Author Topic: feelings  (Read 2193 times)

Offline Ged

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feelings
« on: December 27, 2017, 07:35:57 pm »
Hello, I am not sure if I have got this right, but is it true that Buddhism teaches us that feelings are not caused by external factors ?

Eg if my wife insults me should I try to not feel hurt ?

 If I find her constantly annoying should I try to ignore these feelings ?

Sorry if I have got this wrong !

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: feelings
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2017, 08:18:21 pm »
Feelings are caused by an external factor, such as sounds, as follows:
Quote
Bhikkhus, dependent on the ear and sounds, ear-consciousness arises. the meeting of the three is contact; with contact as condition there arises a feeling felt as pleasant or painful or neither-painful-nor-pleasant. When one is touched by a pleasant feeling, if one delights in it, welcomes it, and remains holding to it, then the underlying tendency to lust lies within one. When one is touched by a painful feeling, if one sorrows, grieves and laments, weeps beating one’s breast and becomes distraught, then the underlying tendency to aversion lies within one[/u]. When one is touched by a neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling, if one does not understand as it actually is the origination, the disappearance, the gratification, the danger, and the escape in regard to that feeling, then the underlying tendency to ignorance lies within one. Bhikkhus, that one shall here and now make an end of suffering without abandoning the underlying tendency to lust for pleasant feeling, without abolishing the underlying tendency to aversion towards painful feeling, without extirpating the underlying tendency to ignorance in regard to neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling, without abandoning ignorance and arousing true knowledge—this is impossible.

https://suttacentral.net/en/mn148
[/size]


However, suffering is caused by an internal factor, namely, craving or aversion . Buddhism identifies the cause of suffering as craving rather than feeling. Your annoyance is a form craving or aversion rather than a feeling.

Buddhism teaches you should endure/tolerate hurtful words, feeling their painful sensation, but not get angry or annoyed:
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And what are the fermentations to be abandoned by tolerating? There is the case where a monk, reflecting appropriately, endures. He tolerates cold, heat, hunger, & thirst; the touch of flies, mosquitoes, wind, sun, & reptiles; ill-spoken, unwelcome words & bodily feelings that, when they arise, are painful, racking, sharp, piercing, disagreeable, displeasing, & menacing to life. The fermentations, vexation, or fever that would arise if he were not to tolerate these things do not arise for him when he tolerates them. These are called the fermentations to be abandoned by tolerating.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.002.than.html


Buddhism teaches the ideal of a woman is domination, as follows:
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A man is a woman’s aim, her quest is for adornments, her mainstay is sons, her desire is to be without a co-wife and her ideal is domination.

https://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/wh208_Nyanaponika_Bodhi_Anguttara-Nikaya-Anthology--II.html#S28TheAimsofPeople


Buddhism teaches a husband must give his wife authority in the home:

Quote
In five ways, young householder, should a wife as the West be ministered to by a husband:

(i) by being courteous to her,
(ii) by not despising her,
(iii) by being faithful to her,
(iv) by handing over authority to her,
(v) by providing her with adornments.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.31.0.nara.html


Buddhism says there are seven types of wife:

Quote
1. Murderous wife; a wife who does not live happily with her husband, who disparages him and thinks of destroying him.

2. Thieving wife; a wife who squanders all her husband's wealth.

3. Domineering wife; a wife who is lazy and doesn't attend to her duties; she is foul-mouthed and vulgar, and likes to dominate her husband.

4. Motherly wife; a wife who looks to her husband's well-being and attends to his needs, taking care of the money that he acquires and seeing that it is not squandered.

5. Sisterly wife; a wife who respects and loves her husband as a younger sister loves her brother; she is gentle and deferential, and tends to agree with her husband.

6. Comradely wife; a wife who is like a friend, loyal to her husband; when she greets her husband she is happy; she deports and conducts herself well; she has fine manners and is a friend who readily shares her husband's thoughts and feelings.

7. Servile wife; a wife who lives under her husband's thumb, and who passively endures his beatings and abuse.

https://www.mahidol.ac.th/budsir/Part2_3.htm#13


Buddhism teaches, in family life, truthful yet patient communication is the most important quality:

Quote
C. The couple sharing in goodness: the four principles for leading the household life (gharavasa-dhamma) can be used by a couple in the following ways:

1. Sacca: truthfulness; being truthful and faithful to each other in thoughts, speech and deeds.

2. Dama: training; exercising restraint, training themselves to correct faults, resolve differences, adapt to each other and improve themselves.

3. Khanti: patience; being firm, stable and patient; not reacting impulsively to each other's affronts; enduring difficulties and hardships and overcoming obstacles together.

4. Caga: sacrifice; being thoughtful, able to give up personal comfort for the sake of one's partner by, for example, foregoing sleep in order to nurse him or her in sickness; also being kind and generous, not uncharitable, to the relatives and friends of one's partner.

https://www.mahidol.ac.th/budsir/Part2_3.htm#13


Therefore, you can consider gently communicating to your wife how certain words of her make you feel; possibly in writing to avoid open conflict. Ensure to focus upon how you feel. Example: "I feel very hurt when this is said to me". You must focus on how you personally feel because women generally cannot admit they can do anything wrong. This is why feminism has self-destructed many women. They go from error to error and if anyone tries to help or rectify their errors, they just throw more temper tantrums & then cry.

 :namaste:

If this doesn't work, Buddhism teaches angry women are either 'reborn' in hell or 'reborn' ugly due to anger:

Quote
Here, student, some woman ... is angry, much given to rage; even when little is said, she is furious, angry, ill-disposed, resentful, she shows ill-temper, hate and surliness. Due to having performed and completed such kammas (actions), on the dissolution of the body, after death, she reappears in a state of deprivation, in hell... If instead she comes to the human state, she is ugly wherever she is reborn. This is the way that leads to ugliness, that is to say, to be furious, angry, ill-disposed, resentful, and to show ill-temper, hate and surliness.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.135.nymo.html


Quote
Here, Mallikā, a certain woman, is angry, often irritable. Even over a trivial remark, she is cross, shaken, vexed, stubborn and shows her temper, anger and sulkiness. She is not a giver of food, drinks, cloth, vehicles, garlands, scents, ointments, beddings, dwelling or lightings, to recluses or brahmins. Furthermore, she is jealous in her heart; jealous of others‟ receiving gains, honour, respect, esteem, homage and worship; she is vengeful and holds grudges. If she falls away & returns to such a state, wherever she is reborn, she is ugly, deformed, of very mean appearance, and she is poor, having few things, of little wealth and little influence.

AN 4.197 http://awake.kiev.ua/dhamma/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/4Anguttara-Nikaya/Anguttara2/4-catukkanipata/020-mahavaggo-e.html
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 09:21:23 pm by VisuddhiRaptor »

Offline Anemephistus

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Re: feelings
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2017, 10:52:27 pm »
Wow... I... Just... VisuddhiRaptor, are you abiding comfortably and okay? Seriously, that's... Really intense... and it makes some pretty broad statements about 51% of the earth's human population.

Quote
You must focus on how you personally feel because women generally cannot admit they can do anything wrong. This is why feminism has self-destructed many women. They go from error to error and if anyone tries to help or rectify their errors, they just throw more temper tantrums & then cry.

 :eek:

To the OP:  Our emotional feelings are often the result of internal responses, those internal responses are often manifest in a given moment because of the way we perceive external (not mental) factors. Our mind does this by default but the default reaction it has is not as accurate as the trained understanding which can be created through study and practice.

We have a lot of foundations underlying our many ways of thinking, it takes a lot of time to sort through all of the factors which give rise to our perceptions and notions and help is always good. The teaching does provide answers about the causation of suffering. It is somewhat important to understand that it takes a lot of time and effort to apply the solutions it offers.

If you are having trouble with your wife and are constantly annoyed and feel like you are being emotionally hurt and insulted, go to a professional and seek guidance, your question is phrased in a way which shows you are trying to endure Suffering but you are not familiar with the way that this question is approached.

  I would hate to see you strung along while you try to develop the skills that you would need to solve this issue when there are people who can guide you through the process of finding a solution much better and faster than you will be able to achieve results online.

If you are not familiar with the eight fold path which leads to the cessation of suffering I highly suggest researching it and reading transmissions about how you can apply it. But don't lose your marriage in the meantime, seek counseling and assistance from the resources you have available.


Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: feelings
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2017, 04:17:31 am »
Wow... I... Just... VisuddhiRaptor, are you abiding comfortably and okay? Seriously, that's... Really intense... and it makes some pretty broad statements about 51% of the earth's human population.

Obviously, you don't see the world the way the Buddha saw the world. The suttas say:

Quote
174. Blind is the world; here only a few possess insight. Only a few, like birds escaping from the net, go to realms of bliss.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/dhp/dhp.13.budd.html



 :teehee:

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: feelings
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2017, 04:26:43 am »
If you are having trouble with your wife and are constantly annoyed and feel like you are being emotionally hurt and insulted, go to a professional and seek guidance

I think only a person what has never practised Buddhism would recommend another to visit a "professional". The Buddhist teachings are the greatest gift. In my personal life, I try to help every person rather than recommend they see a "professional", who are generally professional money makers & pharmaceutical drug dealers. 

I would hate to see you strung along while you try to develop the skills that you would need to solve this issue when there are people who can guide you through the process of finding a solution much better and faster than you will be able to achieve results online.

I think Buddhism provides the best results.

If you are not familiar with the eight fold path which leads to the cessation of suffering I highly suggest researching it and reading transmissions about how you can apply it. But don't lose your marriage in the meantime, seek counseling and assistance from the resources you have available.

To recommend anyone to a "professional" indicates lack of knowledge of the eightfold path. The reality of your posts is a lack of compassion or willingness to help another due to fear &, most of all, a lack of wisdom & life experience.

 :chill:

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: feelings
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2017, 04:39:32 am »
Eg if my wife insults me should I try to not feel hurt ?

In summary, Buddhism teaches a successful marriage will occur when both spouses live according to the five precepts, as follows:

Quote
If both husband & wife want to see one another not only in the present time but also in the future, they should be in tune [with each other] in faith, in tune in virtue, in tune in generosity and in tune in wisdom.

Husband & wife, both of them
   having conviction,
   being responsive,
   being restrained,
   living by the Dhamma,
   addressing each other
   with loving words
:
they benefit in manifold ways.
   To them comes bliss.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.055.than.html

When one or two people in a marriage do not follow the five precepts, which includes not engaging in pleasant speech, a marriage will be problematic, as described here: https://suttacentral.net/en/an4.53

Focusing on internal feelings & reactions probably won't solve the issue (unless you can not react at all to your wife, which might cause her to question her own behaviour). The issue is probably primarily a "moral" or "ethical" issue. Your wife should not insult you and you should not get angry at your wife. Both you & your wife must realise a marriage is not for the purpose of causing suffering to each other (otherwise, it will not last).

Kind regards  <3



« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 04:45:53 am by VisuddhiRaptor »

Offline stillpointdancer

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Re: feelings
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2017, 04:46:35 am »
Hello, I am not sure if I have got this right, but is it true that Buddhism teaches us that feelings are not caused by external factors ?

Eg if my wife insults me should I try to not feel hurt ?

 If I find her constantly annoying should I try to ignore these feelings ?

Sorry if I have got this wrong !
It's a bit more complicated than that. Stuff happens and impinges on us, provoking an initial response that arises before we are conscious of it. What happens next is what we can work on. Our conscious response is via the feelings of hurt, anger, compassion, and so on which arise as a next step. What we do about our feelings is up to us.

One way into the whole thing is to look at those feelings as something that we are responsible for. Hence the idea that we are responsible for our own emotional responses to situations: 'She didn't make me angry. My response was one of anger that arose in me.' The feeling may be perfectly legitimate, but is it helpful to go with that anger in that situation?

So what we can is not to ignore such feelings but to work on them in a mindful way, always being aware that we can follow the path and develop the ability to modify how we respond in any situation.
“You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet, still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet.” Franz Kafka

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: feelings
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2017, 04:50:18 am »
Hence the idea that we are responsible for our own emotional responses to situations: 'She didn't make me angry. My response was one of anger that arose in me.' The feeling may be perfectly legitimate, but is it helpful to go with that anger in that situation?

So what we can is not to ignore such feelings but to work on them in a mindful way, always being aware that we can follow the path and develop the ability to modify how we respond in any situation.

Well explained.  :namaste:

Offline IdleChater

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Re: feelings
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2017, 07:26:02 am »
Hello, I am not sure if I have got this right, but is it true that Buddhism teaches us that feelings are not caused by external factors ?

Eg if my wife insults me should I try to not feel hurt ?

 If I find her constantly annoying should I try to ignore these feelings ?

Sorry if I have got this wrong !

No, you haven't got it "wrong".  In Buddhist teachings there really is no "external" to consider, but that's really not your issue.  Your issue is your relationship to your wife.

If you're feelings are a problem, some Shamatha meditation can help some, but don't use it to pretend there isn't a problem with your marriage.

Anemephistus is correct.  You could use professional help.  Get with a marriage counselor if you want to save your marriage, or a divorce lawyer if you don't.  It's that simple. 



« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 07:34:36 am by IdleChater »

Offline IdleChater

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Re: feelings
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2017, 07:30:41 am »
Wow... I... Just... VisuddhiRaptor, are you abiding comfortably and okay? Seriously, that's... Really intense... and it makes some pretty broad statements about 51% of the earth's human population.

Yeah, our friend VR does get pretty intense.

To VR:

Hey @VR ... another question for you.  Have you ever been married?  I'm betting no.  Did your parents have a successful, loving marriage?  I'm betting no.

Anyway, you really need to lighten up a bit.  Maybe a lot.  It's not too late to get an invite to a great New Year's party.


Offline Anemephistus

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Re: feelings
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2017, 03:32:50 pm »
Wow... I... Just... VisuddhiRaptor, are you abiding comfortably and okay? Seriously, that's... Really intense... and it makes some pretty broad statements about 51% of the earth's human population.

Obviously, you don't see the world the way the Buddha saw the world. The suttas say:

Quote
174. Blind is the world; here only a few possess insight. Only a few, like birds escaping from the net, go to realms of bliss.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/dhp/dhp.13.budd.html


 :teehee:

VisuddhiRaptor, I do not think it is good to assume so much. You have made several assumptions I would like to address:

You have mentioned your assumptions about my life experience, in this case my experience tells me three things about this post:

 First that the poster does not have monk, nun, or layperson that is present in their situation to help oversee applying properly the principles which will help the situation. (Or they would have directed this question to them)

Second: That the underlying understanding of those principles is currently limited (the question is very basic) and that learning to apply them while it will eventually free the marriage of problems if both people fully engage in the right effort,  the poster is under a constant frustration which may make that very difficult. Which is saying nothing of the other person who might have no interest in doing so and would require interaction with to both determine and engage them.

 Third: None of us are actually familiar enough with this person and their situation to offer to direct their energy properly and we were not asked to. We were asked about the nature of arsing emotion, and how to deal with it and weather or not it was internal or external in nature. This post has placed four sentences of a description of the trouble to specify a question which has several underlying principles which are notions worthy of addressing. The full problem cannot be discerned without a full dialog that would require more communication unless we rely on assumptions.

Since the person is having marriage problems, and since they have a problem that it would be better to be present to fix, and since they have not demonstrated an access to religious resources which are sparse in many areas I suggest a professional because while the Buddha is wiser than anyone they will find, full enlightenment is not requisite to help others with life troubles. What is on offer directly may be better than determining a course on their own since I do not know their capacity or underlying foundations of thought.   

I would share that my life experience has also included being arrogant and judgmental, I have felt that others are less than me and been subject to the frustration and suffering that creates, and I still am in some ways. Being unkind and course when speaking to others was always a hallmark of this for me. You assume to know how the Buddha sees the world in your statements. His words were direct, kind and fostered understanding. Either you are correct and you see the world as he does, and choose to disregard the principles of compassion and loving kindness in your words, or you do not have the understanding which you are professing to have to a level which is very intimate with such a statement.

I did not question the quotes you provided, but I have read the way you write to people and it seems unlikely that you are applying some of the more basic and simple principles such as right speech when you choose to say some of these things. Fully in your place, I would act the same because we are not inherently different, but I would ask you to consider whether or not being adversarial is proper intention and right speech.

I am concerned for you because you say that:

 
Quote
You must focus on how you personally feel because women generally cannot admit they can do anything wrong. This is why feminism has self-destructed many women. They go from error to error and if anyone tries to help or rectify their errors, they just throw more temper tantrums & then cry.

This is a sweeping assertion about a large part of the worlds population, based entirely on their sex organs. What Sublime state showed you this very large scale understanding? How do you arrive at this conclusion? You have spoken as understanding just over half of the species and how they generally react. This looks to me like bigotry, assumption, and arrogance. Perhaps you could point out the teaching that says this? Or the one that you interpreted as leading to this understanding?

Telling this sentiment about women to a person who is having difficulties is like giving them poison. "assume she cannot see her error or will not take responsibility, if you try the direct approach she will cry and throw a temper tantrum. "  what other thought could this make? This thinking also indicates men are inherently superior because the converse of this logic is that men do not behave this way and that the poster is the one who correctly understands the problem which should be addressed.  Neither seems obviously true to me, but I am uncertain that this is contingent on my view of the world being in any accordance with the Buddha or not as I am not fit to make that distinction.

You have also forgotten or choose to disregard that in many countries both people in this equation may be women and that the OP did not specify. Which is another assumption.  Recently though I did see a post from you which implicitly expressed your feelings about homosexual relations so I can guess as to why you did not naturally conclude this was a possibility. 

My life includes being married for many years, having a child who is going to college, working a difficult and dangerous job and putting a lot of effort into the world so that it becomes a better place if I am successful in my endeavors.  My relationship with my wife was difficult, we used many resources to find peace with each other and I recall that books, teachings, and direct influence from others were very useful.

Quote
I think only a person what has never practised Buddhism would recommend another to visit a "professional". The Buddhist teachings are the greatest gift. In my personal life, I try to help every person rather than recommend they see a "professional", who are generally professional money makers & pharmaceutical drug dealers.

So medication is bad...You spoke of life experience. I have seen a great deal of suffering, some of which has been very violent and harmful, some of this has happened because of biological problems in brain chemistry which individuals are suspected of being born with. I almost elaborated on one specific instance that came to mind, but it seems inappropriate for a place which is trying to foster understanding instead of spreading suffering. Someone who read the example would certainly be unhappy at the transmission of what occurred, what is important is that mental health for a healthy mind which functions properly is not the same as mental health for a person who has genetic or biological problems which result in behavior that understanding cannot control. Of course it is hard to tell the difference without a doctor.

You are polite when others agree with you, but rude and derisive when they do not. Why? You imply that you know how the Buddha sees, but seem blind to many possibilities that you rely on assumptions to fill. You are very familiar with scripture, in fact I would even say you have an impressive knowledge of it, perhaps you have studied often. While you laugh at me with emogi I am concerned for you, you have a lot of knowledge but you seem resistant to speaking kindly. I am not great at it either, perhaps we should start a thread and try to work on this together? I am decent at practice, but don't have your knowledge of the suttas, you don't seem to notice the condition but have all the information you seem to require. You have  a lot to offer but people must hear it and the discernment must be correct, for them to do so you must say it in a way that is heard. I say a lot about my experience but would always like more understanding and direction to apply, what little I do know has done wonders for my life and the lives of those around me and I am also certainly blind to flaws which I project but do not see.

If I start a thread about speaking kindly, and properly transmitting ideas to each other, would you join the work of realizing it?

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: feelings
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2017, 04:53:52 pm »
VisuddhiRaptor, I do not think it is good to assume so much. You have made several assumptions I would like to address:

 I have noticed your rather long wordy posts here.

Quote
First that the poster does not have monk, nun, or layperson that is present in their situation to help oversee applying properly the principles which will help the situation. (Or they would have directed this question to them)

The person can discuss whatever others post & start to think about their situation.

Quote
Second: That the underlying understanding of those principles is currently limited (the question is very basic) and that learning to apply them while it will eventually free the marriage of problems if both people fully engage in the right effort,  the poster is under a constant frustration which may make that very difficult. Which is saying nothing of the other person who might have no interest in doing so and would require interaction with to both determine and engage them.

The person has made a brief post & can explain more about their situation in further discussion. It is you that is making rigid assumptions about a very brief post.

Quote
Third: None of us are actually familiar enough with this person and their situation to offer to direct their energy properly and we were not asked to. We were asked about the nature of arsing emotion, and how to deal with it and weather or not it was internal or external in nature. This post has placed four sentences of a description of the trouble to specify a question which has several underlying principles which are notions worthy of addressing. The full problem cannot be discerned without a full dialog that would require more communication unless we rely on assumptions.

Irrelevant. Communication has a purpose.

Quote
Since the person is having marriage problems, and since they have a problem that it would be better to be present to fix, and since they have not demonstrated an access to religious resources which are sparse in many areas I suggest a professional because while the Buddha is wiser than anyone they will find, full enlightenment is not requisite to help others with life troubles. What is on offer directly may be better than determining a course on their own since I do not know their capacity or underlying foundations of thought.   

Irrelevant.

Quote
I would share that my life experience has also included being arrogant and judgmental...

I do not consider myself to be arrogant and judgmental.

Quote
I have felt that others are less than me

I think the issue here is having an open discussion about ordinary life problems.

Quote
and been subject to the frustration and suffering that creates, and I still am in some ways.

Buddhism & human suffering do not create frustration for me; either on the internet or in ordinary human contact. I often talk to people who have lots of suffering.

Quote
You assume to know how the Buddha sees the world in your statements. His words were direct, kind and fostered understanding.

Well, it was not me that chose to ignore the Buddha's words but instead focused on modern left-wing ideas contrary to Buddhism.

Quote
Either you are correct and you see the world as he does,

I think I am correct.

Quote
and choose to disregard the principles of compassion and loving kindness in your words, or you do not have the understanding which you are professing to have to a level which is very intimate with such a statement.

Compassion is not accepting everything people do in an attempt to create no friction. I think my posts were compassionate, i.e., having an intention to help alleviate a marital problem.

Quote
I did not question the quotes you provided, but I have read the way you write to people and it seems unlikely that you are applying some of the more basic and simple principles such as right speech when you choose to say some of these things.

My mode of speech is irrelevant. What is relevant is the Buddhist teachings, which you seemed to be against or otherwise do not know how to apply. The questioner has a very basic problem, namely, a marriage lacking in some basic virtues.

Quote
Fully in your place, I would act the same because we are not inherently different, but I would ask you to consider whether or not being adversarial is proper intention and right speech.

I think we are very different.  I do not tell others to see a professional; unless they have a mental illness; and even then I often direct them to a Dhamma centre; for metta atmosphere. Whatever a professional would eventually advise in a marital problem, after taking lots of money, is exactly the same as the Buddha taught, namely: training in pleasant & respectful communication skills.

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I am concerned for you because you say that:

Your concern is unnecessary.

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You must focus on how you personally feel because women generally   :curtain:cannot admit they can do anything wrong.

Correct. In this situation, the man should not start blaming the woman & fault finding the woman but first communicate to her how he feels. The man must show his vulnerability & suffering to her.

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This is why feminism has self-destructed many women. They go from error to error and if anyone tries to help or rectify their errors, they just throw more temper tantrums & then cry.

Correct. This is generally very true. 

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This is a sweeping assertion about a large part of the worlds population, based entirely on their sex organs.

Your views here are not necessarily Buddhist but sound left-wing or Cultural Marxist. Women have different sexual apparatus to men, including hormones & emotions. Women & men are generally not the same.

Quote
What Sublime state showed you this very large scale understanding? How do you arrive at this conclusion?

Observing reality & most of the women I personally know.

Quote
This looks to me like bigotry, assumption, and arrogance.

Definitely not. The Buddha provided teachings specific to women. The Buddha was not a bigot or a Cultural Marxist but discerned difference (MN 12).

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Perhaps you could point out the teaching that says this? Or the one that you interpreted as leading to this understanding?

I already did; which said "a woman's ideal is domination". Or the Vinaya, which forbids nuns from censuring monks due to their disposition towards domineeringness & fault finding.

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Telling this sentiment about women to a person who is having difficulties is like giving them poison. "assume she cannot see her error or will not take responsibility, if you try the direct approach she will cry and throw a temper tantrum. " 

I was merely suggesting to the OP to take care. My advice was correct, namely, focus upon how you personally feel without attacking your wife. If he expressed how he feels, the wife may come to a realisation of her cruelty.

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what other thought could this make? This thinking also indicates men are inherently superior because the converse of this logic is that men do not behave this way and that the poster is the one who correctly understands the problem which should be addressed.

Wrong. If I advised the man to express his suffering. How is that superiority? I merely expressed difference, namely, men generally admit their faults more easily than women. One must be very delicate & sensitive in addressing a woman's faults.

 
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Neither seems obviously true to me, but I am uncertain that this is contingent on my view of the world being in any accordance with the Buddha or not as I am not fit to make that distinction.

Correct. In my personal opinion, it was improper to dismiss the man from your presence & send him to a professional parasite. Eventually, professional help may be required to get the wife involved but, for now, this forum is open for the man to talk, anonymously. No harm. Nothing lost. At worst, nothing gained.

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You have also forgotten or choose to disregard that in many countries both people in this equation may be women and that the OP did not specify.

As suspected, a left-wing Cultural Marxist that worships LGBT. LGBT is a fringe community thus they should be aware people will not readily assume they are LGBT in an anonymous setting. It seems like your whole world revolves around LGBT.

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Which is another assumption.  Recently though I did see a post from you which implicitly expressed your feelings about homosexual relations so I can guess as to why you did not naturally conclude this was a possibility. 

I don't recall any posts, apart from condemning promiscuous homosexual sex by gurus with students. As for committed homosexual relationships, this falls within the sphere of Buddhist conduct. All sexual promiscuity & exploitation is against Buddhist principles, be it heterosexual or homosexual.

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My life includes being married for many years, having a child who is going to college, working a difficult and dangerous job and putting a lot of effort into the world so that it becomes a better place if I am successful in my endeavors.  My relationship with my wife was difficult, we used many resources to find peace with each other and I recall that books, teachings, and direct influence from others were very useful.

Irrelevant. What is relevant is abandoning someone who was asking for help.

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So medication is bad...

Often, yes. 25% of Western women over 40 are on antidepressants, including many I personally know. Lots of this in unnecessary. It often comes from inability to admit the error of their past ways & the terror of facing their own pain.

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You spoke of life experience. I have seen a great deal of suffering, some of which has been very violent and harmful, some of this has happened because of biological problems in brain chemistry which individuals are suspected of being born with.

You are taking a Cultural Marxist position again by viewing the whole world in terms of minorities. LGBT is a minority. Brain chemistry issues requiring medication is a minority. The current medication epidemic is not related to brain chemistry. It is related to Wrong View & a profit motive.

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I almost elaborated on one specific instance that came to mind, but it seems inappropriate for a place which is trying to foster understanding instead of spreading suffering. Someone who read the example would certainly be unhappy at the transmission of what occurred, what is important is that mental health for a healthy mind which functions properly is not the same as mental health for a person who has genetic or biological problems which result in behavior that understanding cannot control. Of course it is hard to tell the difference without a doctor.

Far too serious there. This is a chatsite. A place for people to talk.

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You are polite when others agree with you, but rude and derisive when they do not. Why?

I might post with a different style to certain members here (but definitely not to all).  :teehee:

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You are very familiar with scripture,

Indeed.

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in fact I would even say you have an impressive knowledge of it,

Well-spoken.  :jinsyx:

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While you laugh at me with emogi I am concerned for you,

I learned that from Ground & others here.  :teehee:

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you have a lot of knowledge but you seem resistant to speaking kindly.

If what I write sets your head on fire; that is not my problem. :onfire: The OP is being insulted by his wife & trying to endure this terrible feeling. Yet you cannot even tolerate a difference of opinion on an anonymous chat site?

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I am not great at it either, perhaps we should start a thread and try to work on this together?

No. Imo, you did not show compassion or, otherwise, were hyper-sensitive.

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but don't have your knowledge of the suttas

Knowledge of suttas is based in discernment rather than on study. The suttas I posted were a "mirror" rather than anything I expect anyone to follow. I more expected reactions like yours.

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You have  a lot to offer but people must hear it and the discernment must be correct, for them to do so you must say it in a way that is heard. I say a lot about my experience but would always like more understanding and direction to apply, what little I do know has done wonders for my life and the lives of those around me and I am also certainly blind to flaws which I project but do not see.

Respectfully  :namaste:, you are taking everything here far too seriously. Yes. I know the quotes & commentaries I post will set certain minds aflame...  :teehee: but I actually believe in what I post.   :namaste:

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If I start a thread about speaking kindly, and properly transmitting ideas to each other, would you join the work of realizing it?

I am more concerned with the OP (Ged).  <3

Offline IdleChater

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Re: feelings
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2017, 06:03:48 pm »
I do not consider myself to be arrogant and judgmental.

Really now?

Offline Ged

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Re: feelings
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2017, 06:24:30 pm »
Thanks for all your advice, it seems complicated, and maybe I always try to over simplify this kind of thing.

 I looked into Buddhism a few years ago as I felt I was frustrated with my life, I have wanted to live somewhere warmer for several years, maybe 30 years, but my wife wanted a child and to live here, we got close to moving abroad twice, but she never put any effort in, so it didn't happen.

I am also struggling with the idea that I should support my wife in all what I view as excesses such as spending at Christmas, socialising etc, as I would choose to spend that money on a fund to live abroad in the future.
U
Buddhism seems to advocate selflessness, hence is this a selfish thing to try to follow my dream ? And hurt my wife and daughter ?

I am not getting any younger and feel I have sacrificed a lot for them already, but this is not appreciated.
The thought of being with my wife in old age in this country makes me feel cold.


But it just a thought right, so maybe it's not true ?
I think Buddhism teaches that craving causes suffering, so does this mean I should forget the idea of moving abroad to be happy ?
Maybe if I take the plunge I won't be happy, (because life isn't satisfying ?, or maybe we just always want what we can't have??)

I also don't want my daughter to think badly of me if I left ( even though she probably doesn't think we'll of me now anyway , hard to tell as she's 19 and it's hard to tell when she is serious or joking with insults )

Finally I am an introvert and my wife is an extrovert, talks a lot about nothing in my opinion, she tries to make me go to parties when I don't want to and finds it hard to take no for an answer.
I am not sure if I just got married at a young age because that's what success looked like from society's point of view.
I don't talk to my parents as I have problems with my dad, and don't have friends apart from couples we mix with, but this feels like more of a chore sometimes so I think I would be OK on my own.

I often feel like I am trying to keep everyone happy and not upset them, maybe this comes from a want to be liked and accepted, not sure but it sometimes feels a strain.

I feel I am getting more introverted, I am not sure if this is due to getting older, or being unhappy with my situation and shutting down.

I think maybe I have always been sensitive to insults,but when my wife says  you do nothing
It hurts, as I have tried very hard over the years and been successful, this also makes me want to shut down and do as I see my wife doing, taking it easy.

I feel this will cause financial problems in the future, but why should I make all the money and get no respect or credit for that ?

When I look at her parents I see a similar pattern as her dad has wanted to move abroad for years, but now his wife is in poor health so he feels it would be selfish to do what he wants, this looks like a bleak future to me.

I have also seen a lot of Mooji videos, in which the answer to everything seems to be where do you find the you that has the problem ? Idea of no self ?, maybe this is one way to temporarily feel better, but then if there is no self this leads to a lot of confusion for my mind.
I also watches some Buddhhist society of Western Australia ones, that also advocate this approach.
I also have tried to practice gratitude, non judgement, based on Eckhart Tolles videos.
I got interested in enlightenment, however I don't think it solves any practical problems such as this ?

I have also read a lot about acceptance, so does that mean if I accept my feelings, and do not act on them, accept my situation, that is the answer ?

I also read a lot about finding your true purpose, maybe some way to meditate and dissolve the ego and find that God or the Universe has some purpose for me to fulfil some greater good ?

All this just leaves me more confused to be honest, although it may feel good to meditate temporarily.

I know you can't probably give me much help on this, but maybe this has helped me get it off my chest for the time being ! :)

Ps, I am a simple person so if anyone has any advice, please could you keep it concise ?
Thanks again any input or advice on anything would be appreciated.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 07:10:20 pm by Ged »

Offline Anemephistus

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Re: feelings
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2017, 08:22:11 pm »
I would like to suggest this book to you. It's by a wonderful monk and has a lot of insight.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0767903692/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1514515859&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=the+heart+of+the+buddha%27s+teaching

I am sure that there are many beautiful things in your life which have immense joy and value, I think we should all take care with waiting for certain things to be a certain way before we feel comfortable, it can lead to waiting forever and letting many opportunities pass us by.

I think that the book would help a lot and it is pretty straightforward.

I think guidance from a qualified person who can interact with both of you and help you seek understanding together would be worth finding in the situation that you describe.

 


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