Author Topic: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva  (Read 935 times)

Offline Rahul

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2017, 03:21:16 am »

Well said, but what feeling is right and what feeling is wrong? Feeling is just feeling.


'Right' means if a method is aligned with the purpose, will help achieve the purpose. 'Wrong' means it is not aligned with the purpose. We all know this definition very well.

Worshiping deity with the hope of any material or spiritual help... doesn't serve the purpose: gaining material benefits or spiritual advances. It just reinforces a malpractice: relying on someone/something to gain material or spiritual advances.


As to the inner depth and being an island unto oneself, worshipping is also a feature that emerges from inner depth. And worshipping a deity although knowing that the deity does not exist but deriving benefit from this worship nevertheless isn't this an astonishing  feature of inner depth all the more?

No! It's just a deceptive, evasive behavior of the mind.

Offline ground

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2017, 04:06:50 am »
No! It's just a deceptive, evasive behavior of the mind.
Depends.

Offline Rahul

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2017, 04:13:29 am »
No! It's just a deceptive, evasive behavior of the mind.
Depends.

As I said earlier, Ground, everyone is free to resort to whatever means they think help them irrespective of whether those means actually help them.

Offline ground

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2017, 08:40:03 pm »
No! It's just a deceptive, evasive behavior of the mind.
Depends.

As I said earlier, Ground, everyone is free to resort to whatever means they think help them irrespective of whether those means actually help them.

I do not think that anyone would resort to something that does not actually help them. What helps people does not depend on your view about what should help them. As to what helps themselves everybody knows better than everybody else.

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2017, 04:44:44 am »
No! It's just a deceptive, evasive behavior of the mind.

Depends.


As I said earlier, Ground, everyone is free to resort to whatever means they think help them irrespective of whether those means actually help them.


I do not think that anyone would resort to something that does not actually help them. What helps people does not depend on your view about what should help them. As to what helps themselves everybody knows better than everybody else.


Postmodern cretinism.
For sure Ground believes if many people tried to help him against his grain, he would even came to be able to walk and speak...

When one objects the gain of what defilements desire for help then one really has entered the state on animals, but even those, althought no lastig gratitude, benefit some days or month of certain tread. Yet this is just in regard of how to gain becoming and sensual satisfaction.

How dare must one be to give such a statement. Now even living in a surrounding that cares of everything to be pleasant and nice, with even consumer protecting authorities.

Now what does "actually help" mean? Believing stuff? To gain a skill by accident? "Deg jum" (sleep further and wait while sleeping) or like a german saying "god gives the fool while sleeping"

Gilana Sutta: Sick People

Quote
A prerequisite for Awakening

"If wanderers who are members of other sects should ask you, 'What, friend, are the prerequisites for the development of the wings to self-awakening?' you should answer, 'There is the case where a monk has admirable people as friends, companions, & colleagues. This is the first prerequisite for the development of the wings to self-awakening.'"

AN 9.1
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 05:29:10 am by Samana Johann »
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Offline ground

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2017, 02:36:55 am »
No! It's just a deceptive, evasive behavior of the mind.
Depends.

As I said earlier, Ground, everyone is free to resort to whatever means they think help them irrespective of whether those means actually help them.

I do not think that anyone would resort to something that does not actually help them. What helps people does not depend on your view about what should help them. As to what helps themselves everybody knows better than everybody else.

Postmodern cretinism.
For sure Ground believes if many people tried to help him against his grain, he would even came to be able to walk and speak...
'grain? sure you picked the right word? your sentence does not evoke a consistent meaning.

Please let me make clear what I posit with my statement:
I do posit an inner intelligence in every individual which necessarily guides this individual to take the right decisions. Therefore every individual necessarily knows better than everybody else what is good for him/her. There is however a connotation of 'know' here which deviates from the conventional meaning of 'knowing something'. 'individual' here should be understood as an open non-personal system of conscious being which controls itself via feedback control circuits.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 02:42:48 am by ground »

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2017, 07:19:50 am »


No! It's just a deceptive, evasive behavior of the mind.

Depends.


As I said earlier, Ground, everyone is free to resort to whatever means they think help them irrespective of whether those means actually help them.


I do not think that anyone would resort to something that does not actually help them. What helps people does not depend on your view about what should help them. As to what helps themselves everybody knows better than everybody else.


Postmodern cretinism.
For sure Ground believes if many people tried to help him against his grain, he would even came to be able to walk and speak...

'grain? sure you picked the right word? your sentence does not evoke a consistent meaning.

Please let me make clear what I posit with my statement:
I do posit an inner intelligence in every individual which necessarily guides this individual to take the right decisions. Therefore every individual necessarily knows better than everybody else what is good for him/her. There is however a connotation of 'know' here which deviates from the conventional meaning of 'knowing something'. 'individual' here should be understood as an open non-personal system of conscious being which controls itself via feedback control circuits.

A typical appearances of those liking to philosophying there world is that they need a lot a new constructed material to keep there absurd buildings alive.
That is why especially post-humanist are generally as "worthless" recogniced by the wise and beloved by "believers".

But that all is surely to far from the topic already and Atma has seen that Ground opened a "Groundless-Foundation-Explaining" topic already.
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Offline ground

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2017, 07:30:33 am »


No! It's just a deceptive, evasive behavior of the mind.

Depends.


As I said earlier, Ground, everyone is free to resort to whatever means they think help them irrespective of whether those means actually help them.


I do not think that anyone would resort to something that does not actually help them. What helps people does not depend on your view about what should help them. As to what helps themselves everybody knows better than everybody else.


Postmodern cretinism.
For sure Ground believes if many people tried to help him against his grain, he would even came to be able to walk and speak...

'grain? sure you picked the right word? your sentence does not evoke a consistent meaning.

Please let me make clear what I posit with my statement:
I do posit an inner intelligence in every individual which necessarily guides this individual to take the right decisions. Therefore every individual necessarily knows better than everybody else what is good for him/her. There is however a connotation of 'know' here which deviates from the conventional meaning of 'knowing something'. 'individual' here should be understood as an open non-personal system of conscious being which controls itself via feedback control circuits.

A typical appearances of those liking to philosophying there world is that they need a lot a new constructed material to keep there absurd buildings alive.
That is why especially post-humanist are generally as "worthless" recogniced by the wise and beloved by "believers".

But that all is surely to far from the topic already and Atma has seen that Ground opened a "Groundless-Foundation-Explaining" topic already.

Buddhism is a  lot of constructed material, I agree. Nevertheless some of its constructs are quite interesting. Without linguistic constructs how would one ever get to know reality? It would be impossible.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 07:36:07 am by ground »

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2017, 08:20:49 am »


No! It's just a deceptive, evasive behavior of the mind.

Depends.


As I said earlier, Ground, everyone is free to resort to whatever means they think help them irrespective of whether those means actually help them.


I do not think that anyone would resort to something that does not actually help them. What helps people does not depend on your view about what should help them. As to what helps themselves everybody knows better than everybody else.


Postmodern cretinism.
For sure Ground believes if many people tried to help him against his grain, he would even came to be able to walk and speak...

'grain? sure you picked the right word? your sentence does not evoke a consistent meaning.

Please let me make clear what I posit with my statement:
I do posit an inner intelligence in every individual which necessarily guides this individual to take the right decisions. Therefore every individual necessarily knows better than everybody else what is good for him/her. There is however a connotation of 'know' here which deviates from the conventional meaning of 'knowing something'. 'individual' here should be understood as an open non-personal system of conscious being which controls itself via feedback control circuits.

A typical appearances of those liking to philosophying there world is that they need a lot a new constructed material to keep there absurd buildings alive.
That is why especially post-humanist are generally as "worthless" recogniced by the wise and beloved by "believers".

But that all is surely to far from the topic already and Atma has seen that Ground opened a "Groundless-Foundation-Explaining" topic already.

Buddhism is a  lot of constructed material, I agree. Nevertheless some of its constructs are quite interesting. Without linguistic constructs how would one ever get to know reality? It would be impossible.

No comment on Buddhism... In regard of Dhamma-Vinaya, it's not a lot, but constucted. The special thing by this constracted Path is, that it leads out of conditioned. So it's nonsense to provoke a believe that the path contains anywhere not constructed. If defilements are provoked in such a way, one might end up to have wasted his time ending up next the lane, given up an auspicious life for playing around with ones own ideas and lying to one self. There is an outwardly condition, to start to follow the path and if blessed even among the path till the end. People who help to see one gross and fine defilements. And all of this is a matter of saddha (faith). There is no constructing left when done, aside to the use of others. There is endless constructing for those having no saddha (faith) but believing their defilements on another of off-lane. Even they walk built it under as being "Such" or "boundless Compassion" to construct their foundation, Ground, Nissaya, they actually left or never had.

Interest aside of the path, leading to the abounding of all interests, is normal for one not firm, but a strong hindrence, again only to abound by Saddha (faith).
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Offline ground

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2017, 09:36:28 am »


No! It's just a deceptive, evasive behavior of the mind.

Depends.


As I said earlier, Ground, everyone is free to resort to whatever means they think help them irrespective of whether those means actually help them.


I do not think that anyone would resort to something that does not actually help them. What helps people does not depend on your view about what should help them. As to what helps themselves everybody knows better than everybody else.


Postmodern cretinism.
For sure Ground believes if many people tried to help him against his grain, he would even came to be able to walk and speak...

'grain? sure you picked the right word? your sentence does not evoke a consistent meaning.

Please let me make clear what I posit with my statement:
I do posit an inner intelligence in every individual which necessarily guides this individual to take the right decisions. Therefore every individual necessarily knows better than everybody else what is good for him/her. There is however a connotation of 'know' here which deviates from the conventional meaning of 'knowing something'. 'individual' here should be understood as an open non-personal system of conscious being which controls itself via feedback control circuits.

A typical appearances of those liking to philosophying there world is that they need a lot a new constructed material to keep there absurd buildings alive.
That is why especially post-humanist are generally as "worthless" recogniced by the wise and beloved by "believers".

But that all is surely to far from the topic already and Atma has seen that Ground opened a "Groundless-Foundation-Explaining" topic already.

Buddhism is a  lot of constructed material, I agree. Nevertheless some of its constructs are quite interesting. Without linguistic constructs how would one ever get to know reality? It would be impossible.

No comment on Buddhism... In regard of Dhamma-Vinaya, it's not a lot, but constucted. The special thing by this constracted Path is, that it leads out of conditioned. So it's nonsense to provoke a believe that the path contains anywhere not constructed. If defilements are provoked in such a way, one might end up to have wasted his time ending up next the lane, given up an auspicious life for playing around with ones own ideas and lying to one self. There is an outwardly condition, to start to follow the path and if blessed even among the path till the end. People who help to see one gross and fine defilements. And all of this is a matter of saddha (faith). There is no constructing left when done, aside to the use of others. There is endless constructing for those having no saddha (faith) but believing their defilements on another of off-lane. Even they walk built it under as being "Such" or "boundless Compassion" to construct their foundation, Ground, Nissaya, they actually left or never had.

Interest aside of the path, leading to the abounding of all interests, is normal for one not firm, but a strong hindrence, again only to abound by Saddha (faith).

your talk is so much about faith but if I replaced my imperturbable certainty by faith this would amount to a backfall. There is no turning back. Intelligence is here. There is nothing to do.

Offline IdleChater

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2017, 03:08:11 pm »
your talk is so much about faith but if I replaced my imperturbable certainty by faith this would amount to a backfall. There is no turning back. Intelligence is here. There is nothing to do.

Well, I'd wager that you excercise a lot more faith than you'd admit to and I suspect that you are blissfully unaware of the role faith plays in your life.  So, check the hubris at the door next time.

And there's nothing inherently wrong with faith.  In fact I say that a person lacking faith is a poor one indeed.

Offline ground

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2017, 09:53:50 pm »
your talk is so much about faith but if I replaced my imperturbable certainty by faith this would amount to a backfall. There is no turning back. Intelligence is here. There is nothing to do.

Well, I'd wager that you excercise a lot more faith than you'd admit to and I suspect that you are blissfully unaware of the role faith plays in your life.  So, check the hubris at the door next time.

And there's nothing inherently wrong with faith.  In fact I say that a person lacking faith is a poor one indeed.
As I see it faith has an object ... 'to have faith in sth.' ... which is why faith cannot compete with certainty which  - at least in the way I use the word 'certainty' - has no object.
Something that depends on an object is unreliable because an object arises and ceases, must be brought to mind, and thus is impermanent.

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #42 on: July 01, 2017, 06:42:42 am »
your talk is so much about faith but if I replaced my imperturbable certainty by faith this would amount to a backfall. There is no turning back. Intelligence is here. There is nothing to do.

Well, I'd wager that you excercise a lot more faith than you'd admit to and I suspect that you are blissfully unaware of the role faith plays in your life.  So, check the hubris at the door next time.

And there's nothing inherently wrong with faith.  In fact I say that a person lacking faith is a poor one indeed.
As I see it faith has an object ... 'to have faith in sth.' ... which is why faith cannot compete with certainty which  - at least in the way I use the word 'certainty' - has no object.
Something that depends on an object is unreliable because an object arises and ceases, must be brought to mind, and thus is impermanent.
"God gave clearency while sleeping"
Althought pulled by "intelligence" around, talking about 'certainty' is also somehow strange. But what ever likes to believe designs ones destiny.
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Offline ground

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #43 on: July 01, 2017, 08:53:57 pm »
your talk is so much about faith but if I replaced my imperturbable certainty by faith this would amount to a backfall. There is no turning back. Intelligence is here. There is nothing to do.

Well, I'd wager that you excercise a lot more faith than you'd admit to and I suspect that you are blissfully unaware of the role faith plays in your life.  So, check the hubris at the door next time.

And there's nothing inherently wrong with faith.  In fact I say that a person lacking faith is a poor one indeed.
As I see it faith has an object ... 'to have faith in sth.' ... which is why faith cannot compete with certainty which  - at least in the way I use the word 'certainty' - has no object.
Something that depends on an object is unreliable because an object arises and ceases, must be brought to mind, and thus is impermanent.
"God gave clearency while sleeping"
Althought pulled by "intelligence" around, talking about 'certainty' is also somehow strange. But what ever likes to believe designs ones destiny.
This certainty is empty of self and other. Therefore it is not impermanent.

Offline The Artis Magistra

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Re: Reciting the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
« Reply #44 on: July 15, 2017, 01:37:25 am »
I do not relish seeing disputation like this.

Lets deal with some "facts".

What is "real" is generally considered to be whatever exists in some sense, is apparent or known in some way, however it may be.

Guan Yin or whatever you are talking about does exist as many things in many forms apparent to all.

You are arguing about whether such and such is "really real". I would say as real as you are, as "really real" as you are.

So what is there to argue about considering this?

We all see it, we all know of it, it is right there, it exists. Denying "in what way it is really real" is just going in mad circles about nothing.

It is there. Benefit from it how you may, or disregard it as you might disregard water or a free hug.

Now in judging this debate, I deem the best of all the one who says or agrees to this:

"Guan Yin is real, Guan Yin is really real, Guan Yin is as real as you are real, Guan Yin is as real as I am real. There is nothing more real than Guan Yin. There is nothing less real than Guan Yin."

In realizing the realness or unrealness of Guan Yin, there is a treasure, of knowing Guan Yin as well as you know anyone, yourself, or anything at all.

Consider what else is real, really real, and how you are not different from what is real, really real.

Guan Yin is not a particular statue somewhere. Guan Yin does exist, or else we would not be discussing Guan Yin at all.

 


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