Author Topic: Sentience & Insentience  (Read 347 times)

Offline CedarTree

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Sentience & Insentience
« on: September 01, 2017, 02:40:36 pm »
This discussion is open to all Mahayana, Vajrayana, Theravada, Other Religious Frameworks, and Your Own Unique Perspectives.

This is also a topic that has been arising lately in different forms and so I can imagine this will be a great discussion :anjali:

I had an experience a few days ago that I will most likely bring up with Shoryu Bradley (A Zen Teacher I Respect) and possibly some other authorities on the subject.

I was at the lake and if I remember correctly had been doing some Zazen in the forest in between quiet swimming and just enjoying the solitude and peaceful/restful nature of the area.

I am not sure what was going on at the moment but in a flash the need to hold onto "Awareness" & "Life" in any form kind of dropped off.

I came to understand that Sentience & Insentience kind of drop off in Emptiness.

Feel free to share all your views, sutras, tantras, quotes, whatever.

In general I would love to see how this develops.

Offline ground

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Re: Sentience & Insentience
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2017, 03:07:36 pm »
I had an experience a few days ago that I will most likely bring up with Shoryu Bradley (A Zen Teacher I Respect) and possibly some other authorities on the subject.
That's your issue. It is your individual issue. Nobody else has that issue. you are alone.

Offline IdleChater

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Re: Sentience & Insentience
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2017, 03:45:03 pm »
I had an experience a few days ago that I will most likely bring up with Shoryu Bradley (A Zen Teacher I Respect) and possibly some other authorities on the subject.
That's your issue. It is your individual issue. Nobody else has that issue. you are alone.

Ground, you are such a Buzzkill.  Seriously.

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Sentience & Insentience
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2017, 12:26:32 am »
Sharing and giving is ones issue, and sharing merits as well. Poor those who are not able to take part, poor those who seen no benefit in sympatic joy. It's your/ones issue alone if letting good mindstates be killed. And meeting benefical-joy-killer is also ones issue from the past. So what to do now? Mudita or issa? Your choice is yours, as well the assosiation you take and tend to.
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Offline CedarTree

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Re: Sentience & Insentience
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2017, 09:34:56 am »
I had an experience a few days ago that I will most likely bring up with Shoryu Bradley (A Zen Teacher I Respect) and possibly some other authorities on the subject.
That's your issue. It is your individual issue. Nobody else has that issue. you are alone.


Thank you for the existential crisis! Lol

In all seriousness your answer is valid but standard one side of the coin style.

It's nice on a discussion forum to really probe and draw out content and develop understanding :)

Offline ground

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Re: Sentience & Insentience
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2017, 08:28:57 pm »
I had an experience a few days ago that I will most likely bring up with Shoryu Bradley (A Zen Teacher I Respect) and possibly some other authorities on the subject.
That's your issue. It is your individual issue. Nobody else has that issue. you are alone.


Thank you for the existential crisis! Lol

In all seriousness your answer is valid but standard one side of the coin style.

Maybe you didn't get the thrust. your issue is the fabricated frame of reference of authorities. your fabricated dependence. But you are independent and alone. Nobody can replace your valid knowledge. Forget authorities and so called 'teachers'. you already know better than everybody else. your view as to 'teachers' is conditioned. It is the result of a kind of brainwashing.

Now if you think that I want to persuade you to change your view then you're wrong. Why? Since even having wrong view is a manifestation of knowing better than everybody else. Why is this? Because validly knowing is empty of self. Emptiness of self is present from the outset.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 08:40:10 pm by ground »

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: Sentience & Insentience
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2017, 09:08:35 pm »
My person had to reflect on the topics joyful cause and how such events accure and there came a clear answer: deptlessness

Thought to write about it, or record some words. Now seeing Grounds post, that dreams its happending.

One needs strong dept, strong attachment to what is or tends to deptlessness, e.g. the tripple gems "personalized", Sangha, teacher admirable friend.

In regard of the authority discussion here, it means that it is nessesary to impove ones choice of contract and legaly chance it, once seen that the autority isn't or doesn't tend to deptlessness. Such latest happen when equal to your contractor and able to look for your self, if honest, if deptlessness is reached.

Althought meta in regard of the OP, it might help in regard of current astray reasons:

Quote
The Story of Thera Pilotikatissa  

While residing at the Jetavana monastery, the Buddha uttered Verses (143) and (144) of this book, with reference to Thera Pilotikatissa.

Once, Thera Ananda saw a shabbily dressed youth going round begging for food; he felt pity for the youth and made him a samanera. The young samanera left his old clothes and his begging plate on the fork of a tree. When he became a bhikkhu he was known as Pilotikatissa. As a bhikkhu, he did not have to worry about food and clothing as he was in affluent circumstances. Yet, sometimes he did not feel happy in his life as a bhikkhu and thought of going back to the life of a lay man. Whenever he had this feeling, he would go back to that tree where he had left his old clothes and his plate. There, at the foot of the tree, he would put this question to himself, "Oh shameless one! Do you want to leave the place where you are fed well and dressed well? Do you still want to put on these shabby clothes and go begging again with this old plate in your hand?" Thus, he would rebuke himself, and after calming down, he would go back to the monastery.

After two or three days, again, he felt like leaving the monastic life of a bhikkhu, and again, he went to the tree where he kept his old clothes and his plate. After asking himself the same old question and having been reminded of the wretchedness of his old life, he returned to the monastery. This was repeated many times. When other bhikkhus asked him why he often went to the tree where he kept his old clothes and his plate, he told them that he went to see his teacher [4]. Thus keeping his mind on his old clothes as the subject of meditation, he came to realize the true nature of the aggregates of the khandhas (i.e., anicca, dukkha, anatta), and eventually he became an arahat. Then, he stopped going to the tree. Other bhikkhus noticing that Pilotikatissa had stopped going to the tree where he kept his old clothes and his plate asked him, "Why don't you go to your teacher any more?" To them, he answered, "When I had the need, I had to go to him; but there is no need for me to go to him now." When the bhikkhus heard his reply, they took him to see the Buddha. When they came to his presence they said, "Venerable Sir! This bhikkhu claims that he has attained arahatship; he must be telling lies." But the Buddha refuted them, and said, "Bhikkhus! Pilotikatissa is not telling lies, he speaks the truth. Though he had relationship with his teacher previously, now he has no relationship whatsoever with his teacher. Thera Pilotikatissa has instructed himself to differentiate right and wrong causes and to discern the true nature of things. He has now become an arahat, and so there is no further connection between him and his teacher."

Then the Buddha spoke in verse as follows:

Verse 143 Rare in this world is the kind of person who out of a sense of shame restrains from doing evil and keeps himself awake like a good horse that gives no cause to be whipped.

Verse 144: Like a good horse stirred at a touch of the whip, be diligent and get alarmed by endless round of rebirths (i.e., samsara). By faith, morality, effort, concentration, discernment of the Dhamma, be endowed with knowledge and practice of morality, and with mindfulness, leave this immeasurable dukkha (of samsara) behind.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 09:50:21 pm by Samana Johann »
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Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: Sentience & Insentience
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2017, 08:42:40 pm »
Ground, you are such a Buzzkill.  Seriously

 :teehee:

Offline Spiny Norman

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Re: Sentience & Insentience
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2017, 04:44:39 am »
I came to understand that Sentience & Insentience kind of drop off in Emptiness.

Feel free to share all your views, sutras, tantras, quotes, whatever.

I came across this quote from the Dalai Lama recently:

"It is clear that the mind exists, but since it is not established as it's own final nature and basic disposition, what is it's mode of being? It's deep nature is a mere emptiness of it's own inherent existence. This means that the faulty defilements that pollute the mind - such as ignorance, lust and hatred - are temporary, and therefore separable from the mind. Once these defilements are understood to be superficial and not in the mind's basic nature, we see that the deep nature of the mind is clear light, emptiness."

( from "How to Practice, page 172 )

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: Sentience & Insentience
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2017, 01:28:49 pm »
...the faulty defilements that pollute the mind - such as ignorance, lust and hatred - are temporary, and therefore separable from the mind. Once these defilements are understood to be superficial and not in the mind's basic nature, we see that the deep nature of the mind is clear light, emptiness.


This is in the Pali suttas: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an01/an01.049.than.html


Offline ground

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Re: Sentience & Insentience
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2017, 09:53:35 pm »
I came to understand that Sentience & Insentience kind of drop off in Emptiness.

Feel free to share all your views, sutras, tantras, quotes, whatever.

I came across this quote from the Dalai Lama recently:

"It is clear that the mind exists, but since it is not established as it's own final nature and basic disposition, what is it's mode of being? It's deep nature is a mere emptiness of it's own inherent existence. This means that the faulty defilements that pollute the mind - such as ignorance, lust and hatred - are temporary, and therefore separable from the mind. Once these defilements are understood to be superficial and not in the mind's basic nature, we see that the deep nature of the mind is clear light, emptiness."

( from "How to Practice, page 172 )

"Although phenomena appear as they do to the mind,
they are not mind, nor anything other than mind.
And so, natural mind, which perceives them,
is in essence an ineffable absence [of self and other], like space."

 


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