Author Topic: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva  (Read 891 times)

Offline IdleChater

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2017, 04:39:37 am »
Imagining deities is taking one's focus away from practice in the here and now.

What you're supposed to do, in practice,  is visualize yourself as the deity.

Offline Pixie

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2017, 04:43:21 am »
Imagining deities is taking one's focus away from practice in the here and now.

What you're supposed to do, in practice,  is visualize yourself as the deity.

I already know that because I used to be a Vajrayana practitioner. However its also the case that people often believe the deities exist independently and pray and make offerings to them.

May all beings have happiness and the causes of happiness.
May they all be free from suffering and the causes of suffering.
May they never be deprived of true happiness devoid of any suffering.
May they abide in great impartiality, free from attachment to loved ones and aversion to others.

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2017, 05:08:53 am »
Imagining deities is taking one's focus away from practice in the here and now.

What you're supposed to do, in practice,  is visualize yourself as the deity.

I already know that because I used to be a Vajrayana practitioner. However its also the case that people often believe the deities exist independently and pray and make offerings to them.


"And because we have seen that mice eat our food, we encourage to keep cats and tread them well."

Aside of the fact that the Buddha praised to respect, venerate and give offerings to Devas and gods, pointing out the effects of being honered and respected, as well as protected where ever on goes by them in return.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2017, 05:44:52 am by Samana Johann »
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Offline IdleChater

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2017, 05:15:35 am »
Imagining deities is taking one's focus away from practice in the here and now.

What you're supposed to do, in practice,  is visualize yourself as the deity.

I already know that because I used to be a Vajrayana practitioner. However its also the case that people often believe the deities exist independently and pray and make offerings to them.

And that's what works for them.  There are right and wrong ways to do things and then there are ways people do them in real life.

Offline ground

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2017, 05:20:15 am »
Imagining deities is taking one's focus away from practice in the here and now.

So you have a meditation object called 'here and now' and that you focus?  :teehee:



Offline Pixie

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2017, 06:17:52 am »
Imagining deities is taking one's focus away from practice in the here and now.

So you have a meditation object called 'here and now' and that you focus?  :teehee:



How very amusing, "Tenzin".  :whistle:
May all beings have happiness and the causes of happiness.
May they all be free from suffering and the causes of suffering.
May they never be deprived of true happiness devoid of any suffering.
May they abide in great impartiality, free from attachment to loved ones and aversion to others.

Offline ground

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2017, 06:20:57 am »
Imagining deities is taking one's focus away from practice in the here and now.

So you have a meditation object called 'here and now' and that you focus?  :teehee:



How very amusing, "Tenzin".  :whistle:

Nice that you know one of my former names but what purpose does it serve when you focus on a meditation object called 'here and now'? Do you attain an absorption?  :teehee:

Offline Pixie

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2017, 06:49:18 am »

 what purpose does it serve when you focus on a meditation object called 'here and now'? Do you attain an absorption?  :teehee:


That's not what I actually said. ....and my personal practice is non of your mocking business.

Bye :hi:



 
« Last Edit: June 24, 2017, 06:57:08 am by Pixie »
May all beings have happiness and the causes of happiness.
May they all be free from suffering and the causes of suffering.
May they never be deprived of true happiness devoid of any suffering.
May they abide in great impartiality, free from attachment to loved ones and aversion to others.

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2017, 06:55:51 am »
Quote
May all beings have happiness and the causes of happiness.
May they all be free from suffering and the causes of suffering.
May they never be deprived of true happiness devoid of any suffering.
May they abide in great impartiality, free from attachment to loved ones and aversion to others.

What does impartiality here exactly mean? Here and now.
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Offline Solodris

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2017, 03:13:13 pm »
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« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 04:50:52 pm by Solodris »

Offline Solodris

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2017, 03:18:16 pm »
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« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 04:51:14 pm by Solodris »

Offline Solodris

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2017, 03:21:54 pm »
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« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 04:51:38 pm by Solodris »

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2017, 04:11:38 pm »
Solodris,

Quote
Lokayatika Sutta: The Cosmologist

Staying at Savatthi. Then a brahman cosmologist [1] went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, exchanged courteous greetings with him. After an exchange of friendly greetings & courtesies, he sat to one side. As he was sitting there, he said to the Blessed One, "Now, then, Master Gotama, does everything [2] exist?"

"'Everything exists' is the senior form of cosmology, brahman."

"Then, Master Gotama, does everything not exist?"

"'Everything does not exist' is the second form of cosmology, brahman."

"Then is everything a Oneness?"

"'Everything is a Oneness' is the third form of cosmology, brahman."

"Then is everything a Manyness?"

"'Everything is a Manyness' is the fourth form of cosmology, brahman. Avoiding these two extremes, the Tathagata teaches the Dhamma via the middle: From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications. From fabrications as a requisite condition comes consciousness. From consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form. From name-&-form as a requisite condition come the six sense media. From the six sense media as a requisite condition comes contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling. From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving. From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging/sustenance. From clinging/sustenance as a requisite condition comes becoming. From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth. From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. Such is the origination of this entire mass of stress & suffering.

"Now from the remainderless fading & cessation of that very ignorance comes the cessation of fabrications. From the cessation of fabrications comes the cessation of consciousness. From the cessation of consciousness comes the cessation of name-&-form. From the cessation of name-&-form comes the cessation of the six sense media. From the cessation of the six sense media comes the cessation of contact. From the cessation of contact comes the cessation of feeling. From the cessation of feeling comes the cessation of craving. From the cessation of craving comes the cessation of clinging/sustenance. From the cessation of clinging/sustenance comes the cessation of becoming. From the cessation of becoming comes the cessation of birth. From the cessation of birth, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair all cease. Such is the cessation of this entire mass of stress & suffering."

"Magnificent, Master Gotama! Magnificent! Just as if he were to place upright what was overturned, to reveal what was hidden, to show the way to one who was lost, or to carry a lamp into the dark so that those with eyes could see forms, in the same way has Master Gotama — through many lines of reasoning — made the Dhamma clear. I go to Master Gotama for refuge, to the Dhamma, and to the Sangha of monks. May Master Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone to him for refuge, from this day forward, for life."

Notes

1. The cosmologist (lokayata) schools of thought reasoned from what they saw as the basic principles of the physical cosmos in formulating their teachings on how life should be lived. In modern times, they would correspond to those who base their philosophies on principles drawn from the physical sciences, such as evolutionary biology or quantum physics. Although the cosmologists of India in the Buddha's time differed on first principles, they tended to be more unanimous in using their first principles — whatever they were — to argue for hedonism as the best approach to life.
2. "Everything" may also be translated as "the All." Concerning this term, SN 35.23 says, "What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This is termed the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his assertion, would be unable to explain, and furthermore would be put to grief. Why is that? Because it lies beyond range." For more on this topic, see The Mind Like Fire Unbound, Chapter 1.
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Offline Rahul

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2017, 04:08:33 am »

The promises of worldly blessing are a upaya or skillful device for inducing us to recite the name of Avalokitesvara and contemplate on her loving-kindness and compassion, so that we may ultimately manifest these qualities in our own lives. It was never really about material blessings in the first place.



Why not teach the truth to people that there is no divine god that will confer special blessings on them? Why not tell them the truth that no god will be pleased by recitation of his/her name?  Do you think that people are unable to understand or accept such truth in modern age? Why indulge in promoting wrong view that recitation of a god gives material blessings?


At the highest level of recitation practice, one chants “Namo Guanshiyin Pusa” to awaken the Bodhisattva within, to gain the strength and fearlessness for one’s own Bodhisattva path. As it says in the Lotus Sutra, Avalokitesvara is the “bestower of fearlessness.”

The Lotus Sutra also promises that our inner demons of lust, greed, anger, and ignorance can be subdued through reciting the name of Avalokitesvara. 



Fearlessness comes from understanding of concepts such as 'anataa'. Greed, lust, anger can be subdued by gaining knowledge, by understanding concepts such as 'emptiness' and 'impermanence'. Anger can be subdued by daily practice of loving kindness meditation. It is utterly misguiding to promote the idea that 'reciting xyz's name will lead to fearlessness and subdue anger greed' etc.

For example, to learn kung fu: do you advise worshiping a kung fu master/god and reciting his/her name continuously? Or do you advise studying and practicing it?

Why then do you advise reciting name of a god to gain fearlessness and subdue lust, greed, anger?

Let us stop from promoting wrong views and practices. Let us insist on learning and practice. Learning and Practice. Not recitation of name of a divine being.


Why do you care to persuade others to live in your reality, Rahul?

This is a buddhist forum, there are countless buddhist traditions and some of them have worship of deities.

If you appeal to truth then you also have to accept the truth is that there are people that derive benefit from deity worship. Considering how the figure of the buddha is regarded in nearly all buddhist traditions nearly all buddhist traditions practice a kind of deity worship.

That should not be a concern even if you think I am trying to persuade someone. Everyone here is mature enough, at least that's what I think. So I post my ideas, and I think some of them will read and understand. Others may understand later. Some may not. And that's perfectly fine. I am not here to change the world.

As you mentioned, all Buddhist traditions more or less indulge in some sort of deity worshiping. And that's real pity.

Worshiping may give some solace, but it's a false solace. It may give the feeling of strength, but that's wrong feeling. The strength or solace comes from one's own inner depths. No deity ever gives any solace or strength. Pointing this out, and inspiring people to explore their inner depths and rely on their own is much more sustainable, practical, and right way. Promoting deity-worship or favoring deity-worship is favoring a false promise. But you may choose to continue with pro-deity-worship ideas. Everyone has freedom to believe in their own ideas.

There was a reason why the Buddha said:
Quote
Monks, be islands unto yourselves, be your own refuge, having no other;...

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.043.wlsh.html


Offline ground

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2017, 04:58:34 am »
...
Worshiping may give some solace, but it's a false solace. It may give the feeling of strength, but that's wrong feeling. The strength or solace comes from one's own inner depths. No deity ever gives any solace or strength. Pointing this out, and inspiring people to explore their inner depths and rely on their own is much more sustainable, practical, and right way. Promoting deity-worship or favoring deity-worship is favoring a false promise. But you may choose to continue with pro-deity-worship ideas. Everyone has freedom to believe in their own ideas.

There was a reason why the Buddha said:
Quote
Monks, be islands unto yourselves, be your own refuge, having no other;...

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.043.wlsh.html


Well said, but what feeling is right and what feeling is wrong? Feeling is just feeling.

As to the inner depth and being an island unto oneself, worshipping is also a feature that emerges from inner depth. And worshipping a deity although knowing that the deity does not exist but deriving benefit from this worship nevertheless isn't this an astonishing  feature of inner depth all the more?

 


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