Author Topic: feelings  (Read 2246 times)

Offline ground

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Re: feelings
« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2017, 01:53:35 pm »
VR cares enough & is nice enough to encourage others to develop their wisdom & compassion by making meaningful contributions to the dilemma of a human friend looking for support & clarity.  <3
This involves cultivation of self and other and therefore counters cessation.

The Great Ease is cessation, cessation is the Great Ease.


 :fu:

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: feelings
« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2017, 02:42:08 pm »
VR cares enough & is nice enough to encourage others to develop their wisdom & compassion by making meaningful contributions to the dilemma of a human friend looking for support & clarity.  <3

When did you decide on that?

Here, below, with metta (loving-kindness) towards Anemephistus:  <3 <3 <3

I think guidance from a qualified person who can interact with both of you and help you seek understanding together would be worth finding in the situation that you describe.

Ged's situation sounds the same as yours, namely, wife, daughter, some disharmony. To me, you (Anemephistus) sound like a qualified person to share some personal experience, advice or informal guidance.

 :listen: :namaste:


Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: feelings
« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2017, 02:45:01 pm »
This involves cultivation of self and other and therefore counters cessation.

Wrong. There are countless teachings of the Fully Enlightened Buddha Tathagata about 'self & others', which are mere conventions.  <3 <3 <3

Offline ground

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Re: feelings
« Reply #33 on: December 31, 2017, 02:59:18 pm »
This involves cultivation of self and other and therefore counters cessation.

Wrong. There are countless teachings of the Fully Enlightened Buddha Tathagata about 'self & others', which are mere conventions.  <3 <3 <3
right, 'mere conventions'. See, it takes one to subscribe to a convention before a convention can become relevant for oneself. And affirmation of self is a prerequisite. But there is neither self nor other.

 :fu:

Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: feelings
« Reply #34 on: December 31, 2017, 03:17:19 pm »
right, 'mere conventions'. See, it takes one to subscribe to a convention before a convention can become relevant for oneself. And affirmation of self is a prerequisite. But there is neither self nor other.

'I'  :teehee: think the enlightened suttas are much wiser than nihilist Ground. Best to take refuge in the enlightened suttas.

Quote
[Deva:]
He who's an Arahant, his work achieved,
Free from taints, in final body clad,
That monk still might use such words as "I."
Still perchance might say: "They call this mine."
...

Would such a monk be prone to vain conceits?

[The Blessed One:]
Bonds are gone for him without conceits,
All delusion's chains are cast aside:
Truly wise, he's gone beyond such thoughts.
That monk still might use such words as "I,"
Still perchance might say: "They call this mine."
Well aware of common worldly speech [conventions],
He would speak conforming to such use

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ati/tipitaka/sn/sn01/sn01.025.wlsh.html


 :buddha:

Ground:

Quote
The Tathāgata, bhikkhus, understands this thus: 'Those good recluses and brahmins who describe the annihilation, destruction, and extermination of an existing being, through fear of identity and disgust with identity, keep running and circling around that same identity.Just as a dog, tied by a leash to a post or stake, keeps running around and circling around that very post or stake; in the same way, these venerable contemplative & brahmans—through fear of self-identity, through disgust for self-identity—(nevertheless) keep running & circling around self-identity. ... MN 102

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN102.html


 :lmfao: :smack:



Offline Anemephistus

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Re: feelings
« Reply #35 on: December 31, 2017, 09:58:05 pm »
To Ged:

I had started the work of talking to my thoughts, those thoughts which gave rise to my unpleasant feelings. I had been angry at things I thought should have been clear to my wife, but I had never asked my anger why it felt that my wife  should know these things. When I did my anger became confusion, about where I had picked up the preconceived notions which it thought would be obvious to her. 

I will borrow an illustration technique  from the Buddhist works I have read: We have a television, it's a good television and it shows us our entertainment well and has worked for a long time.

One day we are walking through the store and a larger lighter brighter television is there. It looks better than the one that we have. We get the idea: We kind of want the new TV. We start to think about the new TV while we are watching our old one. We start to notice the dust, the scratches, the shappy and worn buttons because we compare it to the new TV in our thoughts.

Eventually we decide it is a good idea to replace our TV, it works well but we only see everything it is missing that the new object of our desire seems to have.

It is okay to buy a new TV! But we should not let ourselves lie and tell us about how bad our old one is and start a fantasy about how perfect our new one will be. If we do start this process then our new TV will only be good until we see another one we like better.

What we have in life will never be good enough if we use this type of judgment, it's not about accepting what is really wrong that's a problem, and if there is a problem there is nothing wrong with fixing it.  This is about creating a perception about what is wrong that is false, then making more suffering because the problem is a lie we keep telling ourselves to hide from the underlying things that we do not want to face or may not understand.

These are the comparisons of my thinking after I let go of the preconceived notions about my relationship that I had. (I still have some, but I evaluate what I allow my thoughts to do with them) and from before I let go.

I kept thinking that I was arguing with my wife because she was wrong. I thought I was right. I thought we had so much conflict because she was harsh and that I was better mannered. I thought I was giving up my life to support her sitting around and taking care of the house and child because she was ungrateful and lazy. I thought I was much 'better' than she was because I was judging her from an ideal. I felt like I was never going to be happy with her because I couldn't have exactly what I wanted. (I am serious by the way, I got really unhappy after I quit doing drugs and started trying to live with my wife)

I kept arguing with my wife because I decided to argue instead of talk. There is no value in right or wrong only in finding a direction to equal peace from the object of conflict. I was being mean then blaming her for being harsh because I wasn't kind with the truth or in full possession of it (I still am not). I am living my life and I would work much harder without her because I would have to solve all my own problems manage the house, raise a child and work a job without her. I created an ideal for her based on an honest inventory of her life instead of a comparison to what I thought would be perfect and suddenly realized that she was doing really good compared to where I would be in her position. I can't stay home a month with out getting a little stir crazy. I realized that I had a person who loved me right in front of me, and I was throwing it away for dreaming about things like I knew for sure that it would be better if I had done something else.

I felt very guilty about these things and I had to talk to guilt monkey about how we didn't even know what what we had been doing. He understood eventually.

Her and I spoke a lot during this and I explained myself to her because once I understood where I was coming from and what my problem was she could understand too and she forgave much of the behavior I had in the past. She also took a lot of responsibility for her end of many of the things that had happened because she had not acted better than I had at some points.

We still argue, it's not perfect, but it is good and it is honest. And even when we are arguing we both concede to the truth once one of us reaches it and points it out. It is not delicate for us, but we only have an argument once and it only lasts for the time it takes for us to figure out what we both need to do in order to fix our problem.

With all of this said: let go of the resentments, find the wrong ideas you have about yourself, let go of the things that are ideals and not based on the truth. Accept that if you were the inheritor of fully the exact same  circumstances as your wife,  you would be the same person she is and you did not get to fully choose your  place in the universe anymore than she did and see that you share a lot more in common than different. Recall things which make you happy about her, and talk with her earnestly and honestly and in as intense or as delicate a manner as you need until you have a like understanding of what you need in order to be successful and happy either together or apart. It will take a while if you started now but I suggest that book and more guidance than you can shake a stick a because we had to guide each other and it was a five year mess before we were able to go Years happily and in general peace.



Offline ground

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Re: feelings
« Reply #36 on: January 01, 2018, 02:07:18 am »
right, 'mere conventions'. See, it takes one to subscribe to a convention before a convention can become relevant for oneself. And affirmation of self is a prerequisite. But there is neither self nor other.

'I'  :teehee: think the enlightened suttas are much wiser than nihilist Ground. Best to take refuge in the enlightened suttas.

Where do empty words fall in empty space? Simplicity reveals the uselessness of all and everything. The Great Ease is spontaneously present.

 :fu:


Offline VisuddhiRaptor

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Re: feelings
« Reply #37 on: January 01, 2018, 12:19:27 pm »
Quote from: ground link=topic=8327.msg91249#msg91249

Where do empty words fall in empty space?

Emptiness does not mean "empty space".   :bugeye:

:focus: Back to topic, please. Anemephistus is engaged in Bodhisattva activity, here.  :namaste: <3

Offline Anemephistus

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Re: feelings
« Reply #38 on: January 01, 2018, 04:45:25 pm »
Quote from: ground link=topic=8327.msg91249#msg91249

Where do empty words fall in empty space?

Emptiness does not mean "empty space".   :bugeye:

:focus: Back to topic, please. Anemephistus is engaged in Bodhisattva activity, here.  :namaste: <3

I am not capable of engaging in Bodhisattva activities, I am not sufficiently wise and lack the proper perspective. I am Just trying to help. My life is better because of the things I shared, and they came from Buddhist teachings but are transmitted through my perception which is not perfected at all. I have not achieved and made a reflex out of The four sublime states and am not always able to hold onto the teachings very well. I fail to take refuge in them in my life when certain storms arise and I have almost lost my compassion many times and each time I face evil I feel aversion. I am not a Monk A guru a wise person or a teacher or layperson. But thank you for the very high compliment it is kind of you and I am grateful.

Ged: I know I am not succinct, but the process was long and difficult, along the way I found steps I was climbing and peace increased the most when I let go of the idea that my experience was mine and her experience was hers. The way my wife acted had reasons which were apparent and were caused and were real and her perception was the result of being in the world exactly as she had been and being exactly who she was.  If I had expectations that she would be different they were coming from me being in the world exactly as I was and my actions were the result of all that stuff too. I began to work from this perspective.  That we should share experiences and see what we should be using to fuel our relationship and what we should work to discard. We made promises to stop saying and doing certain things and to stop attacking certain issues, we work still to not verbally attack each other at all but we are not perfect. We still fall prey to our lesser natures sometimes but it no longer lasts and the things we were hauling mostly have dissipated and we found a vision that we both want to achieve in our future to an extent.

My daughter, she is close to the same age as yours. We have a very close relationship, insults and jokes are (almost) always a matter of humor, anger, frustration and confusion when it arrives are a matter for real discussion not fighting. I simply stop the discussion until we are not mad then we start from an objective view. This took time to develop in her and was focal to my role as a parent so that she can seek peace in life. She told me when I asked her that I was the best father she knew of and that when she sees what her friends face with their parents she is confused about how they can be so close together but share so little. She is confused about why they are so unkind and questions ignorance of a better way often...with more frustration about it then I wished she had, but she is young.  If you have not been honest and inquisitive and non judgmental with your daughter and encouraged her to do the same...I suggest starting, I know how my daughter feels about me. Everyone should be close and loving and compassionate for their children and for all living beings as much as they are capable of, and we should grow these traits so our capability grows and so that others see it and carry it with them into the world and forward it until it becomes the worlds common way.

I do not wish to make it sound perfect, it's not and we still are all working here and always will be, but I started as I described in my first post, I work still as I described in my second. The result is mostly described in this post. Soon my daughter leaves for college too, I am sad about this and I feel a longing to keep her close to me because I am very attached to her. But we have children, if all goes right, we raise adults and they go on to be happy and well.

Please Ged, or any others who are curious, feel free to ask questions about these things and how I applied them if I am not clear or if I have a gap somewhere. It does not reach to the end of the path, I know, but it helped me a lot and I can try to explain with my limited vision if you think it will aid you. 
 
I reiterate for the last time in this thread: The book I linked in the first post, It gave me enough foundation to start on, I do not think I have given enough foundation here and am not certain that I can even in the wordy scope of this description, I suggest finding a good source of greater information which is why I suggest the one I have listed, since it should make good sense with what I have said. 
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 07:38:15 pm by Anemephistus »

Offline IdleChater

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Re: feelings
« Reply #39 on: January 02, 2018, 09:09:28 am »
Quote from: ground link=topic=8327.msg91249#msg91249

Where do empty words fall in empty space?

Emptiness does not mean "empty space".

Actually, it kinda does.  Except that in the mahayana the phrase could be seen as kinda redundant.  We should also keep in mind that writing something and having any sort of true understanding  of it are two entirely different things.

To say "Where do empty words fall in empty space" sounds pithy in the context of the poster it's more like an attempt to confound the quoted poster and annoy the reader.

Offline ground

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Re: feelings
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2018, 03:15:54 pm »
Quote from: ground link=topic=8327.msg91249#msg91249

Where do empty words fall in empty space?

Emptiness does not mean "empty space".   :bugeye:
Emptiness does not mean anything. Why? Because emptiness not being empty of meaning would not be emptiness.
Empty space does not contain anything.
Empty space thus is a metaphor for emptiness.

 :fu:

Offline IdleChater

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Re: feelings
« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2018, 07:32:56 pm »
Quote from: ground link=topic=8327.msg91249#msg91249

Where do empty words fall in empty space?

Emptiness does not mean "empty space".   :bugeye:
Emptiness does not mean anything. Why? Because emptiness not being empty of meaning would not be emptiness.
Empty space does not contain anything.
Empty space thus is a metaphor for emptiness.

 :fu:

Sounds pithy.  Isn't.

 


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