Author Topic: The Ultimate Truth of Amida Buddha  (Read 1766 times)

Offline Dharma Flower

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The Ultimate Truth of Amida Buddha
« on: September 10, 2017, 10:29:47 pm »
On the level of relative truth, Amida is a flesh and blood Buddha from galaxies away, eons before the Big Bang.

On the level of ultimate truth, Amida is Dharma-body itself, the Buddha-nature in all things and beings:
https://ekayanadharma.wordpress.com/2011/06/02/amida-with-and-without-form/

The name Amida means eternal life and infinite light, which symbolize the compassion and wisdom of Dharma-body.

From the beginning of Buddhism, the distinction has been made between relative truth and ultimate truth:

Quote
In studying and speaking the Dharma, we especially need to be aware of the conventional (or worldly or cultural) level and the ultimate (param’attha) or spiritual or Dharma) level of teaching.

The conventional language is only useful and wholesome when they point, even remotely, to the true Dharma. And at the proper time, this reference should be clarified to the follower or practitioner. The point is that the spiritual should in due course transcend the worldly and cultural.

The Neyy’attha Nīt’attha Sutta (A 2.3.5-6) records an important reminder by the Buddha on how we should approach every sutta and text, that is, we must carefully consider whether the language is conventional (based on everyday language describing causes and conditions) or ultimate (that is, Dharma language, pointing to the fact that things have no intrinsic nature or abiding essence).

Those suttas or teachings that tell stories, describe ritual acts, or that talk of “beings,” “gods,” etc, need to have their meaning drawn out (neyy’attha), as they do not directly refer to true reality. They use language and words in the form of a story or images to talk about true reality. Their meaning is indirect.
http://dharmafarer.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/2.6b_Neyyattha_Nitattha_S_a2.3.5-6_piya.pdf


In reciting the name, Namu-Amida-Butsu, we awaken to the compassionate outworking of Dharma-body in our lives, leading us to the Pure Land, the realm of Nirvana.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 10:38:57 pm by Dharma Flower »

Offline ground

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Re: The Ultimate Truth of Amida Buddha
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2017, 11:10:13 pm »
...
On the level of ultimate truth, Amida is Dharma-body itself, the Buddha-nature in all things and beings:
...

What kind of 'ultimate level' are impermanent fabrications that are empty of inherent existence?  :fu:

Offline Dharma Flower

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Re: The Ultimate Truth of Amida Buddha
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2017, 01:13:03 am »
...
On the level of ultimate truth, Amida is Dharma-body itself, the Buddha-nature in all things and beings:
...


What kind of 'ultimate level' are impermanent fabrications that are empty of inherent existence?  :fu:


The Dharmakaya is not impermanent. From a Mahayana perspective, the Dharmakaya and Nirvana are aspects of the same Ultimate Reality, what the Buddha called the unconditioned:

Quote
O bhikkhus, there is the unborn, ungrown, and unconditioned. Were there not the unborn, ungrown, and unconditioned, there would be no escape from the born, grown, and conditioned. Since there is the unborn, ungrown, and unconditioned, so there is escape from the born, grown, and conditioned.
https://sites.google.com/site/rahulawhatthebuddha/the-third-noble-truth


Quote
Supreme nirvana is uncreated dharma-body. Uncreated dharma-body is true reality. True reality is dharma-nature. Dharma-nature is suchness. Suchness is oneness. Amida Tathagata comes forth from suchness and manifests various bodies – fulfilled, accommodated, and transformed.
http://shinranworks.com/the-major-expositions/chapter-on-realization/


Quote
Nirvana has innumerable names. It is impossible to give them in detail; I will list only a few. Nirvana is called extinction of passions, the uncreated, peaceful happiness, eternal bliss, true reality, dharma-body, dharma-nature, suchness, oneness, and Buddha-nature. Buddha-nature is none other than Tathagata. This Tathagata pervades the countless worlds; it fills the hearts and minds of the ocean of all beings. Thus, plants, trees, and land all attain Buddhahood.
http://shinranwritings.blogspot.com/p/notes-on-essentials-of-faith-alone.html
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 01:18:36 am by Dharma Flower »

Offline ground

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Re: The Ultimate Truth of Amida Buddha
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2017, 02:18:27 am »
...
On the level of ultimate truth, Amida is Dharma-body itself, the Buddha-nature in all things and beings:
...

What kind of 'ultimate level' are impermanent fabrications that are empty of inherent existence?  :fu:

The Dharmakaya is not impermanent. From a Mahayana perspective, the Dharmakaya and Nirvana are aspects of the same Ultimate Reality, what the Buddha called the unconditioned: ...

How could there be an 'unconditioned' depending on linguistic expression of 'the unconditioned' and quotations of linguistic expressions? That's ridiculous.
Just conditioned mental fabrications.

Offline Dharma Flower

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Re: The Ultimate Truth of Amida Buddha
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2017, 02:55:26 am »
...
On the level of ultimate truth, Amida is Dharma-body itself, the Buddha-nature in all things and beings:
...

What kind of 'ultimate level' are impermanent fabrications that are empty of inherent existence?  :fu:

The Dharmakaya is not impermanent. From a Mahayana perspective, the Dharmakaya and Nirvana are aspects of the same Ultimate Reality, what the Buddha called the unconditioned: ...

How could there be an 'unconditioned' depending on linguistic expression of 'the unconditioned' and quotations of linguistic expressions? That's ridiculous.
Just conditioned mental fabrications.

I don't know, dude. It doesn't seem like you are being respectful of Mahayana teachings.

Offline Dharma Flower

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Re: The Ultimate Truth of Amida Buddha
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2017, 03:05:16 am »
It's honestly hard for me to believe that Amida is a Buddha from a distant planet, from eons before the historical founder of Buddhism was even born. For me, it's like insisting that a cartoon character was a real person.

Thankfully, Mahayana Buddhism has concepts like skillful means and the two-truths doctrine, so one doesn't have to believe that Amida is a literal flesh and blood Buddha in order to benefit from Pure Land practice.

Online IdleChater

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Re: The Ultimate Truth of Amida Buddha
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2017, 03:38:03 am »
...
On the level of ultimate truth, Amida is Dharma-body itself, the Buddha-nature in all things and beings:
...

What kind of 'ultimate level' are impermanent fabrications that are empty of inherent existence?  :fu:

The Dharmakaya is not impermanent. From a Mahayana perspective, the Dharmakaya and Nirvana are aspects of the same Ultimate Reality, what the Buddha called the unconditioned: ...

How could there be an 'unconditioned' depending on linguistic expression of 'the unconditioned' and quotations of linguistic expressions? That's ridiculous.
Just conditioned mental fabrications.

I don't know, dude. It doesn't seem like you are being respectful of Mahayana teachings.

He isn't.  Ground doesn't respect any belif apart from his own.

Offline ground

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Re: The Ultimate Truth of Amida Buddha
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2017, 09:58:02 pm »
...
On the level of ultimate truth, Amida is Dharma-body itself, the Buddha-nature in all things and beings:
...

What kind of 'ultimate level' are impermanent fabrications that are empty of inherent existence?  :fu:

The Dharmakaya is not impermanent. From a Mahayana perspective, the Dharmakaya and Nirvana are aspects of the same Ultimate Reality, what the Buddha called the unconditioned: ...

How could there be an 'unconditioned' depending on linguistic expression of 'the unconditioned' and quotations of linguistic expressions? That's ridiculous.
Just conditioned mental fabrications.

I don't know, dude. It doesn't seem like you are being respectful of Mahayana teachings.

If you're expressing your view in "The Dharma Express" section then it may draw all kinds of criticisms that may arise from all kinds of buddhist perspectives.
So check if you can find a forum section that is dedicated exclusively to your view. If however your view is a private view then you won't find a place where your view will be protected against criticism. A secure place however at any rate is your mind. To be on the save side you may refrain from uttering your view.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 10:00:29 pm by ground »

Offline Dharma Flower

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Re: The Ultimate Truth of Amida Buddha
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2017, 10:18:25 pm »
...
On the level of ultimate truth, Amida is Dharma-body itself, the Buddha-nature in all things and beings:
...

What kind of 'ultimate level' are impermanent fabrications that are empty of inherent existence?  :fu:

The Dharmakaya is not impermanent. From a Mahayana perspective, the Dharmakaya and Nirvana are aspects of the same Ultimate Reality, what the Buddha called the unconditioned: ...

How could there be an 'unconditioned' depending on linguistic expression of 'the unconditioned' and quotations of linguistic expressions? That's ridiculous.
Just conditioned mental fabrications.

I don't know, dude. It doesn't seem like you are being respectful of Mahayana teachings.

If you're expressing your view in "The Dharma Express" section then it may draw all kinds of criticisms that may arise from all kinds of buddhist perspectives.
So check if you can find a forum section that is dedicated exclusively to your view. If however your view is a private view then you won't find a place where your view will be protected against criticism. A secure place however at any rate is your mind. To be on the save side you may refrain from uttering your view.

Let's keep it ecumenical, dude.

Offline Dharma Flower

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Re: The Ultimate Truth of Amida Buddha
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2017, 03:24:44 pm »
Reciting the Nembutsu, Namu-Amida-Butsu, is not a “good deed” on our part by which we “earn” our future Buddhahood. Neither is it petitionary prayer to a theistic god.

It is instead an expression of gratitude to Amida Buddha, the boundless wisdom and compassion otherwise known as Dharmakaya or Dharma-body, for our future rebirth into the Pure Land, the realm of Nirvana. This sense of gratitude wells up into a change of heart and a change of life:

Quote
It is deplorable that you have told people to abandon themselves to their hearts’ desires and to do anything they want. One must seek to cast off the evil of this world and to cease doing wretched deeds; this is what it means to reject the world and to live the Nembutsu. When people who may have said the Nembutsu for many years abuse others in word or deed, there is no indication of rejecting this world.
http://shinranworks.com/letters/lamp-for-the-latter-ages/16-2/


The Nembutsu is also an expression of non-duality between Amida and ourselves, of Amida’s voice calling to us through the saying of his name:
http://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803100036415

These things regarding the Nembutsu were taught by Shinran Shonin, who founded the Jodo Shinshu sect of Pure Land Buddhism, the largest sect of Buddhism in Japan.

This is similar to the teaching of Zen master Dogen, who taught that Zen meditation is an expression of the innate enlightenment with which we were born, rather than a “work” toward attaining it. Both Dogen and Shinran described their respective practice as effortless practice.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 03:43:02 pm by Dharma Flower »

Offline ground

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Re: The Ultimate Truth of Amida Buddha
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2017, 08:18:31 pm »
...
On the level of ultimate truth, Amida is Dharma-body itself, the Buddha-nature in all things and beings:
...

What kind of 'ultimate level' are impermanent fabrications that are empty of inherent existence?  :fu:

The Dharmakaya is not impermanent. From a Mahayana perspective, the Dharmakaya and Nirvana are aspects of the same Ultimate Reality, what the Buddha called the unconditioned: ...

How could there be an 'unconditioned' depending on linguistic expression of 'the unconditioned' and quotations of linguistic expressions? That's ridiculous.
Just conditioned mental fabrications.

I don't know, dude. It doesn't seem like you are being respectful of Mahayana teachings.

If you're expressing your view in "The Dharma Express" section then it may draw all kinds of criticisms that may arise from all kinds of buddhist perspectives.
So check if you can find a forum section that is dedicated exclusively to your view. If however your view is a private view then you won't find a place where your view will be protected against criticism. A secure place however at any rate is your mind. To be on the save side you may refrain from uttering your view.

Let's keep it ecumenical, dude.

'ecumenical' is a christian concept. Oxford dictionary: 'involving or uniting members of different branches of the Christian Church.

See how deeply you still are conditioned by your upbringing?

Offline Dharma Flower

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Re: The Ultimate Truth of Amida Buddha
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2017, 11:56:50 pm »
In western culture, there’s this sense that if a religious teaching or scripture isn’t literally true, then it must be pointless or valueless. That’s not how Buddhism traditionally looks at things:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upaya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_truths_doctrine

If the Ultimate Truth of Dharma-body is beyond name and form, then we need the name and form of Amida Buddha to connect with it, whether Amida is a literal Buddha or not. This reminds me of a famous Zen koan.

Zen master Yunmen was once asked, “What is Buddha?” To this he answered, “A shit-covered stick.” If Dharma-body is within all things, that even includes a dry, feces-covered stick. Why worry, then, if Amida is a literal Buddha?
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 12:25:28 am by Dharma Flower »

Online IdleChater

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Re: The Ultimate Truth of Amida Buddha
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2017, 09:31:17 am »
...
On the level of ultimate truth, Amida is Dharma-body itself, the Buddha-nature in all things and beings:
...

What kind of 'ultimate level' are impermanent fabrications that are empty of inherent existence?  :fu:

The Dharmakaya is not impermanent. From a Mahayana perspective, the Dharmakaya and Nirvana are aspects of the same Ultimate Reality, what the Buddha called the unconditioned: ...

How could there be an 'unconditioned' depending on linguistic expression of 'the unconditioned' and quotations of linguistic expressions? That's ridiculous.
Just conditioned mental fabrications.

I don't know, dude. It doesn't seem like you are being respectful of Mahayana teachings.

If you're expressing your view in "The Dharma Express" section then it may draw all kinds of criticisms that may arise from all kinds of buddhist perspectives.
So check if you can find a forum section that is dedicated exclusively to your view. If however your view is a private view then you won't find a place where your view will be protected against criticism. A secure place however at any rate is your mind. To be on the save side you may refrain from uttering your view.

Let's keep it ecumenical, dude.

'ecumenical' is a christian concept. Oxford dictionary: 'involving or uniting members of different branches of the Christian Church.

See how deeply you still are conditioned by your upbringing?

Then how about lets not be so anal.  You know what he meant.

It only shows what a jerk you are.

Offline Dharma Flower

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Re: The Ultimate Truth of Amida Buddha
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2017, 09:35:16 am »
Amida Buddha in my perspective is the Dharma-body that's inherent in every practitioner.

That makes sense if Dharma-body is in everything.

Offline Dharma Flower

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Re: The Ultimate Truth of Amida Buddha
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2017, 01:19:02 pm »
Amida Buddha in my perspective is the Dharma-body that's inherent in every practitioner.

That makes sense if Dharma-body is in everything.

That would bring me to the conclusion that Dharma-body is within the mind.

Sure, sure. How likely is it, though, that one will realize Dharma-body and attain Buddhahood in this lifetime?

 


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