Author Topic: Practicing the Eightfold Path  (Read 4105 times)

Offline Dairy Lama

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2018, 01:27:55 am »
What then is the practice?  The best I can come up with is my meditation practice.  It worked for the Buddha.

There is a 3-fold version of the 8-fold path, which is morality, meditation and wisdom.  Meditation is usually described in terms of samatha ( calm ) and vipassana ( insight ).

Yes, although following calm, you can use mindfulness in meditation (and in everyday life) to help develop morality and wisdom

Yes, mindfulness is a key component of the path.  I work with the four frames of satipatthana regularly, this basically involves paying attention to different aspects of experience, trying to really notice how and why things happen.  My most productive times are off the cushion rather than on it.
"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream"

Offline Dairy Lama

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2018, 01:29:17 am »
What then is the practice?  The best I can come up with is my meditation practice.  It worked for the Buddha.

There is a 3-fold version of the 8-fold path, which is morality, meditation and wisdom.  Meditation is usually described in terms of samatha ( calm ) and vipassana ( insight ).

Yes, although following calm, you can use mindfulness in meditation (and in everyday life) to help develop morality and wisdom

Or you can meditate and let the fruit of that practice manifest as the Path

You can, but IMO practice is best approached as something you do all the time, rather than just when you're sitting on a cushion.
"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream"

Offline stillpointdancer

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2018, 02:21:24 am »
One of my main interests is looking at meditation as part of our basic human nature, something we have been able to do since the first people evolved, maybe before Homo Sapiens. The only difference with Buddhist meditation is context and how it relates to everyday life.
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

Offline Chaz

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2018, 05:36:46 am »

You can, but IMO practice is best approached as something you do all the time, rather than just when you're sitting on a cushion.

Quite right, but ideally, meditation doesn't end with the gong, so to speak.

I've found that as time goes on, and my practice grows, the more in tune with the N8FP I become.  I don't make an active effort to attain "right" speech, but I do find that my speech is "righter" than it used to be.

Offline Zen44

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2019, 09:02:56 pm »
By trying, and persisting in keeping on trying.
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Offline paracelsus

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2019, 09:05:14 pm »
The idea of the path requiring three elements to progress i.e. Study, contemplation, and meditation hints at a combined approach. My efforts to follow the Nobel 8 Fold Path as a conscious "obeying of rules"or stipulations, didn't work so well, but the combination of the above 3 elements of practice which encourage a broadening of understanding which becomes embedded as the practice continues has meant that the Nobel Eightfold Path  becomes a part of life naturally, without the need to follow it specifically. In other words it is wisdom that puts us on the right track rather than a discipline holding in check the rampant forces of Mara.

 There is a story (I might've related here before) of the "Precepts Sect" who upon attending a large gathering of Zen monks made some great show of their "holiness" due to their keeping all the precepts, but were roundly castigated for their failings in needing so many rules to keep them in line. The relevant point being that fully rounded practice will accomplish the end whereas the simple following of precepts may leave one as self centred and arrogant as if one didn't.

Following the path means developing one's mind to fulfil the description of "the path" through wisdom.
It probably means a whole lot of other things as well but .....

 :twocents: :om:

Offline Zen44

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2019, 03:37:32 am »
The idea of the path requiring three elements to progress i.e. Study, contemplation, and meditation hints at a combined approach. My efforts to follow the Nobel 8 Fold Path as a conscious "obeying of rules"or stipulations, didn't work so well, but the combination of the above 3 elements of practice which encourage a broadening of understanding which becomes embedded as the practice continues has meant that the Nobel Eightfold Path  becomes a part of life naturally, without the need to follow it specifically. In other words it is wisdom that puts us on the right track rather than a discipline holding in check the rampant forces of Mara.

 There is a story (I might've related here before) of the "Precepts Sect" who upon attending a large gathering of Zen monks made some great show of their "holiness" due to their keeping all the precepts, but were roundly castigated for their failings in needing so many rules to keep them in line. The relevant point being that fully rounded practice will accomplish the end whereas the simple following of precepts may leave one as self centred and arrogant as if one didn't.

Following the path means developing one's mind to fulfil the description of "the path" through wisdom.
It probably means a whole lot of other things as well but .....

 :twocents: :om:


Neat and perfect comprehensive paragraph is good enough for me.
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Offline stevie

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2019, 10:49:02 pm »
How does one practice the Eightfold Path?  What is the scriptural basis for this practice?  Take the case of Right View for example.  View is how you see things.  Changing how you see things can be difficult, if not impossible for most people.  Seeing as the Buddha often described the practice he was teaching, what are the sutras that describe the practice as he taught it?

Dear  Dharma friends,

from my perspective the Maha-cattarisaka Sutta MN 117 may be taken as basic reference
1. because it makes clear that right view is the forerunner of right resolve, right speech, right  action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration which entail right knowledge and right release.
2. because it makes clear that right view may be of two kinds: with and without effluents.
3. because it makes clear that right view without effluents is trancendent.
4. because it makes clear that based on right view without effluents all the other path factors also are transcendent.

Now what is the meaning of 'transcendent'? The meaning of 'transcendent' is 'not belonging to this world'.

Thus the Eightfold Path may be practiced with effluents and without effluents. Practicing it with effluents is practicing it in a way the world may practice it and practicing it without effluents is practicing it in a way the world cannot know it because it is beyond the reach of the world.

 :anjali:
།བྷྲཱུཾ་བི་ཤྭ་བི་ཤུད་དྷེ།

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2019, 05:28:32 am »
Now what is the meaning of 'transcendent'? The meaning of 'transcendent' is 'not belonging to this world'.

Transcendent = lokuttara = above or beyond the world

Thus the Eightfold Path may be practiced with effluents and without effluents.

The path without effluents is the Noble Path. The other path is something introduced later so the ordinary Buddhist layperson could believe they were practising the path. But from the perspective of the original teachings, there was only the Noble Path.

Practicing it with effluents is practicing it in a way the world may practice it

No. The path with effluents is, in reality, a different path. It is only a moral path. MN 117 says this path "sides with merit".

and practicing it without effluents is practicing it in a way the world cannot know it because it is beyond the reach of the world.

The above statement sounds like "mana" or "conceit" and is not the practise of the Noble Path. It is worldly.

 :namaste:
« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 05:31:04 am by VisuddhiRaptor »

Offline stevie

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2019, 06:07:36 am »
Thus the Eightfold Path may be practiced with effluents and without effluents.

The path without effluents is the Noble Path. The other path is something introduced later so the ordinary Buddhist layperson could believe they were practising the path. But from the perspective of the original teachings, there was only the Noble Path.

Dear VisuddhiRaptor,

it is as you say: there is only one path. So even if "ordinary Buddhist layperson" are practicing the Eightfold Path with effluents they are actually practicing the Eightfold Path which is ultimately without effluents. How so? The Eightfold Path without effluents merely appears to practitioners according to their lineage.

Practicing it with effluents is practicing it in a way the world may practice it

No. The path with effluents is, in reality, a different path. It is only a moral path. MN 117 says this path "sides with merit".
As we agreed already above:  in reality there is only one path. Karmic visions however are different depending on lineage.

and practicing it without effluents is practicing it in a way the world cannot know it because it is beyond the reach of the world.

The above statement sounds like "mana" or "conceit" and is not the practise of the Noble Path. It is worldly. 
Since the Buddha taught the path to the world what path other than a worldly path could he teach? Even the Buddha could not teach the path without effluents. Why? Because he had to resort to worldly language to make himself understood. Therefore the world cannot know the path without effluents.
However as to practice there is worldly practice with effluents and non-worldly practice without effluents.
How can one attain the non-worldly practice without effluents when the Buddha could only teach the path with effluents? Simply through commencing with worldly practice with effluents. There is no other way to attain non-worldly practice without effluents.

 :dharma: :anjali:
།བྷྲཱུཾ་བི་ཤྭ་བི་ཤུད་དྷེ།

Offline Chaz

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2019, 01:18:55 pm »


The path without effluents is the Noble Path. The other path is something introduced later so the ordinary Buddhist layperson could believe they were practising the path.

How much later and who added it?  And please offer some supporting teaching on this.

The assertion that something was added so laypeople could "believe" they were practicing the N8FP (when perhaps they really weren't), kinda goes against teacher's I've heard on the subject.  So where you you get this.

Quote
and practicing it without effluents is practicing it in a way the world cannot know it because it is beyond the reach of the world.

The above statement sounds like "mana" or "conceit" and is not the practise of the Noble Path. It is worldly.

Are you calling Stevie "conceited"?  Kinda sounds like it.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 02:19:20 pm by Chaz »

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2019, 02:35:49 pm »

The assertion that something was added so laypeople could "believe" they were practicing the N8FP (when perhaps they really weren't), kinda goes against teacher's I've heard on the subject.  So where you you get this.


Which teachers? What have you heard about the subject?

Offline Chaz

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2019, 07:43:39 pm »
What have you heard about the subject?

Not that the path with effluents was a later addition.

As far as my teachers go, you made the assertion about later additions, it's up to you to support it, not me to defend my challenge.

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2019, 09:33:56 pm »
As far as my teachers go...

Which teachers?

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: Practicing the Eightfold Path
« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2019, 10:10:57 pm »
it is as you say: there is only one path. So even if "ordinary Buddhist layperson" are practicing the Eightfold Path with effluents they are actually practicing the Eightfold Path which is ultimately without effluents.

Thank you. However, I do not recall ever mentioning the above. Are you sure an Eightfold Path with effluents even exists?  :curtain:

 


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