Author Topic: Practicing the Eightfold Path  (Read 3585 times)

Offline Chaz

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Practicing the Eightfold Path
« on: July 16, 2018, 12:53:51 pm »
How does one practice the Eightfold Path?  What is the scriptural basis for this practice?  Take the case of Right View for example.  View is how you see things.  Changing how you see things can be difficult, if not impossible for most people.  Seeing as the Buddha often described the practice he was teaching, what are the sutras that describe the practice as he taught it?

Offline philboyd

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2018, 08:36:36 pm »
Start with the Magga-vibhanga Sutta
You will find it at accesstoinsight.org
Nagara Sutta
same address
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 05:32:17 am by philboyd »
Peace

Offline Ron-the-Elder

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2018, 12:06:28 am »
Thank you for the references, philboyd.

IdleChater:  I found these also helpful:  See also: MN 117; SN 3:5; AN 4:28; AN 4:128; AN 4:245; AN 5:75—76; AN 6:20; AN 10:17

...all of which can be found here:  https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html as well as @ https://www.accesstoinsight.org/index-sutta.html

Magnificent question, by the way.   :hug:

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN117.html

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN3_5.html

« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 05:28:38 am by Ron-the-Elder »
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

Offline Chaz

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2018, 03:43:09 am »
Thank you for the references, philboyd.

IdleChater:  I found these also helpful:  See also: MN 117; SN 3:5; AN 4:28; AN 4:128; AN 4:245; AN 5:75—76; AN 6:20; AN 10:17

...all of which can be found here:  https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html as well as @ https://www.accesstoinsight.org/index-sutta.html

Magnificent question, by the way.   :hug:

Thanks, Ron, but I've always found those kinds of references to be patently useless.  I can never keep the abreviations straight.  You might as well be posting in binary.

Offline Ron-the-Elder

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2018, 02:21:20 pm »
Thank you for the references, philboyd.

IdleChater:  I found these also helpful:  See also: MN 117; SN 3:5; AN 4:28; AN 4:128; AN 4:245; AN 5:75—76; AN 6:20; AN 10:17

...all of which can be found here:  https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html as well as @ https://www.accesstoinsight.org/index-sutta.html

Magnificent question, by the way.   :hug:

Thanks, Ron, but I've always found those kinds of references to be patently useless.  I can never keep the abreviations straight.  You might as well be posting in binary.

Sorry, Buddy.


If you go to either Access to Insight at the link provided and enter the book references in the search window, it will take you to the suttas.  The same for the other research website provided.


In the future I will send you the links so that you won't have to go through that process.
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

Offline Dairy Lama

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2018, 04:26:31 am »
As an alternative to ATI ( Access To Insight ) there is Sutta Central, which also has a discussion forum:  https://suttacentral.net/
"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream"

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2018, 10:30:16 pm »
View is how you see things.

Its Right Understanding. Right Understanding is understanding the Four Noble Truths. When the Four Noble Truths are understood, then as said in the 1st Sermon, craving is abandoned. This is how Right Understanding is practised, namely, abandoning craving. Its pretty easy & straighforward. You give up craving because you understand craving leads to suffering. Its like how you decide to not play with lions, tigers or bears because you know a lion, tiger or bear will tear you to shreds.

Seeing as the Buddha often described the practice he was teaching, what are the sutras that describe the practice as he taught it?

They are called "sutta" rather than "sutra". If you cannot abandon this habit of calling sutta "sutra" then there is probably little hope for you giving up more sticky forms of attachment & craving.

So for beginners - the 1st step is giving up Mahayana and its associated Hindu Sanskrit.

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2018, 10:33:32 pm »
As an alternative to ATI ( Access To Insight ) there is Sutta Central, which also has a discussion forum:  https://suttacentral.net/

Its a rebirth forum. Everything is translated as "rebirth". Such asava upadhi Eternalism won't help practise the Noble Eightfold Path.

Offline Dairy Lama

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2018, 01:32:32 am »
As an alternative to ATI ( Access To Insight ) there is Sutta Central, which also has a discussion forum:  https://suttacentral.net/

Its a rebirth forum. Everything is translated as "rebirth". Such asava upadhi Eternalism won't help practise the Noble Eightfold Path.

Nonsense!  I reckon this is just sour grapes because you were banned from Sutta Central, despite your attempt to return there as a sock puppet.

Anyway,  :focus:
"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream"

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2018, 02:07:41 pm »
Nonsense! 

Its all rebirth.  :wacky:

Quote
The rebirth, inception, conception, reincarnation, manifestation of the aggregates, and acquisition of the sense fields of the various sentient beings in the various orders of sentient beings.

Yā tesaṃ tesaṃ sattānaṃ tamhi tamhi sattanikāye jāti sañjāti okkanti abhinibbatti khandhānaṃ pātubhāvo āyatanānaṃ paṭilābho.

This is called rebirth.

Ayaṃ vuccati, bhikkhave, jāti.

https://suttacentral.net/sn12.2/en/sujato

Quote
Now this is the noble truth of the origin of suffering.

Idaṃ kho pana, bhikkhave, dukkhasamudayaṃ ariyasaccaṃ—

It’s the craving that leads to future rebirth, mixed up with relishing and greed, taking pleasure in various different realms. That is,

yāyaṃ taṇhā ponobbhavikā nandirāgasahagatā tatratatrābhinandinī, seyyathidaṃ—

craving for sensual pleasures, craving for continued existence, and craving to exterminate existence.

kāmataṇhā, bhavataṇhā, vibhavataṇhā.

https://suttacentral.net/sn56.11/en/sujato

Quote
They understand: ‘Rebirth is ended, the spiritual journey has been completed, what had to be done has been done, there is no return to any state of existence.’”

‘Khīṇā jāti, vusitaṃ brahmacariyaṃ, kataṃ karaṇīyaṃ, nāparaṃ itthattāyā’ti pajānātī”ti.

https://suttacentral.net/sn22.59/en/sujato

Quote
And what is right view that is accompanied by defilements, has the attributes of good deeds, and ripens in attachment?

Katamā ca, bhikkhave, sammādiṭṭhi sāsavā puññabhāgiyā upadhivepakkā?

‘There is meaning in giving, sacrifice, and offerings. There are fruits and results of good and bad deeds. There is an afterlife. There are duties to mother and father. There are beings reborn spontaneously. And there are ascetics and brahmins who are well attained and practiced, and who describe the afterlife after realizing it with their own insight.’

‘Atthi dinnaṃ, atthi yiṭṭhaṃ, atthi hutaṃ, atthi sukatadukkaṭānaṃ kammānaṃ phalaṃ vipāko, atthi ayaṃ loko, atthi paro loko, atthi mātā, atthi pitā, atthi sattā opapātikā, atthi loke samaṇabrāhmaṇā sammaggatā sammāpaṭipannā ye imañca lokaṃ parañca lokaṃ sayaṃ abhiññā sacchikatvā pavedentī’ti—

https://suttacentral.net/mn117/en/sujato





Offline Dairy Lama

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2018, 01:26:33 am »
Nonsense! 

Its all rebirth.  :wacky:

Again this is sour grapes.  You just don't like sutta translations which contradict your own interpretation ( though of course many of them do! ). 

 :focus:
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 01:41:09 am by Dairy Lama »
"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream"

Offline zafrogzen

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2018, 05:48:38 am »
Quote
They are called "sutta" rather than "sutra". If you cannot abandon this habit of calling sutta "sutra" then there is probably little hope for you giving up more sticky forms of attachment & craving.

So for beginners - the 1st step is giving up Mahayana and its associated Hindu Sanskrit.

I'm reminded of Thanissaro's sectarian attacks on Mahayana. Non-attachment?
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 06:08:37 am by zafrogzen »
My first formal meditation training was with Shunryu Suzuki in the 60's and later with Kobun, Robert Aitken and many other teachers (mainly zen). However, I've spent the most time practicing on my own, which is all I do now. I'm living in a rather isolated area so I miss connecting with other practitioners. Despite my interest in zen I've made an effort to remain secular. You can visit my website at http://www.frogzen.com

Offline Chaz

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2018, 10:40:08 am »
Thank you for the references, philboyd.

IdleChater:  I found these also helpful:  See also: MN 117; SN 3:5; AN 4:28; AN 4:128; AN 4:245; AN 5:75—76; AN 6:20; AN 10:17

...all of which can be found here:  https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html as well as @ https://www.accesstoinsight.org/index-sutta.html

Magnificent question, by the way.   :hug:

Thanks, Ron, but I've always found those kinds of references to be patently useless.  I can never keep the abreviations straight.  You might as well be posting in binary.

Sorry, Buddy.


If you go to either Access to Insight at the link provided and enter the book references in the search window, it will take you to the suttas.  The same for the other research website provided.


In the future I will send you the links so that you won't have to go through that process.

I appreciate your going back and adding some links.  Thanx!

I've been reading the Mahā Cattārīsaka Sutta you linked to.  It reminds me that I really HATE having to read most translations of the Pali.  They are really verbose and repetitive and it's hard to get to  I'm looking for before my eyes roll back into my head.

But I soldier on.

I think this document will have at least some of my answers. Provided I don't gouge out my own eyes first. :lmfao:

Thanks again.

Offline Chaz

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2018, 11:46:11 am »
And what is up with "effluents"  as in:

Quote
And what is the right livelihood with effluents....


I thought I knew what the word "effluents" meant, but it didn't seem to make sense in this context.  So, I looked up the definition.  I was right.

Effluents is like....sewage.   Right livelihood with.....sewage.

How does that square with right ________?  Sewage in this context could be the means of disposing of ...... shit ..... as a metaphor, but I dunno.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 11:50:22 am by IdleChater »

Offline Ron-the-Elder

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2018, 12:46:35 pm »
And what is up with "effluents"  as in:

Quote
And what is the right livelihood with effluents....


Having spent over thirty years in the field of environmental safety and health, my working definition of effluents was / is about the same as yours.  However, not all effluents are as noxious as the one you chose. 

In chemistry effluent can be thought of as the same thing as a variety of solvents.  For example water is a solvent for many solutes (things that are dissolved in water).  Examples:  salts, sugars, dyes, all sorts of things that you put into soups, and etc.  So, I guess the best way to look at it is "things that dissolve" in water.

https://nortonsafe.search.ask.com/search?chn=scmpn1&cmpgn=&ctype=pictures&doi=2018-5-11&geo=&guid=3b1a6c74-dd05-4203-e3c3-e13bfb635c6a&o=APN12174&p2=%5EEQ%5Ecd00us%5E&page=1&prt=norton+security+suite&q=pictures+of+things+that+dissolve+in+water.&tpr=10&ver=2.8.0.53

Then there are suspensions, which do not necessarily dissolve, but are suspended in fluids, such as milk fats that eventually separate out, which is why cream rises to the top. Parts of a suspension separate due to differences in density and variations in molecular attractions between solvents and solutes.

https://phys.org/news/2013-12-colloidal-suspensions-microspheres-liquid-simple.html

Then there are colloidal suspension, whereby fine solids are suspended in fluids, but which eventually precipitate out  (sink to the bottom) fine solids forming a layer at the bottom of a vial of water, such as silt, which precipitates from water collected from a stream or a pond.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility_chart

So, what do you make of that?

In solution chemistry we often remind ourselves of the fact that "Like dissolves like!", which explains why polar compounds such as water easily dissolve alcohols, diols, and glycols,

https://www2.chemistry.msu.edu/faculty/reusch/virttxtjml/chapt2.htm

.... while linear vegetable oils easily dissolve other vegetable oils and motor oils easily are dissolved in gasoline and kerosene, which are all straight chain hydrocarbons.

http://www.ivyroses.com/Chemistry/Organic/How-to-draw-skeletal-formulae-of-organic-molecules.php



Does that clear it up for you?  If so, let me know, because I still have no idea how that works with right livelihood either.  Perhaps someone wiser than the both of us could chime in and explain it to us?   :help:


« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 01:05:44 pm by Ron-the-Elder »
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

 


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