Author Topic: relationships  (Read 579 times)

Offline danielbelum

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relationships
« on: December 22, 2017, 04:42:05 am »
I made an off hand comment regarding relationships and that "nothing is permanent". Someone asked me later what the Buddhist view on relationships was and I realized I'd not heard any teaching on the topic one way or the other.

If you were asked "what the Buddhist view on relationships?" what would your answer be?

Offline KathyLauren

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Re: relationships
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2017, 08:03:55 am »
Relationships among people are part of the world of phenomena.  As such, like all other phenomena, they are impermanent and devoid of self.  They are devoid of inherent existence: they arise in response to conditions, and cease when those conditions are gone.

Westerners who have been raised under the influence of religions that regularly intrude into daily life, often wonder "What is the Buddhist teaching on this?", "What is the Buddhist teaching on that?"  The Buddha didn't give a lot of teachings on the minutae if daily life because emptiness and impermanence cover pretty much everything in daily life.

The teachings on daily life consist of the Eightfold Path.

Om mani padme hum
Kathy

Offline IdleChater

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Re: relationships
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2017, 09:09:28 am »
I made an off hand comment regarding relationships and that "nothing is permanent". Someone asked me later what the Buddhist view on relationships was and I realized I'd not heard any teaching on the topic one way or the other.

If you were asked "what the Buddhist view on relationships?" what would your answer be?

I would skip over the whole permanence/emptiness thing.  People will read or listen to that and think "My god, how obtuse can you get?".  You don't want that.  I don't want that.  Nobody wants that.

The Buddhha didn't teach us to treat people and our relationships with them like phenomena, empty of inherent existence (even though they may just be that).  He didn't offer us any teaching on "relationships" as I recall.  I can say one thing - treating relationships like that are certain to make you relationship-free.  IOW, you'll spend many a lonely night with an attitude like that.  I know if I went home tonight and told my wife that our relationship was a phenomena devoid of inherent existence,  I'd be sleeping on the floor of my shrine room.

That said, the Buddha's teaching shows us that we should treat others with kindness and compassion.  Our affection should be without  preference or pretense, deep and abiding.  Love large and find joy in our friends and lovers.

Be a Buddhist for crying out loud, not a bore.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 09:20:24 am by IdleChater »

Offline Anemephistus

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Re: relationships
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2017, 03:59:07 pm »
In deciding to live life with others one thing the teaching is about is removing suffering. It is good to know something's impermanent because it helps us treat what we love with more respect, we and it will not last forever. So we have to enjoy it fully now and remove the obstacles we have to that end. It's definitely bad to present it to my wife as "our marriage is empty of inherency and so are both of us" I am still laughing at that thought as I type this! Thanks for that!

Even though it's funny to think of loss making us happy...Someday, me, or my wife, one of us will die first. If my best expectations reach fruition we will make it to one of us seeing the end of the other.  On that day I would like to not be permanently destroyed If I don't go first, but selfishly I kind of hope I do. I am aware it will happen one way or the other, the way I dwell on this is by trying really hard to enjoy the time I have by using this knowledge to fuel my understanding so that I can really be present in the time I have with those I love instead of badly attached to the idea of having them in my life.


Offline ground

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Re: relationships
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2017, 11:01:56 pm »
If you were asked "what the Buddhist view on relationships?" what would your answer be?
Since no relationship can be found without preceding imputation no answer can be found.

 :fu:


Offline IdleChater

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Re: relationships
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2017, 08:07:55 am »
In deciding to live life with others one thing the teaching is about is removing suffering.

"Removing" isn't a such good word, here.  The Buddha taught the "cessation" of suffering not "removing" it.  The words have different meanings.  Remove can be taken to mean tht one is simply "moving" something from one location to another.  You do get rid of is, so to speak, but only by way of relocation.  This is not cessation.  Cessation is the "ceasing" or "ending" of something.  It implies process or activity.


Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: relationships
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2017, 11:16:11 am »
Westerners who have been raised under the influence of religions that regularly intrude into daily life, often wonder "What is the Buddhist teaching on this?", "What is the Buddhist teaching on that?"  The Buddha didn't give a lot of teachings on the minutae if daily life because emptiness and impermanence cover pretty much everything in daily life. Om mani padme hum

The above is very incorrect Kathy; which is probably why Tibetan society was a totalitarian feudal serfdom rather than followed the teachings of the Buddha on social relationship. The Buddha gave lots of teachings on the minutae of daily life.

If you were asked "what the Buddhist view on relationships?" what would your answer be?

There are many teachings attributed to the Buddha about relationship, such as:

Here: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.055.than.html

Here: https://suttacentral.net/en/an4.53

Here: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.31.0.nara.html

Summarised, here: https://www.mahidol.ac.th/budsir/Contents.html

 :namaste:

« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 11:20:00 am by VisuddhiRaptor »

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: relationships
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2017, 11:23:32 am »
"Removing" isn't a such good word, here.  The Buddha taught the "cessation" of suffering not "removing" it.  The words have different meanings.  Remove can be taken to mean tht one is simply "moving" something from one location to another.  You do get rid of is, so to speak, but only by way of relocation.  This is not cessation.  Cessation is the "ceasing" or "ending" of something.  It implies process or activity.

Right view, Ānanda, when developed and cultivated, has as its final goal the removal of lust, the removal of hatred, the removal of delusion. Right intention … Right concentration, when developed and cultivated, has as its final goal the removal of lust, the removal of hatred, the removal of delusion.

https://suttacentral.net/en/sn45.4


 :teehee:

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: relationships
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2017, 11:35:34 am »
I would skip over the whole permanence/emptiness thing.  People will read or listen to that and think "My god, how obtuse can you get?".  You don't want that.  I don't want that.  Nobody wants that.

Its is reported the Buddha did teach every ordinary relationship is impermanent & will end with at least some sorrow.

Here: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.087.than.html

Here: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/dhp/dhp.16.budd.html

He didn't offer us any teaching on "relationships" as I recall.

The Buddha offered numerous teachings about "relationship". If you actually had read the Buddha's teachings it would not be difficult to recall those teachings.

The Buddhha didn't teach us to treat people and our relationships with them like phenomena, empty of inherent existence (even though they may just be that).    I can say one thing - treating relationships like that are certain to make you relationship-free.  IOW, you'll spend many a lonely night with an attitude like that.  I know if I went home tonight and told my wife that our relationship was a phenomena devoid of inherent existence,  I'd be sleeping on the floor of my shrine room.

Wow! That is certainly not the usual idle chatter but some real wisdom. Merry Christmas!  :rndr: :elf: :bulb: :xmas:

That said, the Buddha's teaching shows us that we should treat others with kindness and compassion.  Our affection should be without  preference or pretense, deep and abiding.  Love large and find joy in our friends and [committed] lovers.

 :jinsyx: Very good. Well spoken.  :pray:

Offline Anemephistus

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Re: relationships
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2017, 07:01:28 pm »
In deciding to live life with others one thing the teaching is about is removing suffering.

"Removing" isn't a such good word, here.  The Buddha taught the "cessation" of suffering not "removing" it.  The words have different meanings.  Remove can be taken to mean tht one is simply "moving" something from one location to another.  You do get rid of is, so to speak, but only by way of relocation.  This is not cessation.  Cessation is the "ceasing" or "ending" of something.  It implies process or activity.

You are correct, and I will have to watch that one since it is specifically different.

Offline IdleChater

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Re: relationships
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2017, 07:22:19 am »
Westerners who have been raised under the influence of religions that regularly intrude into daily life, often wonder "What is the Buddhist teaching on this?", "What is the Buddhist teaching on that?"  The Buddha didn't give a lot of teachings on the minutae if daily life because emptiness and impermanence cover pretty much everything in daily life. Om mani padme hum

The above is very incorrect Kathy; which is probably why Tibetan society was a totalitarian feudal serfdom rather than followed the teachings of the Buddha on social relationship. The Buddha gave lots of teachings on the minutae of daily life.

If you were asked "what the Buddhist view on relationships?" what would your answer be?

There are many teachings attributed to the Buddha about relationship, such as:

Here: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.055.than.html

Here: https://suttacentral.net/en/an4.53

Here: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.31.0.nara.html

Summarised, here: https://www.mahidol.ac.th/budsir/Contents.html

 :namaste:

The Buddha's teaching seem to me to be using relationships as a lesson in impermanece.  A worthy and noble topic to be sure, but absolutely useless in maintaining a relationship.

Offline IdleChater

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Re: relationships
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2017, 07:26:10 am »
"Removing" isn't a such good word, here.  The Buddha taught the "cessation" of suffering not "removing" it.  The words have different meanings.  Remove can be taken to mean tht one is simply "moving" something from one location to another.  You do get rid of is, so to speak, but only by way of relocation.  This is not cessation.  Cessation is the "ceasing" or "ending" of something.  It implies process or activity.

Right view, Ānanda, when developed and cultivated, has as its final goal the removal of lust, the removal of hatred, the removal of delusion. Right intention … Right concentration, when developed and cultivated, has as its final goal the removal of lust, the removal of hatred, the removal of delusion.

https://suttacentral.net/en/sn45.4


 :teehee:

I would suggest that is an incorrect translation.  I don't have an creds to make a strong assertion, but removal, as a choice in phrasing, suggesting relocating lust, hatred, etc. rather than it's cessation, is poor.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 02:29:25 pm by IdleChater »

Offline IdleChater

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Re: relationships
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2017, 07:33:51 am »
That said, the Buddha's teaching shows us that we should treat others with kindness and compassion.  Our affection should be without  preference or pretense, deep and abiding.  Love large and find joy in our friends and [committed] lovers.

 :jinsyx: Very good. Well spoken.  :pray:

Thank you for the compliment, but don't you dare misquote me. 

When I wrote the word "lover" in the post you quote I did not mean [committed].  You added that.  You, are wrong in your interpretation.  I used the word lovers in the broadest scope - casual and committed alike.  But I'm still willing to wager that your experience with either is very limited to non-existant, so your idealistic and perhaps even naive view is sad.

Please don't quote me in that fashion again

Offline BlackLooter

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Re: relationships
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2018, 08:54:15 pm »
Well in one way impermanence is how we relate to objects of phenomenon.. whether they are dependantly arising or not..

But people have free will.. and therefore that is a type of independant arising.. or otherwise a singularity.

So its best to have compassion for both the philosophies of Buddhism and the idea or conception you have of another person..

When you lose all conceptions about each other than you can say youve attained not and non self
Freedom reigns over everything!

 


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