his guru's instruction and achieved supreme enlightenment in a single lifetime.  Would Mila have attained enlightenment without Marpa?  Probably.  In that lifetime?  Never.

Pratyekabuddhas are few and far between.  To think we measure up as one who can achieve liberation on his or her own merit and capacity and embark on such a path is foolhardy at best.  

If it can be said that such a solitary path is the more courageous one, it can also be argued that it is the more cowardly in rebuttal.  To study with Marpa, Milarepa had to endure much hardship and humiliation.  Considering the story of Milarepa, it took greater couage to to seek out and then endure Marpa's method of instruction and to abandon ego to prostrate (figuratively) before his guru.  Only then and only in that way did Mila's remarkable capacity and complete, genuine devotion come to fruition in supreme realization.  Through that devotion he was able to teach Gampopa who in turn taught Düsum Khyenpa - Knower of the Three Times and the first Karmapa, founding a lineage of practice that extends to this very day.

Can we see ourselves as Mila's equal and still attain what he did while ignoring his example and refusing the blessing of his (or any other teacher's) lineage, especially when it is so readliy available? I can only conclude no.  

It cannot possibly be courageous.  It can only be foolish.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2010, 11:29:32 am by GoGet »

Offline Ngawang Drolma

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Re: Is a Teacher Really Necessary?
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2010, 01:04:06 pm »
I am following Spiny's lead in posting a simple, but I think important, question.  Some of us have been reading and studying on our own for years now without the benefit of face-to-face meetings with a teacher.  Some people are house bound, or live in remote areas.  Are the internet, books, podcasts and the like enough?   Spiny recently asked if the Internet was a virtual teacher.  I am not asking if the Net can substitute for a personal, real-world, association with a realized teacher (it cannot), but whether or not a teacher of any sort is required.

Can we follow the Path through self-study, without the formal support of a qualified Dharma teacher?

Hi Heybai  :)

I believe the answer to this question lies in the tradition one chooses to follow.

Kindly,
Laura

Offline humanitas

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Re: Is a Teacher Really Necessary?
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2010, 01:58:32 pm »
I'm not sure, but IS there a tradition that does NOT put emphasis on a guide for the dharma or that advocates going at it solo?

If not, then I'd think after a few millennia, there might be a reason why...?

The answer would not necessarily lie in the tradition if you don't have a tradition.  But the answer would lie with whichever guide you chose?

Dunno, not tryin' to split hairs, just seems like a distinction that's important to know about.  First question (above) being the most important.   Is there a tradition that does not advocate or advise a teacher?   

I am following Spiny's lead in posting a simple, but I think important, question.  Some of us have been reading and studying on our own for years now without the benefit of face-to-face meetings with a teacher.  Some people are house bound, or live in remote areas.  Are the internet, books, podcasts and the like enough?   Spiny recently asked if the Internet was a virtual teacher.  I am not asking if the Net can substitute for a personal, real-world, association with a realized teacher (it cannot), but whether or not a teacher of any sort is required.

Can we follow the Path through self-study, without the formal support of a qualified Dharma teacher?

Hi Heybai  :)

I believe the answer to this question lies in the tradition one chooses to follow.

Kindly,
Laura
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Offline heybai

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Re: Is a Teacher Really Necessary?
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2010, 08:44:01 pm »
I haven't found my teacher yet, but I did find "How to Find a Teacher"   :D on Dhamma Wiki, just posted in another thread by Ngawang Drolma.  Have a look & listen:

How to find a teacher by Mae Chee Maria
http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=How_to_find_a_teacher_by_Mae_Chee_Maria

She believes kamma plays a key role. 

Offline heybai

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Re: Is a Teacher Really Necessary?
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2010, 08:49:24 pm »
Also from Dhamma Wiki:

"Teacher and Disciple"
http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=Teacher_and_disciple


A teacher (garu, Sanskrit guru) is a person who imparts skills or knowledge and a disciple (sàvaka) is one who learns from a teacher.

In some religions, and even within the Vajrayana branch of Buddhism, the disciple is expected to dedicate him or her self totally to the teacher and obey him unquestioningly. This is very much at odds with what the Buddha both taught to and required from his disciples. He advised that before learning under a teacher, and even while receiving instruction, the disciple should maintain a respectful but questioning and discriminating attitude. First, the disciple should investigate (vãmaüseyya) the teacher by watching and listening to see if his or her behaviour is consistent with what they teach. Continuing to investigate over a period of time, the disciple should try to see if the good qualities the teacher appears to have are internalized or only the result of making an effort or trying to impress.

Other things that might indicate a teacher’s true worth are seeing if they act differently in public than in private and whether they are affected by fame and success (M.I,318-20). The Buddha approved of respect and reverence by a disciple towards a teacher. He said; ‘A teacher should look upon his student as a son. A student should look upon his teacher as a father. United by this mutual reverence and deference and living in communion with each other, both will achieve increase, growth and progress in this Dhamma and discipline’ (Vin.IV,45). However, the truly sincere teacher wants the disciple to attain the same level of virtue and knowledge as him or her self or even to surpass it, and this can only be done in an environment where questioning and free expression are encouraged.

Offline gregkavarnos

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Re: Is a Teacher Really Necessary?
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2010, 11:40:23 pm »
Here is a Vajrayana practice used to find ones guru.
Quote
Calling Guru From Afar

by 1st Jamgon Kongtrul
 
LAMA KHYEN NO
Lama, thinks of us.
DRIN CHEN TSA WIE LA MA KHYEN NO
Kind root lama thinks of us.
DU SUM SANG GYE KYI NGO WO
Essence of the Buddhas of the three times,
LUNG TOK DAM CHO KYI JUNG NE
Source of genuine Dharma in scripture and realization,
PHAK TSOK GEN DUN GYI NGA DAK
Master of the noble gathering of sangka,
TSA WEI LAMA KHYEN NE
Root lama, may you think of us.
JIN LAB THUK JE YI TER CHEN
Great treasure of blessing and compassion,
NGO DRUB NAM NYI KYI JUNG NE
Source of the two siddhis,
TRIN LE CHI DO KUN TSOL DZE
Buddha activity that grants whatever is desired,
TSA WEI LA MA KHYE KHYEN NO
Root lama, may you think of us.
LA MA O PAK ME PA KHYEN NO
Lama Amitabha, thinks of us.
TRO DRAL CHO KU LONG NE ZIK SHIK
Behold us from the expanse of the dharmakaya, free of fabrication,
DAK SOK LE NGEN KHOR WAR KHYAM NAM
We wander in samsara through the force of negative karma;
DE CHEN DAK PAY ZHING DU DRONG DZO
Bring us to rebirth in your pure land of bliss.
LA MA CHEN RE ZIK WANG KHYEN NO
Lama Chenrezik, thinks of us.
O SAL LONG KUE LONG NE ZIK SHIK
See us from the expanse of the luminous sambhogakaya.
RIK DRUK DUK NGAL TSE NE ZHI ZHING
Pacify completely the suffering of the six kinds of beings
KHAM SUM KHOR WA DONG NE TRUK DZO
And totally transform the three realms of samsara.
LA MA PE MA JUNG NE KHYEN NO
Lama Padmasambhava, thinks of us.
NGA YAB PE MA O NE ZIK SHIK
Behold us from the luminous lotus of Nga Yab Ling.
NYIK DU KYAB ME BO BANG NYAM THAK
In these dark times, swiftly protect with your compassion
THUK JE NYUR WA NYI DU KYOB DZO
We, disciples, who are destitute and without refuge.
LA MA YE SHE TSO GYEL KHYEN NO
Lama Yeshe Tsogyel, thinks of us.
KHA CHO DE CHEN TRONG NE ZIK SHIK
Behold us from the dakinis' city of great bliss.
DIK DEN DAK SOK SI PAY TSO LE
Bring us, who have committed negative actions,
THAR PAY DRONG KHYER CHEN POR DROL DZO
Cross the ocean of samsara, to the great city of liberation.
KA TER GYU PAY LA MA KHYEN NO
Lama of the oral transmission and terma lineages, thinks of us.
ZUNG JUK YE SHE LONG NE ZIK SHIK
Behold us from the expanse of primordial wisdom, the union of appearance and emptiness
DAK GYU TRUL PAY MUN KHANG TOL NE
Break through the dark prison of our confused mind
TOK PAY NYI MA SHAR WAR DZO CHIK
And make the sun of realization rise.
KUN KHYEN DRI ME O ZER KHYEN NO
Omniscient Drime Ozer, thinks of us.
LHUN RUB O NGEI LONG NE ZIK SHIK
Behold us from the expanse of the five spontaneous lights.
KA DAK GONG PAY TSAL CHEN DZOK NE
Help us to perfect the great display of mind, primordially pure,
NANG SHI THA RU CHIN PAR DZO CHIK
And complete the four stages of Ati yoga.
NYAM ME JO WO YAB SE KHYEN NO
Incomparable Atisha and your heart sons,
GA DEN LHA GYE U NE ZIK SHIK
Amidst hundreds of deities, behold us from Tushita.
TONG NYI NYING JEY NYING PO CHEN GYI
Bring about the birth in our mind stream
JANG SEM GYU LA KYE WAR DZO CHIK
The bodhicitta, the essence of emptiness and compassion.
DRUB CHOK MAR MI DAK SUM KHYEN NO
Supreme siddhas, Marpa, Milarepa, and Gampopa, think of us.
DE CHEN DOR JE YING NE ZIK SHIK
Behold us from the space of great vajra bliss.
DE TONG CHAK CHEN CHOK NGO DRUB CHING
Enable us to attain the supreme siddhi of Mahamudra - bliss and emptiness inseparable;
CHO KU NYING U SE PAR DZO CHIK
Awaken the dharmakaya in our heart of hearts.
JIK TEN WANG CHUK KAR MA PA KHYEN NO
Lord of the world, Karmapa, thinks of us.
KHA KHYAB DRO DUL YING NE ZIK SHIK
Behold us from the space where all beings, in numbers as vast as the sky, are trained.
CHO KUN DEN ME GYU MAR TOK NE
Bring us to see that all phenomena are like an illusion, without any true existence,
NANG SEM KU SUM CHAR WAR DZO CHIK
And to realize appearance and mind arising as the three kayas.
KA GYU CHE ZHI CHUNG GYE KHYEN NO
Lamas of the four great and eight lesser Kagyu lineages, thinks of us.
RANG NANG DAK PEI SHING NE ZIK SHIK
Behold us from the realm of pure appearances that naturally arise.
NE KAB ZHI YI TRUL PA SANG NE
Clear away the confusion of the four situations,
NAM TOK THA RU CHIN PAR DZO CHIK
And bring us to the perfection of experience and realization.
JE TSUN GONG MA NAM NGA KHYEN NO
Five Sakya forefathers, think of us.
KHOR DE YER ME LONG NE ZIK SHIK
Behold us from the expanse of samsara and nirvana inseparable.
NAM DAK TA GOM CHO SUM DREL NE
Help us to blend together pure view, meditation and action;
SANG WAY LAM CHOK TRO PAR DZO CHIK
Take us along the supreme path of the secret vajrayana.
NYAM ME SHANG PA KA GYU KHYEN NO
Lamas of the unequalled Shangpa Kagyu, think of us.
NAM DAK SANG GYE ZHING NE ZIK SHIK
Behold us from the totally pure realms of Buddhas.
THAB DROL NYAM LEN TSUL ZHIN JONG NE
Train us correctly in the methods of practice that bring liberation;
MI LOB ZUNG JUK NYE PAR DZO CHIK
Lead us to discover the path of no more learning, the ultimate union.
DRUB CHEN THANG TONG GYAL PO KHYEN NO
Great Siddha, Thangton Gyalpo, thinks of us.
TSOL ME THUK JEY LONG NE ZIK SHIK
Behold us from the expanse of effortless compassion.
DEN ME TOK PAY TUL ZHUK DRUB NE
Enable us to attain the discipline that brings realization of
LUNG SEM RANG WANG DU WAR DZO CHIK
Ultimate non-existence, and to master prana and mind.
PHA CHIK DAM PA SANG GYE KHYEN NO
Only father, Dampa Sangya, thinks of us.
LE RAB DRUB PAY YING NE ZIK SHIK
Behold us from the space of the accomplishing supreme activity.
GYU PAY CHIN LAB NYING LA ZHUK NE
Bring into our heart the blessing of the lineage,
TEN DREL CHOK ME CHAR WAR DZO CHIK
And make auspicious signs arise in all directions.
MA CHIK LAB KYI DRON MA KHYEN NO
Only mother, Labkyi Dronma, thinks of us.
SHE RAB PHAR CHIN LONG NE SIK ZHIK
Behold us from the space of prajnaparamita.
DAK DZIN NYEM CHE TSE NE CHO CHING
Enable us to uproot ego-clinging, the source of pride,

DAK ME TRO DRAL DEN THONG DZO CHIK
And see the truth of egolessness, beyond conception.
KUN KHYEN DOL PO SANG GYE KHYEN NO
Omniscient Dolpa Sangya, thinks of us.
NAM KUN CHOK DEN YING NE ZIK SHIK
Behold us from the space endowed with all supreme aspects.
PHO WAY UG NAM U MAR GAK NE
Help us to bring into the central channel, the prana of transference
PHO DRAL DOR JEI KU THOB DZO CHIK
And to train the immovable vajra body.
JE TSUN TA RA NA THA KHYEN NO
Jetsun Taranatha, thinks of us.
NAM SUM PO NYAY YING NE ZIK SHIK
Behold us from the space of the three mudras.
DOR JEY SANG LAM GEK ME DRO NE
Help us to travel without obstacle, the secret vajra path,
JA LU KHA CHO DRUB PAR DZO CHIK
And bring us to the attainment of a rainbow body, the enjoyment of all space
JAM YANG KHYEN TSE WANG PO KHYEN NO
Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo, thinks of us.
KHYEN NYI YE SHE YING NE ZIK SHIK
Behold us from the space of primordial wisdom that knows
MI SHE LO YI MUN PA SANG NE
Clear away the mental darkness of ignorance;
KHYEN RAB NANG WA GYE PAR DZO CHIK
Increase the luminosity of our supreme intelligence.
O SAL TRUL PEI DOR JE KHYEN NO
Osel Tulpay Dorje, thinks of us.
JA ZER O NGEI LONG NE ZIK SHIK
Behold us from the expanse of the five rainbow lights
THIK LUNG SEM KYI DRI ME DAK NE
Purify the stains from bindu, prana, and mind.
ZHON NU BUM KUR CHANG CHUB DZO CHIK
And bring to the enlightenment of youthful vase body.
PE MA DO NGAK LING PA KHYEN NO
Pema Do Ngak Lingpa, thinks of us.
DE TONG GYUR ME LONG NE ZIK SHIK
Behold us from the expanse of unchanging bliss and emptiness inseparable.
GYEL DANG GYEL SE GONG PA THA DAK
Enable us to fulfill perfectly
DAK GI YONG SU KONG NU DZO CHIK
The intentions of all the Buddha and bodhisattvas.
NGAK WANG YON TEN GYA TSO KHYEN NO
Ngakwang Yonten Gyamtso, thinks of us.
YING YE ZUNG JUK LONG NE SIK SHIK
Behold us from the expanse of space and primordial wisdom in union.
NANG WAY DEN DZIN HRUL GYI ZHIK NE
May we stop taking appearances to be real;
GANG JUNG LAM DU KHYER NU DZO CHIK
Develop our ability to carry onto the path whatever arises.
GYEL SE LO DRO THA YE KHYEN NO
Bodhisattva Lodro Thaye, thinks of us.
JAM DANG NYING JEI NGANG NE ZIK SHIK
Behold us from your state of loving-kindness and compassion.
DRO KUN DRIN CHEN PHA MA SHE NE
Enable us recognize all beings as our kind parents;
ZHEN PHEN NYING NE DRUB NU DZO CHIK
Develop our ability to benefit others from the depth of our hearts.
PE MA GAR GYI WANG CHUK KYEN NO
Pema Garyi Wangchuk, thinks of us.
DE CHEN O SEL YING NE ZIK SHIK
Behold us from the expanse of great bliss and luminosity.
DUK NGA YE SHE NGA RU DROL NE
Liberate the five poisons into five wisdom;
PANG THOB NYI DZIN ZHIK PAR DZO CHIK
May our dualistic clinging to loss and gain disappear.
TEN NYI YUNG DRUNG LING PA KHYEN NO
Tenyi Yungdrung Lingpa, thinks of us.
SID ZHI NYAM NYI YING NE ZIK SHIK
Behold us from the space where samsara and nirvana are equal.
MO GU NAL MA GYU LA KYE NE
Engender genuine devotion in our mind;
TOK DROL DU NYAM CHEN POR DZO CHIK
Bring us to simultaneous realization and liberation.
DRIN CHEN TSA WEI LAMA KHYEN NO
King root lama, thinks of us.
CHI TSUK DE CHEN NE NE ZIK SHIK
Behold us from the place of great bliss on the crown of our head.
RANG RIK CHO KUE RANG ZHAL JAL NE
Bring us to meet the very face of the dharmakaya, the awareness of our true nature,
TSE CHIK SANG GYE DRUB DZO CHIK
And in this very life, bring us to complete enlightenment.
KYE MA DAK DREI SEM CHEN LE NGEN DIK TO CHE
Alas, sentient beings like ourselves, who have committed negative actions,
THOK ME DU NE KHOR WAR YUN RING KHYAM
Wander in samsara from beginningless time.
DA RUNG DUK NGAL THA ME NYONG GYUR WAY
Still experiencing endless suffering,
KYO SHE YE CHIK TSAM YANG MA KYE PAY
We do not feel even an instant of repentance.
LAMA KHYEN NO THUK JEY NYUR DU ZIK
Lama, thinks of us, beholds us swiftly with compassion.
NGE JUNG TING NE KYE WAR CHIN GYI LOB
Bless us that renunciation arise from the depth of our heart.
DAL JOR THOB KYANG MI TSE TONG ZE KHEN
Although we have attained a precious human birth with leisure and resources, we waste it in vain,
DON ME TSE DIR JHA WAY TAK TU YENG
Constantly distracted by the activities of this hollow life.
DON CHEN THAR PA DRUB LA LE LO KHYER
When it comes to accomplishing the great goal of liberation, we are overcome by laziness
NOR BUY LING NE LAK TONG LOK GYUR PAY
And return empty-handed from a land filled with jewels.
LAMA KHYEN NO THUK JEY NYUR DU ZIK
Lama, thinks of us, beholds us swiftly with compassion.
MI LU DON DEN DRUB PAR JIN GYI LOB
Bless us that we make this life meaningful.
MI SHI SA TENG LU PA CHIK KYANG ME
There is no one on this earth that will not die.
DA TA CHIK JE NYI THU PHA ROL DRO
Even now, people are passing away, one after the other.
RANG YANG NYUR WA NYI DU CHI GO KYANG
We also soon must die,
YUN RING DO DRAB CHE PAY NYING RUL PO
But like a fool, we plan to livelong.
LAMA KHYEN NO THUK JEY NYUK DU ZIK
Lama, thinks of us, beholds us swiftly with compassion.
LONG ME LO NA THUNG WAR JIN GYI LOB
Bless us that we curtail all our scheming.
NYING DU DUK PAY DZA SHE SO SOR DRAL
We will be separated from our closest friends.
SER NAY SAK PAY NOR DZE ZHEN GYI CHO
Others will enjoy the wealth we as misers kept.
CHE PAY LU KYANG SHUL DU BOR NE SU
Even our body we hold so dear would be left behind,
NAM SHE BAR DO TOL ME KHOR WAR KHYAM
And our consciousness will wander without direction in the bardo of samsara.
LAMA KHYEN NO THUK JEY NYUR DU ZIK
Lama, thinks of us, beholds us swiftly with compassion.
CHI KYANG GO ME TOK PAR JIN GYI LOP
Bless us that we realize the futility of this life.
JIK PAY MUN PA NAK POE NGON NE SU
In front, the black darkness of fear waits to take us in;
LE GYI LUNG MAR DRAK PO GYAB NE DE
From behind, we are chased by the fierce red wind of karma.
MI DUK SHIN JE PHO NAY DEK CHING TSOK
The hideous messengers of the lord of death beat and stab us,
ZO KA NGEN DROY DUK NGAL NYONG GO NA
And so we must experience the unbearable sufferings of the lower realms.
LAMA KHYEN NO THUK JEY NYUR DU ZIK
Lama, thinks of us, beholds us swiftly with compassion.
NGEN SONG YANG LE THAR WAR JHIN GYI LOB
Bless us that we are liberated from chasms of lower realms.
RANG KYON RO WO TSAM YANG KHONG DU BE
We conceal within ourselves a mountain of faults;
ZHEN KYON TIL DRU TSAM YANG DROK CHING MO
Yet, we put down others and broadcast their shortcomings, though they be minute as a sesame seed.
YON TEN CHUNG ZE ME KYANG ZANG POR LOM
Though we have not the slightest good qualities, we boast saying how great we are.
CHO PAY MING TAK CHO MIN KHO NA CHO
We have the label of Dharma practitioners, but practice only non-Dharma.
LAMA KHYEN NO THUK JE NYUR DU ZIK
Lama, thinks of us, beholds us swiftly with compassion.
RANG DO NGA GYAL ZHI WAR CHIN GYI LOB
Bless us that we loose our pride and self-centredness.
TEN PHUNG DAK DZIN GONG PO KHONG DU CHUK
We conceal within the demon of ego-clinging that always brings us to ruin.
SAM TSE THAM CHE NYON MONG PHEL WAY GYU
All our thoughts cause kleshas to increase.
JHE TSE THAM CHE MI GEY DRE BU CHEN
All our actions have non-virtuous results.
THAR PAY LAM DU CHOK TSAM MA CHIN PAY
We have not even turned towards the path of liberation.
LAMA KHYEN NO THUK JE NYUR DU ZIK
Lama, thinks of us, beholds us swiftly with compassion.
NGAR DZIN TSE NE CHO PAR JIN GYI LOB
Bless us that grasping onto a self be uprooted.
TO ME TSAM LA GA DANG MA GA KYE
A little praise makes us happy; a little blame makes us sad.
TSIK NGEN TSAM LA ZO PAY GO CHA SHOR
With a few harsh words, we loose the armor of our patience.
NYAM TAK THONG YANG NYING JEY SEM MI KYE
Even if we see those who are destitute, no compassion arises.
JIN YUL JUNG DU SER NAY DU PAY CHING
When there is an opportunity to be generous, we are tied in knots by greed.
LAMA KHYEN NO THUK JEY NYUR DU ZIK
Lama, thinks of us, beholds us swiftly with compassion.
SEM GYU CHO DANG DRE PA JIN GYI LOB
Bless us that our mind be one with the Dharma.
KHOR WA NYING PO ME LA NYING POR ZUNG
We think samsara is worthwhile, when it is not.
TO GO CHIR DU TEN DUN LING GI BOR
We give up our higher vision for the sake of food and clothes.
KHO GU TSANG YANG GO GO CHI CHIR MANG
Although we have all that is needed, we constantly want more.
MI DEN GYU MAY CHO GYI RANG SEM LU
Our minds are deceived by unreal, illusory phenomena.
LAMA KHYEN NO THUK JEY NYUR DU ZIK
Lama, thinks of us, beholds us swiftly with compassion.
TSE DI LO YI THONG WAR JIN GYI LOB
Bless us that we let go of the attachment to this life.
LU SEM DUK NGAL TRA MOANG MI ZO KYANG
Not able to endure the merest physical or mental pain.
NGEN DROR DRO LA MI TSER NYING DOL CHEN
With blind courage, we do not hesitate to fall into lower realms.
GYU DRE LU ME NGON SUM THONG ZHIN DU
Although we see directly the unfailing law of cause and effect,
GE WA MI DRUB DIK PAY YO LANG PHEL
We do not act virtuously, but increase our wholesome activity.
LAMA KHYEN NO THUK JE NYUR DU ZIK
Lama, thinks of us, beholds us swiftly with compassion.
LE LA YI CHE KYE WAR CHIN GYI LOB
Bless us that we come to trust completely in the law of karma.
DRA LA DANG SEM NYEN LA CHAK SEM KYE
We hate our enemies and cling to friends.
LANG DOR NE LA TI MUK MUN TAR THOM
Lost in the darkness of ignorance, we do not know what to accept of reject.
CHO ZHIN CHO TSE JHING MUK NYI WANG SHOR
When practicing Dharma, we fall into dullness, drowsiness, and sleep.
CHO MIN CHO TSE WANG PO SAL CHING DRUNG
When not practicing Dharma, we are clever and our senses are clear.
LAMA KHYEN NO THUK JE NYUR DU ZIK
Lama, thinks of us, beholds us swiftly with compassion.
NYON MONG DRA WO CHOM PAR JING GYI LOB
Bless us that we overcome our enemy, the kleshas.
CHI NE TE NA YANG DAK CHO PAY ZUK
From the outside, we appear to be genuine Dharma practitioners;
NANG DU RANG SEM CHO DANG MA DRE PAY
On the inside, our minds have not blended with the Dharma.
DRUL DUK ZHIN DU NYON MONG KONG NA BE
We conceal our kleshas inside like a poisonous snake,
KYEN NGEN TRE TSE CHO PAY TSANG TAK TON
Yet when difficult situations arise, the hidden faults of a poor practitioner come to light.
LAMA KHYEN NO THUK JEY NYUR DU ZIK
Lama, thinks of us, beholds us swiftly with compassion.
RANG GYU RANG GI THUL WAR JIN GYI LOB
Bless us that we ourselves are able to tame our mind.
RANG KYON NGEN PA RANG GI MA TOK PAY
Not recognizing our own faults,
CHO PAY ZUK ZUNG CHO MIN NA TSOK CHO
We take the form of a Dharma practitioner, while engaging in non-Dharmic pursuits.
NYO MONG MI GEY LE LA SHUK KYI GOM
We are habituated to kleshas and non-virtuous activity.
GE LO YANG YANG KYE KYANG YANG YANG CHE
Again and again virtuous intentions arise; again and again they are cut off.
LAMA KHYEN NO THUK JEY NYUR DU ZIK
Lama, thinks of us, beholds us swiftly with compassion.
RANG KYON RANG GI THONG WAR JING GYI LOB
Bless us that we see our own faults.
ZHAK RE SONG ZHIN CHI LA PHAR PHAR NYE
With the passing of each day, we come closer and closer to death.
NYIN RE LONG ZHIN RANG GYU CHI CHIR GYONG
As each day arrives, our mind gets more and more rigid.
LAMA TEN ZHIN MO GU RIM GYI DRIB
Though we serve the lama. Our devotion is gradually obscured.
CHE LA TSE DUNG DAK NANG JE CHUNG SONG
Our love, affection, and pure outlook, towards our Dharma friends diminish.
LAMA KHYEN NO THUK JE NYUR DU ZIK
Lama, thinks of us, beholds us swiftly with compassion.
MU GO RANG GYU THUL WAR JIN GYI LOB
Bless us that we tame our obstinate mind.
KHYAB DRO SEM KYE SOL DEB CHE NA YANG
Although we have take refuge, engendered bodhicitta, and made prayers,
MO GU NYING JE TING NE MA KYE PAY
Devotion and compassion have not arisen in the depth of our being.
TSIK TSAM WANG GYUR CHO CHO GE JOR NAM
Dharma activity and the practice of virtue have turned into hollow words.
JED LO TSAM LE GYU THOK MA KHEL WAY
Our empty achievements are many, but none more have moved our mind.
LAMA KHYEN NO THUK JEY NYUR DU ZIK
Lama, thinks of us, beholds us swiftly with compassion.
CHI CHE CHO SU DRO WAR JIN GYI LOB
Bless us that whatever we do is harmony with Dharma.
DAK DE DO LE DUG NGAL THAM CHE JUNG
All suffering arises from wanting our own happiness;
ZHEN PEN SEM GYI SANG GYE DRUB SUNG KYANG
Although it is taught that enlightenment is attained through benefiting others,
SEM CHOK KYE CHING RANG DO PHUK TU CHUK
We engender bodhicitta, while secretly cherishing our own desires.
ZHEN PEN TA CHI ZHEN NO ZHOR LA BRUB
We do not benefit others, and further, we even unconsciously harm them.
LAMA KYEN NO THUK JEY NYUR DU ZIK
Lama, thinks of us, beholds us swiftly with compassion.
DAK ZHEN JE PAR NU PAR JIN GYI LOB
Bless us that we are able to exchange self for others.
SANG GYE NGO NANG LAMA MI RU ZUNG
Our lama is actually the appearance of the Buddha himself,
But we take him to be an ordinary human being.
DAM ZAB TON PAY KA DRIN NGANG GI JE
We come to forget the lama's kindness in giving us profound instructions.
RANG DO MA JUNG TSE NA YI CHE GOM
We are upset if we do not get what we want.
DZE CHO NAM LA THE TSOM LOK TA DRIB
We see the lama's activity and behaviour through the veil of doubts and wrong views.
LAMA KHYEN NO THUK JEY NYUR DU ZIK
Lama, thinks of us, beholds us swiftly with compassion.
MO GU DRIB ME PHEL WAR JIN GYI LOB
Bless us that free of obscurations, our devotion increase.
RANG SEM SANG GYE YIN KYANG NGO MA SHE
Our own mind is the Buddha, but we do not recognize it.
NAM TOK CHO KU YIN KYANG DON MA TOK
All concepts are the dhamakaya, but we do not realize it.
MA CHO NYUK MA YIN KYANG KYONG MA NU
This is the uncontrived natural state, but we cannot sustain it.
RANG BAB NE LUK YIN KYANG YI MA CHE
This is the true nature of the mind, settled into itself, but we are unable to believe it.
LAMA KHYEN NO THUK JE NYUR DU ZIK
Lama, thinks of us, beholds us swiftly with compassion.
RANG RIK RANG SAR DROL WAR JIN GYI LOB
Bless us that self-awareness be liberated into its ground.
YONG NGE CHI WA NYING NE DREN MA THUB
Death is certain to come, but we are unable to take this to heart.
PHEN NGE DAM CHO TSUL ZHIN DRUB MA NU
Genuine Dharma is certain to benefit, but we are unable to practice correctly.
DEN NGE LE DRE LANG DOR TSUL ZHIN ME
The truth of karma, is certain, but we do not decide correctly what to give up and accept.
GO NGE DREN SHE MA TEN YENG WAY KHYER
It is certainly necessary to be mindful and alert, but these qualities are not stable in us, and we are carried away by distraction.
LAMA KHYEN NO THUK JEY NYUR DU ZIK
Lama, thinks of us, beholds us swiftly with compassion.
YENG ME DREN PAY ZIN PAR JIN GYI LOB
Bless us that we stay mindful with no distractions.
NGON LE NGEN PAY NYIK MAY DU THAR KYE
Out of previous negative karma, we are born at the end this degenerate time.
NGAR JE THAM CHE DUK NGAL GYU RU SONG
Al our previous actions have become the cause of suffering.
DROK NGEN NAM KYI DIK PAY DRIB MAY YOK
Bad friends cast over us, the shadow of their negative actions.
DON ME LENG MO GE JOR YENG WAY KHYER
Our practice of virtue is corrupted by meaningless gossip.
LAMA KHYEN NO THUK JE NYUR DU ZIK
Lama, thinks of us, beholds us swiftly with compassion.
CHO LA NYING RU NU PAR JIN GYI LOB
Bless us that we take the Dharma deep to heart.
DANG POR SAM GYU CHO LE ME PA LA
At first there is nothing but Dharma on our mind.
THA MA DRUB DRE KHOR WA NGEN SONG GYU
But at the end, the result is the cause of samsara and lower realms.
THAR PAY LO TOK MI GEY SE KYI CHOM
The harvest of liberation is destroyed by the frost of unwholesome activity.
TEN DUN NYE PAY MU GO DAK DRA NAM
We, like wild savages, have lost our ultimate vision.
LAMA KHYEN NO THUK JEY NYUR DU ZIK
Lama, thinks of us, beholds us swiftly with compassion.
DAM CHO THA RU CHIN PAR JIN GYI LOB
Bless us that within we bring the genuine Dharma to perfection.
KYO SHE TING NE KYE WAR JIN GYI LOB
Bless us that repentance arise deep from within.
LONG ME LO NA THUNG WAR JIN GYI LOB
Bless us that we curtail all our scheming.
CHI WA NYING NE DREN PAR JIN GYI LOB
Bless us that from the depth of our heart, we remember death.
LE LA YI CHE KYE WAR JIN GYI LOB
Bless us that we develop certainty in the law of karma.
LAM LA BAR CHE ME PAR JIN GYI LOB
Bless us that our path is free of obstacles.
DRUB LA TSON DRU NU PAR JIN GYI LOB
Bless us that we are able to exert ourselves in practice.
KHYEN NGEN LAM DU LONG WAR JIN GYI LOB
Bless us that we bring difficult situations into the path.
NYEN PO RANG TSUK THUB PAR JIN GYI LOB
Bless us that antidotes, through their own power, are completely effective.
CHO MIN MO GU KYE WAR CHIN GYI LOB
Bless us that genuine devotion arise.
NE LUK RANG ZHEL JEL WAR JIN GYI LOB
Bless us that we see the very face of the mind's true nature.
RANG RIK NYING U SE PAR JIN GYI LOB
Bless us that self-awareness awaken in the center of our heart.
TRUL NANG ZHI TSA CHO PAR JIN GYI LOB
Bless us that delusive appearances are completely eliminated.
TSE CHIK SANG GYE DRUB PAR JIN GYI LOB
Bless us that we achieve enlightenment in one lifetime.
SOL WA DEB SO LA MA RIN PO CHE
We pray to you, precious lama.
DUNG WAY BO DO DRIN CHEN CHO KYI JE
Kind lama, lord of Dharma, we call out to you with longing.
KAL ME DAK LA RE SA KHYO LE ME
For us, unworthy ones, you are the only hope.
THUK YI YER ME DRE PAR CHIN GYI LOB
Bless us that your mind blends with ours.
You can listen to it here:
http://www.last.fm/music/Lama%2BGyurme%2B%2526%2BJean-Philippe%2BRykiel/_/Calling+The+Lama+From+Afar

:namaste:
"A genius is a person who, on a beach full of nudists, can remember peoples faces!"  Arka

Offline Dairy Lama

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Re: Is a Teacher Really Necessary?
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2010, 03:19:48 am »
Spiny also suggests that for some, working without a teacher or in a formal setting may be preferable. 

I meant possible rather than preferable really.  I mean if it's a choice between practising without a teacher or not practising, then IMO it's better to practice.

Spiny
"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream"

Offline Dairy Lama

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Re: Is a Teacher Really Necessary?
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2010, 03:25:18 am »
Yes.  In a way it's a more courageous approach to take.
Courageous?  If there is a good teacher available then going it alone is not courageous, it just plain foolish!

I meant it's more courageous to tread a path without access to a teacher. 
There are of course related questions about what a "teacher" is, how dependent to be on a teacher, whether there is a "right" way to practice, whether we acknowledge diversity or cling to orthodoxy, etc etc.

Spiny
"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream"

Offline Ngawang Drolma

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Re: Is a Teacher Really Necessary?
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2010, 07:14:31 am »
I'm not sure, but IS there a tradition that does NOT put emphasis on a guide for the dharma or that advocates going at it solo?

If not, then I'd think after a few millennia, there might be a reason why...?

The answer would not necessarily lie in the tradition if you don't have a tradition.  But the answer would lie with whichever guide you chose?

Dunno, not tryin' to split hairs, just seems like a distinction that's important to know about.  First question (above) being the most important.   Is there a tradition that does not advocate or advise a teacher?   

Hi humanitas  :)

Yes I think you're quite right, a teacher/guide is always a big benefit on the path.

Kindly,
Laura

GoGet

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Re: Is a Teacher Really Necessary?
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2010, 09:29:11 am »
I meant it's more courageous to tread a path without access to a teacher. 
I think that was understood.

That may have been true is some time and place in the past, but today the only way a student takes the path without a teacher in this day/age is if the choose to do so and that, my friend is a foolish choice.

Quote
There are of course related questions about what a "teacher" is, how dependent to be on a teacher, whether there is a "right" way to practice, whether we acknowledge diversity or cling to orthodoxy, etc etc.

Nit picking over irrelevant details.  The OP asked for no definition of a teacher or any of the other things you mention.

What is a teacher?  Read "Words of My Perfect Teacher".

A right way to practice? Sure, if you think there is a wrong way to practice then surely there must be a right way.

Diversity?  What does that have to do with anything?

Clinging to orthodoxy?  Hmmmmm..... In no way different from clinging to diversity.

All that said, it's still very foolish to attempt the path without a teacher.   It's like trying to climb a mountain you've never seen before.  Yeah, you can do it but a guide not only makes the climb easier, the guide makes it a lot safer.

It seems you have some fundamental objection to having a teacher.  Why is that?

Offline gregkavarnos

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Re: Is a Teacher Really Necessary?
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2010, 09:45:11 am »
Coz he IS a teacher!  :D
"A genius is a person who, on a beach full of nudists, can remember peoples faces!"  Arka

GoGet

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Re: Is a Teacher Really Necessary?
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2010, 09:50:20 am »
THis sort of thing disturbs me.  I find it disturbing because it's being presented without caveat and seems to me to grossly misinformed.

Also from Dhamma Wiki:

"Teacher and Disciple"
http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=Teacher_and_disciple


A teacher (garu, Sanskrit guru) is a person who imparts skills or knowledge and a disciple (sàvaka) is one who learns from a teacher.

In some religions, and even within the Vajrayana branch of Buddhism, the disciple is expected to dedicate him or her self totally to the teacher and obey him unquestioningly.


Id sure like to know where the author came up with that.

I practice in the Vajrayana and I've never been told of any such expectation especially unquestioning obedience.  There are many Tantrika who obey their guru without question but I believe that arises out of devotion rather than some expectation.

The relationship with the guru is often taught like this:  If you view your guru as an ordinary being you recieve the blessing of a ordinary being's teaching.  If you view the teacher as a Bodhisattva you recieve the blessings of a Bodhisattva.  If you view the guru as a fully enlightened Buddha the the blessing willl be that of a fully enlightened Buddha.  Most people, in the presense of a Buddha, would follow the instruction for study and practice the Buddha gave them.  They, of course, have every right to question the Buddha, but once the instructions were made clear, the student would follow them.

I've never be told or shown that my guru requires or expects unquestioning obedience.  I wouldn't follow a teacher who did

Quote
This is very much at odds with what the Buddha both taught to and required from his disciples.


Yes it is.  However, I'll say again that what the author of the piece wrote is uninformed and wrong.  Heybai, did you question that writer or did you assume, unquestioningly, that what he/she wrote was true?

Quote
He advised that before learning under a teacher, and even while receiving instruction, the disciple should maintain a respectful but questioning and discriminating attitude. First, the disciple should investigate (vãmaüseyya) the teacher by watching and listening to see if his or her behaviour is consistent with what they teach. Continuing to investigate over a period of time, the disciple should try to see if the good qualities the teacher appears to have are internalized or only the result of making an effort or trying to impress


Does the author think such things are not followed in the Vajrayana?  In WOMPT, Paltrul Rinpoche devotes considerable time and effort to explain how a teacher/guru should be found and what criteria should be met by the teacher/guru.  PR also recommends 7 or more years to examine the teacher before commiting to him or her.


 


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