Author Topic: The truth...  (Read 1760 times)

Offline ground

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Re: The truth...
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2011, 10:26:33 pm »
But if we this in this kind we would see that the "global idea" is just your idea of being a "global idea" so it would come back to the "I"


You should observe what you are doing. Be mindful and discern.

We are talking about "truth" and exactly this is evidence for "truth" being a "global idea" (convention). So if you say "just your idea" it is wrong. If it were just my idea we could not communicate about it.

Actually we might just have found out that not knowing the truth is the problem that arises when we communicate. *smile*

So far the talk has been about the term "truth" in general, i.e. a universal. Now you are referring to "the truth" which appears as if you are referring to a particular "truth". But there is only a particular truth we can talk about if we both agree on something being a "truth". so what are you referring to when you say "the truth"?

I don't think so, as the title of the tread is "the truth", but yes in general.

Then you may have misinterpreted my words. Before one can talk meaningful about a particular called "the truth" one has to approach the universal "truth".

The other sentences actually repeat the truth of the truth *smile* the unseen in between.

C'mon. Try to be rational.

... the 4NT

Another idea. But "global" may not apply since it is limited to buddhist convention.
Kind regards

I guess than we have to work on with our faith (out of understanding) so that the truth is no more subject to opinions and doubt. *smile* Saddha (faith) is a very require to attain the insight of truth.

Why "we"? I don't. But you may.
Are you now appealing to what is called "blind faith"?

No to saddha. I had the thought that your try to break truth/the truth again to just a term one might think that the way to truth is doubt. Actually not. Saddha need understanding, without understanding it is not saddha and actually this discussion gives a great opportunity to gain saddha and not to stuggle further on doubt.
So if we clearly understand that enternalism is not true and nihilism is not true, one might say he has doubt, but focusing on what really is it grows to faith. Knowing that neither eternalism nor nihilism is the truth we gain faith in what neither feeds eternalism nor nihilism. So doubt is just a grasping on ideas and it might arise from hope (to find an idea of something in something) or fear (to find nothing that fits to an idea). The kind of doubt that arises of hope is often along those who had a nice experiences or idea and therefor an attachment to what should be true and out of this they don't see the door.
The kind of doubt that arises form fear is often along those who do not have a "positive" attachment but the opposit, so they also do not just simply go on.

So sometimes people are attached to the history and an idea out of it and do not see the door (but their picture of escape looks different), because it doesn't seems to be a door for them and sometimes people are attached to the future and have no ideas how a door could look alike.

So faith means that we walk on on that what we already understand as clear fact. If we know that the wall (eternalism and nihilism) is not the door (truth) we dont need to worry about the door all the time but can go on and notice "wall". So we will not fall into depression or blind faith but simply go on with what we already had understood.

So faith (saddha) means also to understand what is not true and will no time lead to doubt but to remember to notice "wall", "wall" and one would maximum turn 7 time more around noticing "wall" to find the final exit without any stress. How to notice "wall" in the right way is the noble eightfold path. *smile*



Understanding deeply that is the "-" might bring one to start to seek for it with saddha that it is between *smile*

Quote
As to understanding: I don't understand your words :teehee:

kind regards

Maybe I could already explain *smile*
Its about the middle way.
As long as we think on black and white its is also the tool come to the end.

Thanks for your patient *smile*

The issue here doesn't seem to be "the middle way" but English language.


Kind regards

Offline Hanzze

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Re: The truth...
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2011, 10:47:36 pm »
But if we this in this kind we would see that the "global idea" is just your idea of being a "global idea" so it would come back to the "I"


You should observe what you are doing. Be mindful and discern.

We are talking about "truth" and exactly this is evidence for "truth" being a "global idea" (convention). So if you say "just your idea" it is wrong. If it were just my idea we could not communicate about it.

Actually we might just have found out that not knowing the truth is the problem that arises when we communicate. *smile*

So far the talk has been about the term "truth" in general, i.e. a universal. Now you are referring to "the truth" which appears as if you are referring to a particular "truth". But there is only a particular truth we can talk about if we both agree on something being a "truth". so what are you referring to when you say "the truth"?

I don't think so, as the title of the tread is "the truth", but yes in general.

Then you may have misinterpreted my words. Before one can talk meaningful about a particular called "the truth" one has to approach the universal "truth".

And that is what I like to reject, if you look at how the Buddha taught you will not find many talks describing the truth (like it is usual today for many teachers how putting traps). The Buddha pointed always out, what is not the truth and in make the way to it walkable, from the beginning till the end without getting stuck. *smile*

The other sentences actually repeat the truth of the truth *smile* the unseen in between.

C'mon. Try to be rational.

Does that mean you could explain directly?

... the 4NT

Another idea. But "global" may not apply since it is limited to buddhist convention.
Kind regards

I guess than we have to work on with our faith (out of understanding) so that the truth is no more subject to opinions and doubt. *smile* Saddha (faith) is a very require to attain the insight of truth.

Why "we"? I don't. But you may.
Are you now appealing to what is called "blind faith"?

No to saddha. I had the thought that your try to break truth/the truth again to just a term one might think that the way to truth is doubt. Actually not. Saddha need understanding, without understanding it is not saddha and actually this discussion gives a great opportunity to gain saddha and not to stuggle further on doubt.
So if we clearly understand that enternalism is not true and nihilism is not true, one might say he has doubt, but focusing on what really is it grows to faith. Knowing that neither eternalism nor nihilism is the truth we gain faith in what neither feeds eternalism nor nihilism. So doubt is just a grasping on ideas and it might arise from hope (to find an idea of something in something) or fear (to find nothing that fits to an idea). The kind of doubt that arises of hope is often along those who had a nice experiences or idea and therefor an attachment to what should be true and out of this they don't see the door.
The kind of doubt that arises form fear is often along those who do not have a "positive" attachment but the opposit, so they also do not just simply go on.

So sometimes people are attached to the history and an idea out of it and do not see the door (but their picture of escape looks different), because it doesn't seems to be a door for them and sometimes people are attached to the future and have no ideas how a door could look alike.

So faith means that we walk on on that what we already understand as clear fact. If we know that the wall (eternalism and nihilism) is not the door (truth) we dont need to worry about the door all the time but can go on and notice "wall". So we will not fall into depression or blind faith but simply go on with what we already had understood.

So faith (saddha) means also to understand what is not true and will no time lead to doubt but to remember to notice "wall", "wall" and one would maximum turn 7 time more around noticing "wall" to find the final exit without any stress. How to notice "wall" in the right way is the noble eightfold path. *smile*


Always open for it, sometimes it can reflect something useful *smile* but when the suggar is to much it comes to dislike.

Understanding deeply that is the "-" might bring one to start to seek for it with saddha that it is between *smile*

Quote
As to understanding: I don't understand your words :teehee:

kind regards

Maybe I could already explain *smile*
Its about the middle way.
As long as we think on black and white its is also the tool come to the end.

Thanks for your patient *smile*

The issue here doesn't seem to be "the middle way" but English language.

Kind regards
[/quote]
Well that is a broadly noticeable aspect of incapacity of language. Some see such phenomena as a "global idea" (convention) and are attached of it. Are you sure that this is not also an issue of the "the middle way"?
*smile*

Offline ground

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Re: The truth...
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2011, 11:14:02 pm »
But if we this in this kind we would see that the "global idea" is just your idea of being a "global idea" so it would come back to the "I"


You should observe what you are doing. Be mindful and discern.

We are talking about "truth" and exactly this is evidence for "truth" being a "global idea" (convention). So if you say "just your idea" it is wrong. If it were just my idea we could not communicate about it.

Actually we might just have found out that not knowing the truth is the problem that arises when we communicate. *smile*

So far the talk has been about the term "truth" in general, i.e. a universal. Now you are referring to "the truth" which appears as if you are referring to a particular "truth". But there is only a particular truth we can talk about if we both agree on something being a "truth". so what are you referring to when you say "the truth"?

I don't think so, as the title of the tread is "the truth", but yes in general.

Then you may have misinterpreted my words. Before one can talk meaningful about a particular called "the truth" one has to approach the universal "truth".

And that is what I like to reject, ...

Okay then I reject your rejection. :teehee:


The other sentences actually repeat the truth of the truth *smile* the unseen in between.

C'mon. Try to be rational.

Does that mean you could explain directly?

I have already but it seems you have not understood.

... the 4NT

Another idea. But "global" may not apply since it is limited to buddhist convention.
Kind regards

I guess than we have to work on with our faith (out of understanding) so that the truth is no more subject to opinions and doubt. *smile* Saddha (faith) is a very require to attain the insight of truth.

Why "we"? I don't. But you may.
Are you now appealing to what is called "blind faith"?

No to saddha. I had the thought that your try to break truth/the truth again to just a term one might think that the way to truth is doubt. Actually not. Saddha need understanding, without understanding it is not saddha and actually this discussion gives a great opportunity to gain saddha and not to stuggle further on doubt.
So if we clearly understand that enternalism is not true and nihilism is not true, one might say he has doubt, but focusing on what really is it grows to faith. Knowing that neither eternalism nor nihilism is the truth we gain faith in what neither feeds eternalism nor nihilism. So doubt is just a grasping on ideas and it might arise from hope (to find an idea of something in something) or fear (to find nothing that fits to an idea). The kind of doubt that arises of hope is often along those who had a nice experiences or idea and therefor an attachment to what should be true and out of this they don't see the door.
The kind of doubt that arises form fear is often along those who do not have a "positive" attachment but the opposit, so they also do not just simply go on.

So sometimes people are attached to the history and an idea out of it and do not see the door (but their picture of escape looks different), because it doesn't seems to be a door for them and sometimes people are attached to the future and have no ideas how a door could look alike.

So faith means that we walk on on that what we already understand as clear fact. If we know that the wall (eternalism and nihilism) is not the door (truth) we dont need to worry about the door all the time but can go on and notice "wall". So we will not fall into depression or blind faith but simply go on with what we already had understood.

So faith (saddha) means also to understand what is not true and will no time lead to doubt but to remember to notice "wall", "wall" and one would maximum turn 7 time more around noticing "wall" to find the final exit without any stress. How to notice "wall" in the right way is the noble eightfold path. *smile*


Always open for it, sometimes it can reflect something useful *smile* but when the suggar is to much it comes to dislike.

And sometimes the weather is like this and sometimes like that :lmfao:

Understanding deeply that is the "-" might bring one to start to seek for it with saddha that it is between *smile*

Quote
As to understanding: I don't understand your words :teehee:

kind regards

Maybe I could already explain *smile*
Its about the middle way.
As long as we think on black and white its is also the tool come to the end.

Thanks for your patient *smile*

The issue here doesn't seem to be "the middle way" but English language.

Kind regards

Well that is a broadly noticeable aspect of incapacity of language. Some see such phenomena as a "global idea" (convention) and are attached of it. Are you sure that this is not also an issue of the "the middle way"?
*smile*
[/quote][/quote]
Could also be an issue of stubborness. :D

Kind regards
« Last Edit: October 19, 2011, 11:18:37 pm by TMingyur. »

Offline Hanzze

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Re: The truth...
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2011, 11:27:50 pm »
Have you ever seen how the graphic and arangement of this quote lines look if it comes to the middle? *smile* Would be maybe from interest if it causes an error or an out of limits or just a unmanageable entanglement. *smile*

I guess it needs a lot of effort to come to the point being able to observe.

 


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