Author Topic: Amida is a real Buddha?  (Read 3292 times)

Offline stillpointdancer

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Re: Amida is a real Buddha?
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2017, 03:07:23 am »
How can one truly be compassionate with blood on their lips from lunch? Compassion increases in the heart when fundamental discipline is applied towards diet and one no longer consumes sentient Beings. This is the secret of Indra's net. We must leave behind the carnal web of life and its suffering and bring everything to a higher level, a higher understanding, a higher lifestyle choice and a higher consciousness which provides a higher vibrational field throughout time and space.

Sorry Ficus. I know that remark was for Zafrogzen, but I want to answer your question. You can be compassionate towards animals you are eating, just as you can be compassionate towards plants you are eating. Just because you personally cant hear the lettuce leaf screaming doesn't mean it isn't. 'Blood on their lips from lunch' is a truly venomous, hateful phrase, and something you need to let go of to make further progress. Again, apologies for butting into a conversation that was not directed at me, but my sense of compassion meant I had to say something.
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

Offline IdleChater

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Re: Amida is a real Buddha?
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2017, 06:09:06 pm »
Stillpointdancer---

No you can not be compassionate towards animals that you eat. Such disillusion!

Seriously, are you going to tell me a leaf of lettuce suffers the same as an animal? Is this your deluded understanding? Really?

Perhaps you should visit a slaughter house. I am sure there are animal slaughter videos on YouTube you can watch. Is this your Buddhism; kill 'em and lie and eat 'em up?

You do not like hearing about the blood dripping from your lips after lunch? Then do not eat meat!

Go vegan!

Seeing as you brought up abbatoirs, never been in one myself, but I have taken part in the actual killing and slaughtering of animals I've  eaten.  It's  a grizzly buisness.  I've  heard the sound of a bullet ripping through the skull of an animal I shot, heard and watched their death throes, and have been cloaked in their blood.  I've stood in their bloddy guts.  There's nothing pleasant in it, but it's  never dulled my appetite.  I'm  oky with the karmic consequences of that as well as the ribs I had for dinner tonight.  My guru is ok with it too, so your condemnations are as meaningless to me as they are vapid.

Offline zafrogzen

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Re: Amida is a real Buddha?
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2017, 09:01:47 pm »
Fig's rhetoric reminds me of anti-abortion zealots.
My first formal meditation training was with Shunryu Suzuki in the 60's and later with Kobun, Robert Aitken and many other teachers (mainly zen). However, I've spent the most time practicing on my own, which is all I do now. I'm living in a rather isolated area so I miss connecting with other practitioners. Despite my interest in zen I've made an effort to remain secular. You can visit my website at http://www.frogzen.com

Offline LetGo

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Re: Amida is a real Buddha?
« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2017, 09:07:07 pm »

Offline Solodris

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Re: Amida is a real Buddha?
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2017, 12:32:47 am »
Ommmmmmm,

May the Vegan Bodhisattvas help the minds of these sentient beings to find the truth of animal cruelty as the greatest mass of Suffering upon this planet, may the Cause of this Suffering be revealed to them as their own hardness of hearts and the delusion of so many wayward minds. May the suffering cycle of Samsara not increase with such dis-compassion because we do not want more suffering upon this Earth as they process their Karma. May they find the path that leads to the End to such Carnal Suffering by changing their lives to be vegan. May they accept this path with seriousness. May their laughter at the mocking of the path now, become tears of conscience later. May their time as vegans clarify the truth in their hearts that the suffering they contributed to was unnecessary and careless.

Om Vegan Amrita Prabha Buddha.

As Ajahn Brahm once said: "Every problem has a solution, something that does not have a solution is not a problem and you just have to make peace with it."

Trying to project your own solutions about your own surroundings might be creating problems for people who don't recognize them as actual problems. So in perspective, there is something that is not a problem for someone, something they experience to be at peace at, and then you assert a solution and suddenly it's a problem that causes suffering for these people. Having made peace with something is non-dualistic and has no confusion, it's simply nature. Creating a solution where there is peace is enforcing a distinctive problem to be recognized and be dealt with, this is not compassionate, right effort or right motivation. What happens if you try to recognize things that you have created solutions for and erase them to make peace with the problem from another perspective?

What I'm saying is, forcing your own views on Veganism is putting a problem for members here that does not share your view and simply want to remain in the peace from their perspective of there being no problem. Enforcing a problem, makes it problematic, it's not a pleasant conversational topic, it doesn't lead to unbinding from cyclic suffering. You're in a perpetual cycle of establishing a problem that no one else can find peace with. This is not how brothers and sisters speak to each other. Please understand, I'm occasionally Vegan and certainly supports anyone's choice to make it their lifestyle, my Vegan practice is mostly based on meditation where I explore the different aspects of adopting it. But telling other people that they should be Vegan is something I would never do. There is no benefit to be found in a conversation filled with enforced aversion.

The practice we strive for, is to harmonize not only with animals, but fellow human beings as well. On every level. If we do not harmonize with our fellow human beings, how are we supposed to teach each-other anything?

Offline Solodris

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Re: Amida is a real Buddha?
« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2017, 12:53:13 am »

Solodaris-

There is no such thing as 'occasionally vegan.'

Sometimes I choose to adopt a Vegan lifestyle and that was how I chose to phrase it at the time being. Because there's always a chance I might stick to it.

Do you walk around correcting your friends and family like this too?

Have a peaceful day.

Offline Solodris

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Re: Amida is a real Buddha?
« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2017, 01:42:10 am »
Ficus Religiosa, you should make a thread about Veganism and expound different perspectives on animal suffering and maybe even point out how that might affect the notion of our own suffering at some point. Sort of an introduction thread to the Vegan lifestyle. That would be interesting to read about.

Offline francis

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Re: Amida is a real Buddha?
« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2017, 02:18:43 am »

To be a successful vegan:

1. Eat fruit in the morning with starch. Fruit should be eaten separately from vegetables. One pear, one banana and 3 dates with a puffed rice cracker can work.

2. Eat vegetables, beans, starch etc. for lunch and dinner.

3. Eat many colors of fruits and vegetables because the colors represent different minerals and vitamins.

4. Always eat some starch with each meal because eating only fruit and vegetables will cause diarrhea.

5. Use nutritional yeast sprinkled on meals, in soups, on pasta etc. as a wonderful source of vitamin B12.

6. Have one plant based vitamin D3 capsule every day. These are available at www.puritanspride.com.

7. If you want, you can buy a synthetic sublingual B12 to squirt under your tongue too. 


That is it. It is easy to do, fun and a great learning experience. The vegan cornucopia gets better and better almost daily. There are vegan cheeses, vegan ice creams, vegan beef jerky and other amazing food products. One can buy vegan shampoo, vegan toothpaste, vegan laundry detergent, vegan dish soap, vegan hand soap, vegan shower soap and vegan creme rinse too. One quickly learns that the vegan products are the best.

Also there is a vegan restaurant finder at www.happycow.net. Its data bank is world wide. Or you can just type in 'vegan' to the search engine of google maps.


Hi there again Ficus religiosa,

I’m not sure what qualification you have to be giving dietary advice, but you might want to talk to a dietician before giving out poor and potentially dangerous health advice.

‘The B12 found in nutritional yeast is actually a supplement and not natural.

Yeast, like plants, does not make vitamin B12.  Only bacteria can produce B12.

Don’t assume that all nutritional yeast contains B12.  Make sure that you read the label and find out how much B12 is really in your nutritional yeast so you can make sure you are meeting the RDA for B12.

The current RDA for B12 is 2.4 mcg daily (for healthy adults), though many experts are now pushing to increase the RDA to 4mcg daily.

The fact, that people need synthetic sublingual B12 supplements means veganism is not a natural diet.

Very few foods contain vitamin D. Synthesis of vitamin D (specifically cholecalciferol, vitamin D3) in the skin is the major natural source of the vitamin. Vitamin D is made in the skin from cholesterol dependent on sun exposure (specifically UVB radiation).

Vegans also increase the risk of iron deficiency anaemia, a potentially serious condition in which the body does not make enough oxygen-bearing red blood cells.

Iron is available in two forms: heme and non-heme. Heme iron is the most easily used by your body and is found in meat, poultry, and fish. Non-heme iron is found in vegetables — your body can still use it, just not as easily.

The bottom line is people have to eat a lot more plants (kg’s) to get their average daily intake of iron, compared to people who have a balanced diet the includes meat (grams).’

And, you might want to include a few more pulses in your vegan diet.

Source google.


"Enlightenment, for a wave in the ocean, is the moment the wave realises it is water." - Thich Nhat Hanh

Offline stillpointdancer

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Re: Amida is a real Buddha?
« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2017, 03:11:37 am »
Stillpointdancer---
No you can not be compassionate towards animals that you eat. Such disillusion!
Seriously, are you going to tell me a leaf of lettuce suffers the same as an animal? Is this your deluded understanding? Really?
You do not like hearing about the blood dripping from your lips after lunch? Then do not eat meat!
Go vegan!

"No you can not be compassionate towards animals that you eat. Such disillusion!"
You still don't get it do you Ficus? You don't give a fig for anything but your own viewpoint. The more you slag off people, the further you are from enlightenment. The more you obsess about veganism, the more you cling on to that which is holding you back. Let it go and follow the path. You have no idea of the compassion I have for things. You don't know me, know nothing of my background, but presume to know everything.

"Seriously, are you going to tell me a leaf of lettuce suffers the same as an animal? Is this your deluded understanding? Really?
Did I say 'same'? But yes, every living thing suffers. My understanding comes from insight. I have no idea where yours comes from, but my guess it is from the leavings of others. Try thinking about the suffering of each living leaf as you grind it in your teeth, and then try your hardest to raise whatever minuscule compassion you have in your heart towards it. Then you might make progress.

"You do not like hearing about the blood dripping from your lips after lunch? Then do not eat meat!"
Couldn't care less about words as such, particularly from people such as yourself, but just wanted to warn you that the vitriolic filth that lies in your heart is holding you back from progress along the path. Try to be more compassionate to all living things, people, animals, plants, and those of other categories.

My perfect world would be where we manufactured all of our food so that neither animal nor plant suffers. I would never eat what came from living things again. So there!
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

Offline francis

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Re: Amida is a real Buddha?
« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2017, 03:12:41 am »
Francis,

You left last time throwing the heterodox bomb into the chat room and then ran away as fast as you could. You have already shown yourself to be a bane for this chat room discussion because you did not get the thread to do what you want and because with the example you set, it is difficult to trust your Buddhism.

I do not trust a word you say about diet nor Buddhism.

How long have you been vegan?

Everything you wrote about iron and  B12 and nutritional yeast is rubbish. I do not care if it came from Google.

You and LetGo (who has shown us all what he means by Let Go quite graphically) and IdleChater have trolled away your own credibility.

I truly think IdleChater's heart can be reached.

I think LetGo needs to get over it.

I think you Francis, choose to misuse your sharp intelligence to misguide people.

The Buddha is clear about what happens to people who choose to misguide others.


Hi again Ficus religiosa,

I didn't run away,  I chose not to inflame the situation.

Let’s be clear, your vegan diet is not a heathy diet. Not only because of inaccurate information about vitamin B12 and D3, but also because it lack pulses, which are an excellent source of protein.

As far as pulses go, soybeans are the holy grail because they have a complete amino acid profile, but hey not a mention.  Could that possibly be because vast tracts of rainforest are cleared to grow soybeans for vegans?

As you say, the Buddha is clear about what happens to people that choose to misguide others.

And, you might also want to try refuting people’s arguments instead of going the ad-hom.


« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 07:34:27 am by francis, Reason: spelling »
"Enlightenment, for a wave in the ocean, is the moment the wave realises it is water." - Thich Nhat Hanh

Offline LetGo

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Re: Amida is a real Buddha?
« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2017, 06:24:44 am »


If we are to recite "Amrita" then we would be in keeping with the Vedas, the Mahabarata, the Vishnu Purana, and the Upanishads, not necessarily Buddha Dharma. The Buddha Dharma redefines "Amrita" as "recollection" (anussati - specifically "kāyagatāsati" or recollection of the impermanence of the body) in the Nakulapita Sutta. "Amrita" is not the term in the Sanskrit versions of the Pure Land sutras, nor was it the term translated into Chinese. Accusations of racism really only apply for those that follow Sanatana Dharma, who say that Sanskrit is a holy language that must be pronounced properly, and not those that follow Buddha Dharma, who denied the idea of a holy language that requires a perfect pronunciation (he literally says this in various places in the Tripitaka). The East Asian Pure Land version of Amitabha's name are "best effort" transliterations by people who are not Sanskrit speakers and their recitations are not a form of racism.

First and foremost in Right View is knowledge with regard to stress, knowledge with regard to the origination of stress, knowledge with regard to the cessation of stress, knowledge with regard to the way of practice leading to the cessation of stress: This is called right view. - DN 22. Stress/suffering/Dukkha is recognizing that all compounded things are impermanent. Understanding the origination of stress means understanding that suffering is born of ignorance and that this entire mass of stress (the 5 skandhas) come about due to ignorance. This view is completely inconsistent with the idea of Trimūrti concept of supreme divinity from the Puranas, where Brahma typically identifies the Creator, Vishnu the Preserver, and Shiva the Destroyer. There is no Brahman or Absolute in BuddhaDharma, especially Mahayana Buddha Dharma, where all phenomena is said to be empty of an intrinsic essence. In fact, one of the provisions in the typical Buddhist refuge ceremony is the vow to never take refuge in heterodox gods, such as Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva (explicitly named in my own ceremony); which is why I've taken such issue with the assertion that Vishnu and Amitabha are somehow related/the same. The concept of Sukhavati being the same as Loka is somewhat disputed by the Shorter Sukhavativyuha, where it is made clear that Sukhavati is the product of Amitabha's enlightened mind & great vows, rather than some substantially existing place. (On a side note, the Sukhavati Sutra mentions jeweled nets, but these are not explicitly a reference to Indra's net).

The idea that one is destined for hell automatically due to killing is refuted by the Angulimala Sutta. Angulimala was a serial killer, who had killed hundreds of people, but still met the Buddha and achieved Arhatship through the Dharma.

The idea that the Buddha drank tainted water is refuted by the Maha-parinibbana Sutta (DN 16). The Buddha died after eating tainted Sukara-maddava (pig's tenders) served by Cunda. In fact, Ananda balked at serving the Buddha tainted water in his final moments and was severely chastised for it later.

One of the biggest criticisms against Buddhists by the Jains was that they ate meat, with specific proscriptions given in the Vinaya of the types of meat to be avoided. The Jains chided the Buddhists saying that they would eat a baby if there was no intent behind the killing & cooking of the baby - a reference to their accepting whatever meat was given on alms rounds.

The worst part of this troll is how easily so many of the assertions are refuted by the actual Sutras, both Nikaya/Agama and Mahayana sutras.

The questions about the authenticity of the Shurangama Sutra are well documented by Ronald Epstein in the following presentation:
http://online.sfsu.edu/rone/Buddhism/authenticity.htm
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 08:34:27 am by LetGo »

Offline IdleChater

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Re: Amida is a real Buddha?
« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2017, 09:05:54 am »
Fig's rhetoric reminds me of anti-abortion zealots.

Yeah, it also reminds me of Zealot Vegan Buddhists.  Tedious.  Wrong.

Offline Solodris

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Re: Amida is a real Buddha?
« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2017, 09:30:55 am »
Yeah, it also reminds me of Zealot Vegan Buddhists.  Tedious.  Wrong.

So, you'd figure you perpetuate a behavior that doesn't end it's cyclic existence in suffering?

This conversation is void. Non-dualism is the freedom from suffering of confusion, since it releases the ego to find the self as supreme authority.

Tell me, if an opinion is stated, is it a skillful or an unskillful act to perpetuate statements in cyclic argumentation? This is suffering.

If an opinion is stated, and it causes aversion, conflict to arise, should we abandon or acquire these behaviors in perpetual motion?

There was an origination of the phenomena of unskillful speech causing friction, now, it is the duties of Buddhists to reduce the friction, that's how you learn to cease cyclic behavior. Only teaching the way of the path to those misguided, is the one path we are all walking.

Offline LetGo

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Re: Amida is a real Buddha?
« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2017, 11:51:15 am »

Sadly, now LetGo is also misguiding people with false information because of his greed to win.

He spreads ignorance and falsity and can not be trusted.

As I have written clearly, Vegan Amrita Prabha Buddha is his NAME.

I seriously cannot believe the admins of this site are allowing this to continue.
You are flat out lying and spreading nonsense.
The sutras I sent say "Amrita Prabha" NOWHERE in the teachings you dishonest fool.
Here is a copy of the Amitabha Sutra in Sanskrit:
http://www.nembutsu.info/music/sanskrit.pdf
Here it is in romanized Alphabet:
http://www.nembutsu.info/music/smallersukhavarti.pdf
Here it is chanted in Sanskrit:
http://www.nembutsu.info/music/Chanting.MP3

"Amrita Prabha" is NOWHERE IN THE SUTRA you liar.
Anybody who wants can read it or listen to it for themselves to see what a lying piece of trash you are.

"Monks, these two slander the Tathagata. Which two? He who explains what was not said or spoken by the Tathagata as said or spoken by the Tathagata. And he who explains what was said or spoken by the Tathagata as not said or spoken by the Tathagata. These are two who slander the Tathagata."


Offline LetGo

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Re: Amida is a real Buddha?
« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2017, 11:58:14 am »
LetGo


You have only posted Japanese Sutra sites. You are a fool. You are a Japanese racist. You mislead others.
Are you so stupid to think just because a website url has a meaning in Japanese that the site is Japanese?
Now who's racist?
You're a stupid racist liar spreading misinformation and slandering the Buddha's Dharma.

 


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