Author Topic: How To find inner peace?  (Read 495 times)

Offline Anemephistus

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Re: How To find inner peace?
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2017, 03:40:56 pm »

[/quote]"Thoughts are like clouds. Even though the clouds sometimes seem to cover the entire sky, if you take a plane you can go beyond them into a vast space that is never even touched by the clouds. The clouds of our ordinary thoughts are just temporary and changing, whilst the deeper nature of our mind is unchanging, like the infinite space of the sky."
http://sogyalrinpoche.org/videos/finding-your-balance-with-the-sky-like-nature-of-mind[/quote]

That's really nice.

Offline ground

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Re: How To find inner peace?
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2017, 03:50:43 pm »
...
That's really nice.
Don't go by nice feelings because feelings (vedana) are samsara. :fu:

Offline Pixie

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Re: How To find inner peace?
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2017, 11:54:55 pm »

Quote
"Thoughts are like clouds. Even though the clouds sometimes seem to cover the entire sky, if you take a plane you can go beyond them into a vast space that is never even touched by the clouds. The clouds of our ordinary thoughts are just temporary and changing, whilst the deeper nature of our mind is unchanging, like the infinite space of the sky."
http://sogyalrinpoche.org/videos/finding-your-balance-with-the-sky-like-nature-of-mind


That's really nice.


I think the original "thoughts are like clouds" might have been in 'The Songs of Milarepa'.

More about Milarepa here:

http://www.rinpoche.com/teachings/sustaining.htm#_ftn1



 At any rate, I don't think its a good idea to follow Sogyal Lakar as a teacher:

https://www.lionsroar.com/letter-to-sogyal-rinpoche-from-current-and-ex-rigpa-members-details-abuse-allegations/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/sexual-assaults-violent-rages-inside-dark-world-buddhist-teacher/

.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2017, 01:41:00 am by Pixie »
May all beings have happiness and the causes of happiness.
May they all be free from suffering and the causes of suffering.
May they never be deprived of true happiness devoid of any suffering.
May they abide in great impartiality, free from attachment to loved ones and aversion to others.

Offline Spiny Norman

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Re: How To find inner peace?
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2017, 02:12:00 am »

Quote
"Thoughts are like clouds. Even though the clouds sometimes seem to cover the entire sky, if you take a plane you can go beyond them into a vast space that is never even touched by the clouds. The clouds of our ordinary thoughts are just temporary and changing, whilst the deeper nature of our mind is unchanging, like the infinite space of the sky."
http://sogyalrinpoche.org/videos/finding-your-balance-with-the-sky-like-nature-of-mind


That's really nice.


I did a meditation retreat with Sogyal Rinpoche in Ireland years ago, and I recall he talked a lot about developing a spacious mind. 

In a similar vein, here is something from a book called "Now is the knowing" By Ajahn Sumedho of the Thai Forest School ( page 57 ):
"So when we abide in the emptiness of our mind we're moving away, not getting rid of things but no longer absorbing into conditions....This is the Buddhist way to enlightenment; going towards Nibbana, inclining towards the spaciousness or emptiness of mind rather than being born and caught up in conditions."

And something from "How to practice" by the Dalai Lama ( page 173 ):
"The faulty defilments that pollute the mind - such as ignorance, lust and hatred - are temporary, and therefore seperable from the mind.  Once these defilements are understood to be superficial and not in the minds basic nature, we see that the deep nature of mind is clear light, emptiness."

« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 02:15:15 am by Spiny Norman »

Offline Anemephistus

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Re: How To find inner peace?
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2017, 05:32:07 am »
I have read how to practice by the Dali Lama and recall the mention of the clear mind often. These are wonderful illustrations of the concept and I thank you for sharing them. I would like to ask if you have any links to more teaching and insight into the concept as well, I would like to read what you have found relevant and would appreciate your time you see fit to post more information. :)

Ground, I know of no perfect language that expresses truth in its entirety, only language that points to its location, and being polite when a teacher with a lot of experience expresses a concept in a meaningful way is better than not doing so by every metric that I know of or have heard expressed. 

When we talk to a person about a buying a car we don't say " The reflection of self in recognition of its false nature as a "car" is the subjective thing I am referring to, the thing in a color which I am indifferent to because it is ego to care, the thing located in the place which all of history has by causation placed in the location where it is if location is to be believed in the way we understand it. Still that which I have the volition to use for a time has a separate existence from all I have said and Volition to have a material thing is not good either." 

Instead it's "I'll take the red one on left. If we can work out a price." 

Yes, cessation of feelings is a condition of enlightenment, recognition of truth by proper discernment is critical, and it is laborious in common speech to express and hard to get to a meaning if the meaning is something simple. The quote was nice, and I am trying to be pragmatic.   

Offline ground

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Re: How To find inner peace?
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2017, 08:36:42 am »
Ground, I know of no perfect language that expresses truth in its entirety, only language that points to its location, and being polite when a teacher with a lot of experience expresses a concept in a meaningful way is better than not doing so by every metric that I know of or have heard expressed. 
Something isn't true or points to an alleged location of truth because it causes nice feelings.  :fu:

It's a common error to replace one fabrication by another fabrication which appears to  be nicer.

Offline ground

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Re: How To find inner peace?
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2017, 04:58:49 pm »

Quote
"Thoughts are like clouds. Even though the clouds sometimes seem to cover the entire sky, if you take a plane you can go beyond them into a vast space that is never even touched by the clouds. The clouds of our ordinary thoughts are just temporary and changing, whilst the deeper nature of our mind is unchanging, like the infinite space of the sky."
http://sogyalrinpoche.org/videos/finding-your-balance-with-the-sky-like-nature-of-mind


That's really nice.


I did a meditation retreat with Sogyal Rinpoche in Ireland years ago, and I recall he talked a lot about developing a spacious mind. 

In a similar vein, here is something from a book called "Now is the knowing" By Ajahn Sumedho of the Thai Forest School ( page 57 ):
"So when we abide in the emptiness of our mind we're moving away, not getting rid of things but no longer absorbing into conditions....This is the Buddhist way to enlightenment; going towards Nibbana, inclining towards the spaciousness or emptiness of mind rather than being born and caught up in conditions."

 :lmfao:
How can 'we abide in the emptiness of our mind'? Do we have one or different minds? How can an individual abide in the emptiness of his/her mind? Is it that there is the individual on one hand and the mind on the other hand?
Do you see the nonsense in this statement?

And something from "How to practice" by the Dalai Lama ( page 173 ):
"The faulty defilments that pollute the mind - such as ignorance, lust and hatred - are temporary, and therefore seperable from the mind.  Once these defilements are understood to be superficial and not in the minds basic nature, we see that the deep nature of mind is clear light, emptiness."

There are no defilements. How can there be defilements in the nature of mind? If there are defilements then these have be different from the nature of mind and originate from outside of the nature of mind. But that is impossible.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 05:00:52 pm by ground »

Offline ground

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Re: How To find inner peace?
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2017, 02:18:10 am »
And something from "How to practice" by the Dalai Lama ( page 173 ):
"The faulty defilments that pollute the mind - such as ignorance, lust and hatred - are temporary, and therefore seperable from the mind.  Once these defilements are understood to be superficial and not in the minds basic nature, we see that the deep nature of mind is clear light, emptiness."
There are no defilements. How can there be defilements in the nature of mind? If there are defilements then these have be different from the nature of mind and originate from outside of the nature of mind. But that is impossible.

The basic error in these so called 'teachings' is to fabricate a difference between mind and its nature and to say that there are phenomena in mind which are kind of bad but the nature of mind is empty of that which is kind of bad. How could the mind be different from its nature? Where there is mind there is its nature. Therfore it is inappropriate to assert that there were 'faulty defilments that pollute the mind'. Whatever arises in mind is not different from its nature.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 02:20:11 am by ground »

Offline Spiny Norman

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Re: How To find inner peace?
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2017, 04:30:07 am »
And something from "How to practice" by the Dalai Lama ( page 173 ):
"The faulty defilments that pollute the mind - such as ignorance, lust and hatred - are temporary, and therefore seperable from the mind.  Once these defilements are understood to be superficial and not in the minds basic nature, we see that the deep nature of mind is clear light, emptiness."
There are no defilements. How can there be defilements in the nature of mind? If there are defilements then these have be different from the nature of mind and originate from outside of the nature of mind. But that is impossible.

The basic error in these so called 'teachings' is to fabricate a difference between mind and its nature and to say that there are phenomena in mind which are kind of bad but the nature of mind is empty of that which is kind of bad. How could the mind be different from its nature? Where there is mind there is its nature. Therfore it is inappropriate to assert that there were 'faulty defilments that pollute the mind'. Whatever arises in mind is not different from its nature.

The quotes I have provided explain that the nature of mind is emptiness.  You really need to have a big bonfire and throw on all your straw-men.

I'm not sure whether you are trolling, or just missing the point.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 04:41:24 am by Spiny Norman »

Offline Anemephistus

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Re: How To find inner peace?
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2017, 04:56:09 am »
And something from "How to practice" by the Dalai Lama ( page 173 ):
"The faulty defilments that pollute the mind - such as ignorance, lust and hatred - are temporary, and therefore seperable from the mind.  Once these defilements are understood to be superficial and not in the minds basic nature, we see that the deep nature of mind is clear light, emptiness."
There are no defilements. How can there be defilements in the nature of mind? If there are defilements then these have be different from the nature of mind and originate from outside of the nature of mind. But that is impossible.

The basic error in these so called 'teachings' is to fabricate a difference between mind and its nature and to say that there are phenomena in mind which are kind of bad but the nature of mind is empty of that which is kind of bad. How could the mind be different from its nature? Where there is mind there is its nature. Therfore it is inappropriate to assert that there were 'faulty defilments that pollute the mind'. Whatever arises in mind is not different from its nature.

An arm that is broken is not in accordance with its nature or it's fully functional state, and it is simply another part of the body. The arm by default is empty of brokenness, but injured in this way it has developed a condition that is not its natural state.

Unless the mind is somehow a special and separate part of the body and therefore inherently separate from the arm in capability to be injured then it too can suffer the same type of situation.
Obviously the mind is able to be effected in ways that create a less obvious broken state, and the trauma it suffers is not always physical but that does not make a substantial difference except in what tools are required to heal it.

I for one do not wish to have a cast placed on my brain. :)

Make the same motion with the arm ten thousand times, it will become a reflex. Think the same thought ten thousand times it will become a habit. Not all reflexes are good, and they can be untrained. Not all habits are good and they can be untrained. Untrain all of the bad reflexes that have been taught to the arm or habits of the mind and give them time to heal away from what is damaging them. The arm unaffected by external damaging forces, with the damage that has been done healed, is the state now not the natural state of the arm, with the same logic is the same not true of the mind?

The nature of the arm is easy, how about the nature of the mind? What does it look like undamaged in its clear state, free of malformed notions and false ideas?

« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 05:18:35 am by Anemephistus »

Offline IdleChater

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Re: How To find inner peace?
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2017, 06:14:20 am »
The quotes I have provided explain that the nature of mind is emptiness.  You really need to have a big bonfire and throw on all your straw-men.

I'm snot so sure about the straw-man accusation but whatever it is, it would be nice if he tossed them in than bonfire.

Will you cite his straw-men for me plz?

Quote
I'm not sure whether you are trolling, or just missing the point.

I'm not sure of either.

It seems to me that he's presenting conundrums, perhaps to get someone to think he's being pithy or profound, but rather, he only succeeds in being superfically clever.  I don't think he really cares about the point so much as making himself look good.

Best to simply ignore.

I, personally really liked your contibtions to the thread.

Perhaps we could get Meeks to set up a personal chat room for ground to talk to himself.  He seems to like that - he's constantly responding to his own posts.  How weird is that?

Offline ground

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Re: How To find inner peace?
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2017, 10:57:21 pm »
And something from "How to practice" by the Dalai Lama ( page 173 ):
"The faulty defilments that pollute the mind - such as ignorance, lust and hatred - are temporary, and therefore seperable from the mind.  Once these defilements are understood to be superficial and not in the minds basic nature, we see that the deep nature of mind is clear light, emptiness."
There are no defilements. How can there be defilements in the nature of mind? If there are defilements then these have be different from the nature of mind and originate from outside of the nature of mind. But that is impossible.

The basic error in these so called 'teachings' is to fabricate a difference between mind and its nature and to say that there are phenomena in mind which are kind of bad but the nature of mind is empty of that which is kind of bad. How could the mind be different from its nature? Where there is mind there is its nature. Therfore it is inappropriate to assert that there were 'faulty defilments that pollute the mind'. Whatever arises in mind is not different from its nature.

The quotes I have provided explain that the nature of mind is emptiness. 

Ha Ha. If the nature of mind is emptiness what then is mind?

The nature of fabrication is fabrication. Totally useless.  :fu:

Offline ground

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Re: How To find inner peace?
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2017, 11:05:25 pm »
And something from "How to practice" by the Dalai Lama ( page 173 ):
"The faulty defilments that pollute the mind - such as ignorance, lust and hatred - are temporary, and therefore seperable from the mind.  Once these defilements are understood to be superficial and not in the minds basic nature, we see that the deep nature of mind is clear light, emptiness."
There are no defilements. How can there be defilements in the nature of mind? If there are defilements then these have be different from the nature of mind and originate from outside of the nature of mind. But that is impossible.

The basic error in these so called 'teachings' is to fabricate a difference between mind and its nature and to say that there are phenomena in mind which are kind of bad but the nature of mind is empty of that which is kind of bad. How could the mind be different from its nature? Where there is mind there is its nature. Therfore it is inappropriate to assert that there were 'faulty defilments that pollute the mind'. Whatever arises in mind is not different from its nature.

An arm that is broken is not in accordance with its nature or it's fully functional state, and it is simply another part of the body. The arm by default is empty of brokenness, but injured in this way it has developed a condition that is not its natural state.

Unless the mind is somehow a special and separate part of the body and therefore inherently separate from the arm in capability to be injured then it too can suffer the same type of situation.
Obviously the mind is able to be effected in ways that create a less obvious broken state, and the trauma it suffers is not always physical but that does not make a substantial difference except in what tools are required to heal it.

I for one do not wish to have a cast placed on my brain. :)

Make the same motion with the arm ten thousand times, it will become a reflex. Think the same thought ten thousand times it will become a habit. Not all reflexes are good, and they can be untrained. Not all habits are good and they can be untrained. Untrain all of the bad reflexes that have been taught to the arm or habits of the mind and give them time to heal away from what is damaging them. The arm unaffected by external damaging forces, with the damage that has been done healed, is the state now not the natural state of the arm, with the same logic is the same not true of the mind?

The nature of the arm is easy, how about the nature of the mind? What does it look like undamaged in its clear state, free of malformed notions and false ideas?

your inclination for proliferation into complex fabrications is very strong.

Just consider this: there are correct fabrications and there are incorrect fabrications. But even correct fabrications just support clinging to fabricated being.  :fu:


Offline Spiny Norman

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Re: How To find inner peace?
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2017, 03:32:59 am »
And something from "How to practice" by the Dalai Lama ( page 173 ):
"The faulty defilments that pollute the mind - such as ignorance, lust and hatred - are temporary, and therefore seperable from the mind.  Once these defilements are understood to be superficial and not in the minds basic nature, we see that the deep nature of mind is clear light, emptiness."
There are no defilements. How can there be defilements in the nature of mind? If there are defilements then these have be different from the nature of mind and originate from outside of the nature of mind. But that is impossible.

The basic error in these so called 'teachings' is to fabricate a difference between mind and its nature and to say that there are phenomena in mind which are kind of bad but the nature of mind is empty of that which is kind of bad. How could the mind be different from its nature? Where there is mind there is its nature. Therfore it is inappropriate to assert that there were 'faulty defilments that pollute the mind'. Whatever arises in mind is not different from its nature.

The quotes I have provided explain that the nature of mind is emptiness. 

Ha Ha. If the nature of mind is emptiness what then is mind?


Emptiness.

I think you're a time waster and will not respond to you further.

Offline ground

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Re: How To find inner peace?
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2017, 12:06:43 am »
And something from "How to practice" by the Dalai Lama ( page 173 ):
"The faulty defilments that pollute the mind - such as ignorance, lust and hatred - are temporary, and therefore seperable from the mind.  Once these defilements are understood to be superficial and not in the minds basic nature, we see that the deep nature of mind is clear light, emptiness."
There are no defilements. How can there be defilements in the nature of mind? If there are defilements then these have be different from the nature of mind and originate from outside of the nature of mind. But that is impossible.

The basic error in these so called 'teachings' is to fabricate a difference between mind and its nature and to say that there are phenomena in mind which are kind of bad but the nature of mind is empty of that which is kind of bad. How could the mind be different from its nature? Where there is mind there is its nature. Therfore it is inappropriate to assert that there were 'faulty defilments that pollute the mind'. Whatever arises in mind is not different from its nature.

The quotes I have provided explain that the nature of mind is emptiness. 

Ha Ha. If the nature of mind is emptiness what then is mind?


Emptiness.

I think you're a time waster and will not respond to you further.

So you believe that mind is emptiness but time should be saved for special purposes that are worthwhile?  :teehee:

 


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