Author Topic: Is the Buddha Eternal? Is the Buddha a God?  (Read 394 times)

Offline Dharma Flower

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Is the Buddha Eternal? Is the Buddha a God?
« on: November 13, 2017, 09:43:17 pm »
A misconception of Mahayana doctrine is in regard to the eternality of the Buddha, which does not refer to Shakyamuni Buddha as a historical person. Nagarjuna and others made clear that the Buddha, in entering final Nirvana, is beyond existence and non-existence, just as the Buddha described in the Pali scriptures:
https://dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=Nibbana#Nagarjuna

What is eternal is the Dharma-body of the Buddha, which is the same Dharma-body in all buddhas:

Enough, Vakkali! What is there to see in this vile body? He who sees Dhamma, Vakkali, sees me; he who sees me sees Dhamma. Truly seeing Dhamma, one sees me; seeing me one sees Dhamma.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.087x.wlsh.html

The Dharma-body is also referred to as the Buddha-nature in all beings, our innate potential for enlightenment. In the Lotus Sutra, for example, the Buddha says that all other buddhas are a manifestation of himself. This is in reference to the Dharma-body of the Buddha, rather than Shakyamuni as a particular historical person.

A common phrase in Mahayana Buddhism is that there is no Buddha outside the mind. This means that if you are looking for the historical Buddha who passed away into Nirvana 2,500 years ago, you will not find him. The living Buddha is the Buddha within your own body and mind, waiting to be awakened as your own Buddha-nature.

The celestial buddhas and bodhisattvas, such as Amitabha and Avalokitesvara, are symbolic of our own Buddha-nature and the Dharma-body in all things, rather than literal historical persons like Shakyamuni Buddha. The Eternal Buddha, the Dharma-body, is an eternal principle rather than a personal being like a theistic god.

Offline ground

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Re: Is the Buddha Eternal? Is the Buddha a God?
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2017, 10:35:27 pm »
Fabrication is eternal.  :teehee:

Offline Rahul

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Re: Is the Buddha Eternal? Is the Buddha a God?
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2017, 06:48:46 pm »
Mayahana is highly corrupted, also it deviates a lot from Buddha's original teachings. Surprisingly they call themselves 'Mahayana' and consider Theravada (which is very close to the original teachings of Buddha) as 'Hinyana'. Maha = great, yana = vehicle. Hin = lowly, yana = vehicle.  Calling oneself great and considering others as lowly is apparently arrogance on their side. Mayahan is rife with several superstitious, illogical and other practices which contradict several of Buddha's fundamental teachings. One of the core purpose of Buddhist practices is to rise above this game of duals: existence vs. non-existence, mercy vs. cruelty, happiness vs. suffering, ... But Mahayanists totally overthrew this idea and started believing in: divine beings called Bodhisattvas, that come to existence again and again, in order to spread happiness and eliminate suffering in all living beings...

Buddha highly discouraged rituals, reliance on divine beings for salvation. He emphasized on striving and relying on one's own. Mahayana came up with the idea of repeating mantras of Avalokiteshvara as a means of getting rid of suffering and being born in 'pure land'...

The examples of contradictions are countless. And there are several fundamental contradictions that would make us think twice if Mahayana can be considered a school of Buddhism...

Offline loopix

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Re: Is the Buddha Eternal? Is the Buddha a God?
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2017, 07:48:55 pm »
Mayahana is highly corrupted, also it deviates a lot from Buddha's original teachings. Surprisingly they call themselves 'Mahayana' and consider Theravada (which is very close to the original teachings of Buddha) as 'Hinyana'. Maha = great, yana = vehicle. Hin = lowly, yana = vehicle.  Calling oneself great and considering others as lowly is apparently arrogance on their side. Mayahan is rife with several superstitious, illogical and other practices which contradict several of Buddha's fundamental teachings. One of the core purpose of Buddhist practices is to rise above this game of duals: existence vs. non-existence, mercy vs. cruelty, happiness vs. suffering, ... But Mahayanists totally overthrew this idea and started believing in: divine beings called Bodhisattvas, that come to existence again and again, in order to spread happiness and eliminate suffering in all living beings...

Buddha highly discouraged rituals, reliance on divine beings for salvation. He emphasized on striving and relying on one's own. Mahayana came up with the idea of repeating mantras of Avalokiteshvara as a means of getting rid of suffering and being born in 'pure land'...

The examples of contradictions are countless. And there are several fundamental contradictions that would make us think twice if Mahayana can be considered a school of Buddhism...


you got some of this wrong. first of all bodhisattvas are not supernatural or divine beings, it's anyone who has attained bodhiccitta, and that's not just a few. you probably know one or three....

as for the yanas, the hinayana is not called "the lower scope" because it is considered lower, but because of the aspiration of the practitionor (how do you spell that, lol). the theravada aims for personal liberaion, while the mahayana aims for the liberation of all beings.

mantras are means of concentrating the mind, not get red of suffering.

and rituals.. are maybe useful for some occasians, but mostly i agree, they are useless.

Offline Pixie

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Re: Is the Buddha Eternal? Is the Buddha a God?
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2017, 10:52:27 pm »
Mayahana is highly corrupted, also it deviates a lot from Buddha's original teachings. Surprisingly they call themselves 'Mahayana' and consider Theravada (which is very close to the original teachings of Buddha) as 'Hinyana'. Maha = great, yana = vehicle. Hin = lowly, yana = vehicle. 




For more about this, I recommend reading "The Hinayana Fallacy" by Bhikkhu Analayo :

http://jocbs.org/index.php/jocbs/article/view/72/92

and also "No Hinayana in Buddhism " By Chan Khoon San and Kare A. Lie

http://www.urbandharma.org/pdf/NoHinayana.pdf



_/|\_

May all beings have happiness and the causes of happiness.
May they all be free from suffering and the causes of suffering.
May they never be deprived of true happiness devoid of any suffering.
May they abide in great impartiality, free from attachment to loved ones and aversion to others.

Offline Rahul

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Re: Is the Buddha Eternal? Is the Buddha a God?
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2017, 11:48:36 pm »
Considering others as 'hin' (lowly) and oneself 'maha' by judging the aim of their practice vs. one's own practice is - to be precise - arrogance. Bodhisattva is just a concept forged by the 'mahayanists' to support their so-called superiority. Some of you may justify the purpose of mantra, but then why Buddha himself never taught any mantras or proposed mantra practice?

Offline loopix

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Re: Is the Buddha Eternal? Is the Buddha a God?
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2017, 12:01:03 am »
no. wrong again. they do not consider or regard themselveles or their practices superior.

it's like philosophy, the less superior it is, the more supirior it becomes, if that makes sense.

there is no judguing based on anything, its merely another label based on qualities and attributes of the individual practitioner, or "person" if you will.


Offline ground

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Re: Is the Buddha Eternal? Is the Buddha a God?
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2017, 02:19:38 am »
Discussing maha- and hinayana isn't worth the effort. If you remove all belief stuff from both what remains is one and the same philosophy of emptiness.  :fu:

Offline Spiny Norman

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Re: Is the Buddha Eternal? Is the Buddha a God?
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2017, 04:26:46 am »
Mayahana is highly corrupted...

I don't agree with that, and Mahayana and Theravada have a lot in common if you scratch the surface.  You could argue that the "corruption" began once Buddhism spread from India, and Buddhadharma merged with other religions like Bon and Taoism.

Offline IdleChater

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Re: Is the Buddha Eternal? Is the Buddha a God?
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2017, 06:45:20 am »
Mayahana is highly corrupted, also it deviates a lot from Buddha's original teachings.
I don't think so.


Quote
Surprisingly they call themselves 'Mahayana' and consider Theravada (which is very close to the original teachings of Buddha) as 'Hinyana'. Maha = great, yana = vehicle. Hin = lowly, yana = vehicle.

The two compared, and from a Mahayana perspective, Hinayana is an inferior path.  Mahayana is the path of a Bodhisattva.  The Bodhisattva takes this path is for the benefit of all beings in samsara.  The Hinayana is a path of individual liberation and that's all.  What would you say is the greater (if we have to talk about it is such terms)?  The path of a person who's main concern is his/her own liberation or the person whose path is dedicated to the liberation of sentient beings ahead of his/her own?

Decide for yourself. 

You may say that you're a Theravedin and your practice is for the the benefit of beings.  That would mean you're a Theravadin on the Mahayana path.  Nothing in Mahayana teachings prohibit such things.


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Calling oneself great and considering others as lowly is apparently arrogance on their side.

No arrogance.  Simply a matter of perspective.


Quote
Mayahan is rife with several superstitious, illogical and other practices which contradict several of Buddha's fundamental teachings. One of the core purpose of Buddhist practices is to rise above this game of duals: existence vs. non-existence, mercy vs. cruelty, happiness vs. suffering, ... But Mahayanists totally overthrew this idea and started believing in: divine beings called Bodhisattvas, that come to existence again and again, in order to spread happiness and eliminate suffering in all living beings...

You really don't know anything about Mahayana or even Buddhism as it's practiced, do you?

Quote
Buddha highly discouraged rituals, reliance on divine beings for salvation. He emphasized on striving and relying on one's own. Mahayana came up with the idea of repeating mantras of Avalokiteshvara as a means of getting rid of suffering and being born in 'pure land'...

The Buddha taught 88,000 Dharmas according to the capacity of his students.  Then as now, there are some folks who simply don't get the Mahayana and it's practices.  Any teacher worthy of the name would discourage a student from doing what he or she doesn't or can't understand.

Quote
The examples of contradictions are countless. And there are several fundamental contradictions that would make us think twice if Mahayana can be considered a school of Buddhism...

Don't be a jerk.  Mahayana isn't a school.  It's a tradition.  And like it or not that tradition is a part of Buddhism.  Get over it.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 08:07:53 am by IdleChater »

Offline IdleChater

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Re: Is the Buddha Eternal? Is the Buddha a God?
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2017, 08:11:26 am »
Mayahana is highly corrupted...

I don't agree with that, and Mahayana and Theravada have a lot in common if you scratch the surface.  You could argue that the "corruption" began once Buddhism spread from India, and Buddhadharma merged with other religions like Bon and Taoism.

I wouldn't call it corruption, but whatever you call it, it's inevitable.  A religion, like any cultural component will, as it grows and spreads, will confront other cultural components.  It will adapt to that culture.  This is why you have such a broad range of what defines Buddhism.

Offline meez

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Re: Is the Buddha Eternal? Is the Buddha a God?
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2017, 12:11:16 pm »
Mayahana is highly corrupted, also it deviates a lot from Buddha's original teachings. Surprisingly they call themselves 'Mahayana' and consider Theravada (which is very close to the original teachings of Buddha) as 'Hinyana'. Maha = great, yana = vehicle. Hin = lowly, yana = vehicle.  Calling oneself great and considering others as lowly is apparently arrogance on their side. Mayahan is rife with several superstitious, illogical and other practices which contradict several of Buddha's fundamental teachings. One of the core purpose of Buddhist practices is to rise above this game of duals: existence vs. non-existence, mercy vs. cruelty, happiness vs. suffering, ... But Mahayanists totally overthrew this idea and started believing in: divine beings called Bodhisattvas, that come to existence again and again, in order to spread happiness and eliminate suffering in all living beings...

Buddha highly discouraged rituals, reliance on divine beings for salvation. He emphasized on striving and relying on one's own. Mahayana came up with the idea of repeating mantras of Avalokiteshvara as a means of getting rid of suffering and being born in 'pure land'...

The examples of contradictions are countless. And there are several fundamental contradictions that would make us think twice if Mahayana can be considered a school of Buddhism...

Rahul:  I'm in full support of dissecting different views and having a civil discussion about these things.  Starting a post by claiming that a particular sect or set of beliefs is corrupt doesn't contribute to a civil discussion.  I'm sure you can understand why, so let's refrain from going in that direction.

Offline Rahul

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Re: Is the Buddha Eternal? Is the Buddha a God?
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2017, 09:13:51 pm »
Mayahana is highly corrupted, also it deviates a lot from Buddha's original teachings. Surprisingly they call themselves 'Mahayana' and consider Theravada (which is very close to the original teachings of Buddha) as 'Hinyana'. Maha = great, yana = vehicle. Hin = lowly, yana = vehicle.  Calling oneself great and considering others as lowly is apparently arrogance on their side. Mayahan is rife with several superstitious, illogical and other practices which contradict several of Buddha's fundamental teachings. One of the core purpose of Buddhist practices is to rise above this game of duals: existence vs. non-existence, mercy vs. cruelty, happiness vs. suffering, ... But Mahayanists totally overthrew this idea and started believing in: divine beings called Bodhisattvas, that come to existence again and again, in order to spread happiness and eliminate suffering in all living beings...

Buddha highly discouraged rituals, reliance on divine beings for salvation. He emphasized on striving and relying on one's own. Mahayana came up with the idea of repeating mantras of Avalokiteshvara as a means of getting rid of suffering and being born in 'pure land'...

The examples of contradictions are countless. And there are several fundamental contradictions that would make us think twice if Mahayana can be considered a school of Buddhism...

Rahul:  I'm in full support of dissecting different views and having a civil discussion about these things.  Starting a post by claiming that a particular sect or set of beliefs is corrupt doesn't contribute to a civil discussion.  I'm sure you can understand why, so let's refrain from going in that direction.

'Corrupt' is a civil word. What's not civil is calling people 'jerk' and claiming like 'you don't know anything about this or that'. Couldn't you read what some other people just posted before your post? What kind of moderation is this?

Offline ground

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Re: Is the Buddha Eternal? Is the Buddha a God?
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2017, 11:28:08 pm »
The yield of mahayana is leaving mahayana behind. The yield of theravada is leaving theravada behind. Empty of mahayana, empty of theravada ... just emptiness. Same yield, no difference.  :fu:

Offline meez

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Re: Is the Buddha Eternal? Is the Buddha a God?
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2017, 09:12:53 am »
Mayahana is highly corrupted, also it deviates a lot from Buddha's original teachings. Surprisingly they call themselves 'Mahayana' and consider Theravada (which is very close to the original teachings of Buddha) as 'Hinyana'. Maha = great, yana = vehicle. Hin = lowly, yana = vehicle.  Calling oneself great and considering others as lowly is apparently arrogance on their side. Mayahan is rife with several superstitious, illogical and other practices which contradict several of Buddha's fundamental teachings. One of the core purpose of Buddhist practices is to rise above this game of duals: existence vs. non-existence, mercy vs. cruelty, happiness vs. suffering, ... But Mahayanists totally overthrew this idea and started believing in: divine beings called Bodhisattvas, that come to existence again and again, in order to spread happiness and eliminate suffering in all living beings...

Buddha highly discouraged rituals, reliance on divine beings for salvation. He emphasized on striving and relying on one's own. Mahayana came up with the idea of repeating mantras of Avalokiteshvara as a means of getting rid of suffering and being born in 'pure land'...

The examples of contradictions are countless. And there are several fundamental contradictions that would make us think twice if Mahayana can be considered a school of Buddhism...

Rahul:  I'm in full support of dissecting different views and having a civil discussion about these things.  Starting a post by claiming that a particular sect or set of beliefs is corrupt doesn't contribute to a civil discussion.  I'm sure you can understand why, so let's refrain from going in that direction.

'Corrupt' is a civil word. What's not civil is calling people 'jerk' and claiming like 'you don't know anything about this or that'. Couldn't you read what some other people just posted before your post? What kind of moderation is this?

"Corrupt" by itself is a civil word.  Claiming that someone's closely held personal beliefs are part of a corrupt sect isn't civil by any means, and won't foster reasonable discussion on the subject.  I think we can both agree there was probably a more constructive approach available to discussing your points.

Additionally, this is the second time in a short period that you have raised issue with the way this site is moderated.  If you disagree with the moderation methods that are employed here, you are welcome to follow the path that leads to the exit.  Hopefully you decide to stick around and contribute.

 


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