Compassion for people you dislike

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[Wonky Badger]

If now is all we got, then I ought to be constantly indulging in sensual pleasures.  On the contrary, I make decisions which decrease my long term suffering at the expense of now.  Similarly, I make decisions which decrease others' long term suffering at the expense of now.

No, if now is all we got, you ought to be constantly pursuing the dharma. The past does not exist, the future has not yet happened and might not happen the way you expect it to, so you shouldn't invest too much of your "now" in it. Hence you should live in the now. Do you know for sure that your sacrifice of "now" will decrease long term suffering? What if you (or they) get hit by a truck before your sacrifice has paid off? Or what if your life situation changes, making your sacrifice otherwise void? I used to sacrifice the now thinking that I'd fix it in the future. "I'll work hard now and spend time with my family later", "We'll sacrifice our chance of happiness now, so we can be happier later" stuff like that. Now I have realized that it is wrong, because "later" might not come. I might die or lose my family. Then what good was my sacrifice? Of course you should plan for the future, but not by giving up the now. Now is all we have, so we should make the most of it.

[humanitas]

Similarly, I make decisions which decrease others' long term suffering at the expense of now.

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                            .  .  . _(Xn=X_(end of the slippery slope isthe bottom of a cliff...= falling here)_ __

[TMingyur]

I find that the ideal solution is usually to maintain unattached compassion.  

If you mean compassion endowed with wisdom I agree.

I have no problem chastising someone or slashing at their ego so long as I do it in an

unattached, calculated manner.
Keep in mind we want to be compassionate for their long term fate.  It is not so important

how we make them feel now.  This can be a slippery slope of rationalization, though.

 

This is problematic. You should take the Buddha as an example here but perhaps presume - just as a matter of precaution - that you have not yet attained his qualities.

Especially the Buddha's teachings on right speech may be helpful here.

Example:

[1] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be unfactual, untrue,
unbeneficial (or: not connected with the goal), unendearing & disagreeable to others, he does not say them.(a)

[2] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial,
unendearing & disagreeable to others, he does not say them.(b)

[3] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, but
unendearing & disagreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them.(c)

[4] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he does not say them.(d)

[5] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he does not say them.(e)

[6] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, and
endearing & agreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them.(f)
Why is that? Because the Tathagata has sympathy for living beings."

Abhaya Sutta

So to summarize:

a) if "unfactual/untrue" and "unbeneficial" and "unendearing & disagreeable", then "do not say"
b) if "factual/true" and "unbeneficial" and "unendearing & disagreeable", then "do not say"
c) if "factual/true" and "beneficial" but "unendearing & disagreeable", then "say at the
proper time"
d) if "unfactual/untrue" and "unbeneficial" but "endearing & agreeable", then "do not say"
e) if "factual/true" but "unbeneficial" however "endearing & agreeable", then "do not say"
f) if "factual/true" and "beneficial" and "endearing & agreeable", then "say at the proper time"


Conclusion:

1. "beneficial" prevails "true", thus a true but unbeneficial fact is never said even if
"endearing & agreeable"

2. What is not "true" is never said even if the lie would be "beneficial"

3. what is true and beneficial always has its time to be said and the Buddha, because of being a buddha and because of having "sympathy for living beings" "has a sense of the proper time for saying them"

Kind regards
 

[overmyhead]

No, if now is all we got, you ought to be constantly pursuing the dharma. The past does not exist, the future has not yet happened and might not happen the way you expect it to, so you shouldn't invest too much of your "now" in it. Hence you should live in the now. Do you know for sure that your sacrifice of "now" will decrease long term suffering? What if you (or they) get hit by a truck before your sacrifice has paid off? Or what if your life situation changes, making your sacrifice otherwise void? I used to sacrifice the now thinking that I'd fix it in the future. "I'll work hard now and spend time with my family later", "We'll sacrifice our chance of happiness now, so we can be happier later" stuff like that. Now I have realized that it is wrong, because "later" might not come. I might die or lose my family. Then what good was my sacrifice? Of course you should plan for the future, but not by giving up the now. Now is all we have, so we should make the most of it.

I don't understand.  Isn't one of the central themes of Buddhism that certain things which feel good now end up causing pain later, and so that we ought to show discretion with indulging in the now?  Isn't it all about karma ripening "down the road"?  The dharma does not make me happy now - it makes me happy later.  I can bury my head in the present moment and behave according to the dharma, but the dharma itself takes into consideration that the present must sacrifice itself for the future.

Similarly, I make decisions which decrease others' long term suffering at the expense of now.

________________|o)
                            . . .
                            .  .  .
. . .
                            .  .  .
. . .
                            .  .  .  !
. . .
                            .  .  .  !
. . .
                            .  .  .  ^
. . .
                            .  .  .  ^
. . .
                            .  .  .  !
. . . ..........................      .
                            .  .  . _(Xn=X_(end of the slippery slope isthe bottom of a cliff...= falling here)_ __

Pretty much.   Even though I wrote what I did in this thread, I only act with such discretion very rarely.  I have to be very confident that I am making the correct decision before I act with a way that will intentionally cause someone pain.

[Wonky Badger]

I don't understand.  Isn't one of the central themes of Buddhism that certain things which feel good now end up causing pain later, and so that we ought to show discretion with indulging in the now?  Isn't it all about karma ripening "down the road"?  The dharma does not make me happy now - it makes me happy later.  I can bury my head in the present moment and behave according to the dharma, but the dharma itself takes into consideration that the present must sacrifice itself for the future.

Yes, if you indulge in sensual pleasures now it might end up causing pain later (and in the same way "indulging" in the dharma ends up causing the opposite later). But the now is still the only thing we have. I don't know if I'll live tomorrow or even after an hour, so I should focus on the now. Even if I'm reborn, it might take many lifetimes before I find the dharma again. If we keep thinking about what we have done or should/would/could have done or didn't do, or if we keep thinking about what we will do or should/would/could do or shouldn't do in the future, we get nothing done now. We get nothing done at all. The karma ripens down the road, yes. That's why the dharma is important now, not later (well it actually is important later also, but that is not a reason to put it off until later).

What I meant when talking about my family was that if my "family time" consists of thinking about all the great moments I have had with my family or all the great moments I will have with my family (after I've worked myself up to a top position at work and paid of the morgages), in reality I will never have any more moments with my family. When I say that we should live in the now, not in the past or the future, I don't mean that we should indulge in the now. I mean that we should just stay present, here and now, not spending the day daydreaming and procrastinating; we should do what's important.

If the dharma doesn't make you happy now, maybe you should try a different approach? It isn't meant to be some kind of self-mortification. I think it should feel good on some level.

[Wonky Badger]

This post isn't really about compassion for someone I dislike. But someone it's hard to show compassion for.

I have a mosquito in my home office. It's freezing outside so I can't throw it out. It's been buzzing around my head and at one point I let it sit on my hand, but then it started searching for a vein... It's really a large one. Larger than usual. So I shooed it away and told it that it can bite me when I sleep, so I don't notice. Let's see if it can wait that long... I just hate trying to sleep with a mosquito buzzing around in the dark.

[Yeshe]

This post isn't really about compassion for someone I dislike. But someone it's hard to show compassion for.

I have a mosquito in my home office. It's freezing outside so I can't throw it out. It's been buzzing around my head and at one point I let it sit on my hand, but then it started searching for a vein... It's really a large one. Larger than usual. So I shooed it away and told it that it can bite me when I sleep, so I don't notice. Let's see if it can wait that long... I just hate trying to sleep with a mosquito buzzing around in the dark.

You are in good company.  There is a story of compassion I read where the monk allows the mosquitoes to feed on him while teaching his disciples, as an example to them. In India, with the risk of malaria and dengue fever (which I've had) I find this amazing.

Compassion for the person who killed your child must be immensely difficult, yet recently I have seen this on news programmes where children have been stabbed or shot. The parents were Christians, and a finer example of compassion would be hard to find.

[Nurseholistic]

I am posting a link below to Jack Kornfield's Kindness Meditation Practice, from his book "A Path With Heart". I am grateful for this discussion. I currently have conflicts with a couple of co-workers, and this has caused me a lot of emotional turmoil and suffering over the last week or so. I hope that practicing this meditation will help me (and others) develop ways to make peace with this type of situation. I know that difficult people can be good teachers, but when you're hurting it is difficult to see through your pain and determine what lesson you're supposed to learn from them.   

http://dharma.ncf.ca/introduction/instructions/metta.html

Peace to all,

Nurseholistic

[dhammaseeker51]

I had the same thing happen to me very recently and it made me examine the way I relate to people, and I have learnt from it.
I often find that when people are unkind or difficult with me in nine times out of ten its usually me who is the problem.
The way we react to others is often instinctive and based on our conditioning, and without mindfulnes. Taking away the pain of insult or hurt feelings allows us to look at the problem by stepping back, then we can better see the reason for their actions.
Often its our approach to people which causes the problems.
And, if they are genuinely mean to us for no reason, ask yourself what did you expect.
Everyone is trying to act to make themselves happy, maybe they think being mean to others will do that, remember they are also conditioned beings and dont have the benefit of the dhamma, and will reap the kamma of their actions, not you.
If all else fails, remember, it won't last forever !
with Metta