Author Topic: There is only space and movement  (Read 601 times)

Offline Spiny Norman

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There is only space and movement
« on: September 06, 2017, 04:08:30 am »
There is only space and movement.

The space we occupy, and the "space" of our mind.

The movement of the elements, our senses, and our mind.

What do you think?

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: There is only space and movement
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2017, 04:57:30 am »
Dangerous. See ongoing discussions with Aharahant Ground, Norman.
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Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: There is only space and movement
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2017, 12:38:55 pm »
we... our ... our .. our... you ?

 :lmfao:

Quote
Though all his life a fool associates with a wise man, he no more comprehends the Truth than a spoon tastes the flavor of the soup.

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: There is only space and movement
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2017, 12:51:36 pm »
There is only space and movement.

The space we occupy, and the "space" of our mind.

The movement of the elements, our senses, and our mind.

What do you think?

There is only elements. This is sunnata. This is the Buddha-Dhamma. Refer to MN 115. Mind elements that hate & disparage the word 'element' are doomed to dukkha. By simply honoring one word, namely, 'element', freedom will be realised. 'Element' is the holy word, more supreme than 'God'. :namaste:

Offline ground

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Re: There is only space and movement
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2017, 01:56:23 pm »
There is only space and movement.
Actually here is no movement. Why? What space accommodates is not inherently different from space because it vanishes leaving no trace in that space. So objects and non-moving space are not inherently different.

The space we occupy, and the "space" of our mind.
The space which is the empty nature of mind manifests as and in outer space. One space. No limit, no centre.

Offline ground

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Re: There is only space and movement
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2017, 02:01:08 pm »
Space is pure negativity. Why negativity? Because it's pure absence of everything and nothing. Cessation of perception.

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: There is only space and movement
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2017, 02:09:18 pm »
Space is pure negativity. Why negativity? Because it's pure absence of everything and nothing. Cessation of perception.

Space is conditioned & bondage. Refer to MN 140.

Offline ground

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Re: There is only space and movement
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2017, 02:20:27 pm »
Space is pure negativity. Why negativity? Because it's pure absence of everything and nothing. Cessation of perception.

Space is conditioned & bondage. Refer to MN 140.
you don't get the metaphor 'space' since you do not perceive emptiness directly. It has nothing to do with the formless.

Offline Samana Johann

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Re: There is only space and movement
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2017, 04:38:46 pm »
There is only space and movement.

The space we occupy, and the "space" of our mind.

The movement of the elements, our senses, and our mind.

What do you think?


There is only elements. This is sunnata. This is the Buddha-Dhamma. Refer to MN 115. Mind elements that hate & disparage the word 'element' are doomed to dukkha. By simply honoring one word, namely, 'element', freedom will be realised. 'Element' is the holy word, more supreme than 'God'. :namaste:


That was the opinion of the confused God, yes... thought he is a mighty creator (see also DN11)

Quote
Where do water, earth, fire, & wind
   have no footing?
Where are long & short,
   coarse & fine,
   fair & foul,
   name & form
brought to an end?
"'And the answer to that is:


Consciousness without feature,[1]
      without end,
   luminous all around:
Here water, earth, fire, & wind
   have no footing.
Here long & short
   coarse & fine
   fair & foul
   name & form
are all brought to an end.
With the cessation of [the activity of] consciousness
   each is here brought to an end.'"


Quote
Brahma-nimantanika Sutta: The Brahma Invitation

..."'They, with the break-up of the body, with the cutting off of life, were established in a coarse body.[3] There were, monk, before your time, brahmans & contemplatives in the world

who praised earth and were delighted with earth,
who praised liquid and were delighted with liquid,
who praised fire and were delighted with fire,
who praised wind and were delighted with wind,
who praised beings and were delighted with beings,
who praised devas and were delighted with devas,
who praised Pajapati and were delighted with Pajapati,
who praised Brahma and were delighted with Brahma.
"'They, with the break-up of the body, with the cutting off of life, were established in a refined body. So I tell you, monk, "Please, good sir, do only as Brahma says. Don't defy the word of Brahma. If you defy the word of Brahma, then — as a man, when the goddess of fortune approaches, chases her away with a stick, or as a man, falling into hell, loses hold of the earth with his hands and feet — that will be what you have accomplished. Please, good sir, do only as Brahma says. Don't defy the word of Brahma. Don't you see that Brahma's assembly has gathered?"' And so Mara the Evil One directed my attention to Brahma's assembly....


So in this regard and confusion its clear that Element and Ground and confused Gods do not really distinguish from each other.

That was meant by Danger, Norman, take care on the perception "there is just mind" at a to early time in practice. Easy one ends up like them, regardless of maybe more or lesser attracting intellect and ways of expressions.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 04:45:44 pm by Samana Johann »
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Offline IdleChater

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Re: There is only space and movement
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2017, 05:08:08 pm »
What do you think?

I think it's a trick question.

To trick certain people into something pointless and silly.

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: There is only space and movement
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2017, 06:00:21 pm »
who praised earth and were delighted with earth,
who praised liquid and were delighted with liquid,
who praised fire and were delighted with fire,
who praised wind and were delighted with wind,
who praised beings and were delighted with beings,
who praised devas and were delighted with devas,
who praised Pajapati and were delighted with Pajapati,
who praised Brahma and were delighted with Brahma.


Johann has wrong view.  :bigtears: :brick:

Quote
Bhikkhus, whatever fears arise, all arise because of the fool  :teehee:, not because of the wise man; whatever troubles arise, all arise because of the fool  :lmfao:, not because of the wise man; whatever calamities arise, all arise because of the fool, not because of the wise man. Just as a fire that starts in a shed made of rushes or grass burns down even a house with a peaked roof, with walls plastered inside and outside, shut off, secured by bars, with shuttered windows; so too, bhikkhus, whatever fears arise...all arise because of the fool, not because of the wise man. Thus the fool brings fear, the wise man brings no fear; the fool brings trouble, the wise man brings no trouble; the fool brings calamity, the wise man brings no calamity. No fear comes from the wise man, no trouble comes from the wise man, no calamity comes from the wise man. Therefore, bhikkhus, you should train thus: ‘We shall be wise men, we shall be inquirers.

When, Ānanda,  :fu:a bhikkhu is skilled in the elements :om:, skilled in the bases, skilled in dependent origination, skilled in what is possible and what is impossible, in that way he can be called a wise man and an inquirer.

  :pray::dharma: :buddha: :jinsyx: :jinsyx: :jinsyx: :namaste:


Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: There is only space and movement
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2017, 06:12:46 pm »
That was the opinion of the confused God, yes... thought he is a mighty creator (see also DN11)

Quote
Where do water, earth, fire, & wind
   have no footing?
Where are long & short,
   coarse & fine,
   fair & foul,
   name & form
brought to an end?
"'And the answer to that is:


Consciousness without feature,[1]
      without end,
   luminous all around:
Here water, earth, fire, & wind
   have no footing.
Here long & short
   coarse & fine
   fair & foul
   name & form
are all brought to an end.
With the cessation of [the activity of] consciousness
   each is here brought to an end.'"


Quote
Brahma-nimantanika Sutta: The Brahma Invitation

..."'They, with the break-up of the body, with the cutting off of life, were established in a coarse body.[3] There were, monk, before your time, brahmans & contemplatives in the world

who praised earth and were delighted with earth,
who praised liquid and were delighted with liquid,
who praised fire and were delighted with fire,
who praised wind and were delighted with wind,
who praised beings and were delighted with beings,
who praised devas and were delighted with devas,
who praised Pajapati and were delighted with Pajapati,
who praised Brahma and were delighted with Brahma.
"'They, with the break-up of the body, with the cutting off of life, were established in a refined body. So I tell you, monk, "Please, good sir, do only as Brahma says. Don't defy the word of Brahma. If you defy the word of Brahma, then — as a man, when the goddess of fortune approaches, chases her away with a stick, or as a man, falling into hell, loses hold of the earth with his hands and feet — that will be what you have accomplished. Please, good sir, do only as Brahma says. Don't defy the word of Brahma. Don't you see that Brahma's assembly has gathered?"' And so Mara the Evil One directed my attention to Brahma's assembly....




Johann does not even understand what Johann is quoting.  :curtain:

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: There is only space and movement
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2017, 06:17:06 pm »
Mind elements that hate & disparage :taz: the word 'element' are doomed to dukkha.  :onfire:

  :pray: AN 3.61  :namaste:

Quote
Bhikkhus, this Dhamma taught by me is unrefuted, undefiled, irreproachable and uncensured by wise ascetics and brahmins. And what is the Dhamma taught by me that is unrefuted, undefiled, irreproachabl, and uncensured by wise ascetics and brahmins?

These are the six elements’: this, bhikkhus, is the Dhamma taught by me that is unrefuted … uncensured by wise ascetics and brahmins. ‘These are the six bases for contact’ … ‘These are the eighteen mental examinations’ … ‘These are the four noble truths’: this, bhikkhus, is the Dhamma taught by me that is unrefuted, undefiled, irreproachable and uncensured by wise ascetics and brahmins.

 :dharma: :buddha: :pray:

Offline ground

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Re: There is only space and movement
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2017, 10:07:40 pm »
"Although phenomena appear as they do to the mind,
they are not mind, nor anything other than mind.
And so, natural mind, which perceives them,
is in essence an ineffable absence [of self and other], like space."

"Within the expanse of spontaneous presence is the ground of all that arises.
Empty in essence, continuous by nature,
it has never existed as anything whatsoever, yet arises as anything at all.
Within the expanse of the three kayas, although samsara and nirvana arise naturally,
they do not stray from basic space - such is the blissful realm that is the true nature of phenomena.

Mind itself is a vast expanse, the realm of unchanging space.
Its indeterminate display is the expanse of the magical expression of its responsiveness.
Everything is the adornment of basic space and nothing else.
Outwardly and inwardly, things proliferating and resolving are the dynamic energy of awakened mind.
Because this is nothing whatsoever yet arises as anything at all,
it is a marvellous and magical expression, amazing and superb."
http://www.freesangha.com/forums/dzogchen/the-precious-treasury-of-the-basic-space-of-phenomena/
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 10:13:31 pm by ground »

Offline Spiny Norman

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Re: There is only space and movement
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2017, 01:34:30 am »
'Element' is the holy word, more supreme than 'God'. :namaste:

It sounds like you are suffering from delusions of grandeur, Element.    :wacky:

 


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