Author Topic: Hello  (Read 1113 times)

Offline RichardG

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Hello
« on: August 12, 2015, 11:46:15 am »
Hello Everyone.

After all my books and research, I am still confused.

A couple of discussions/questions:

The two main sects of Buddhish ______and________

What is Pure Land?

Are Ordain Monks allowed;
To eat meat
Have sex
Physically Fight
Drink Alcohol

Should a monk not have personal possessions?
Computer
Cell Phone
Car
Bank Account

What is the difference from a Buddhist Practitioner to that of Monk?


Thanks-Richard


Offline Dharmakara

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Re: Hello
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2015, 02:02:55 pm »
The two main branches of Buddhism are Theravada and Mahayana.

--------------

Pure Land Buddhism is a broad branch of Mahayana Buddhism and one of the most widely practiced traditions of Buddhism in East Asia. Pure Land is a tradition of Buddhist teachings that are focused on Amitabha Buddha.

more here >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_Land_Buddhism

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Ordain Monks allowed:

To eat meat --- in the Theravada tradition, yes, provided that the animal has not been slaughtered for them.

Have sex --- no
Physically Fight --- no
Drink Alcohol --- no

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Should a monk not have personal possessions?

Monastics are expected to live with a minimum of possessions (usually two robes, sandals, prayer beads, alms bowl, razor, ect.), but in modern times this has been somewhat relaxed depending upon the circumstances.

Computer --- usually permitted
Cell Phone --- usually permitted
Car --- usually not permitted
Bank Account --- usually not permitted, considered the same as money handling

more here >>> http://en.dhammadana.org/sangha/monks/belongings.htm

--------------

What is the difference from a Buddhist Practitioner to that of Monk?

The rules of monastic disciple (vinyaya) apply only to monks and nuns, not lay members.

more here >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinaya

Offline RichardG

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Re: Hello
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2015, 02:58:36 pm »
MANY THANKS

If a ordained monk violates these or any precepts, are they still considered as a monk?

What happens to them, are they out-casted as normal Buddhist practitioners?

Offline Dharmakara

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Re: Hello
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2015, 07:17:24 pm »
Quote
The core of the monastic discipline is a list of rules called the Patimokkha. In the bhikkhu-patimokkha (for the monks) there are 227 rules, while in the bhikkhuni-patimokkha (for the nuns) there are 311 rules. The first four rules in the patimokkha, for both monks and nuns, are the four Parajika. The word parajika (in the ancient Indian language called Pali) is usually translated as 'making the doer defeated'. In effect it means that the offender MUST DISROBE. No ceremony or trial is required. From the instant the transgression is completed, the perpetrator automatically loses his or her status as a Buddhist monk or nun. Obviously these four rules were considered by the Buddha to be extreme violations of the spiritual ethic and a major obstacle in the path to enlightenment. They considered such gross behaviour on the part of a monk or nun that the penalty of disrobal was for life! Such a one could not simply re-ordain after a period of grace.

The four transgressions which incur a Parajika, the penalty of automatic disrobal, are as follows:

1. Engaging in sexual intercourse with another being of either sex.

2. Stealing something of value (which includes smuggling, cheating or deliberately avoiding payment of a tax).

3. Purposely killing a human being or encouraging him or her to commit suicide (this includes inciting another to murder somebody and it also includes convincing a woman to have an abortion.

4. Boasting that one has realised a high spiritual attainment, knowing that one is lying. For example, claiming to be enlightened, to be Maitreya Buddha, to have entered Jhana (deep meditation-ecstasy) or that one can read minds when one knows that one hasn't reached any of these states.

Should any monk or nun do any of these then you may know them as no longer holding the status of Buddhist monk or nun. They must disrobe. Should they attempt to hide their transgression and not disrobe then it is said that the bad karma produced is extreme indeed!

In these four disrobing offences there is no excuse for ignorance. In a story related in the Buddhist scriptures [1], a newly ordained monk who had not as yet been instructed in the Vinaya was cajoled by his former wife into having sexual intercourse with her. When he told the other monks of this, they approached the Buddha and asked what should be done. The Buddha decreed that the offending monk had to disrobe and in future all monks were to be told of the Four Things Not to be Done, the four Parajika, immediately after they have been ordained. Indeed, instructing the new monk in these four rules has now become part of the Ordination Ceremony itself. So there can be no excuse!

References
[1] Book of the Discipline, volume 4, page 124.

http://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebsut019.htm


It should also be noted that there is "a point of no return" known as  the Pakasaniya Kamma, this being the act of proclamation carried out by the Sangha when the words and physical actions of a monk are clearly no longer related to the Buddha, the Dharma, or the Sangha, but due to moral and ethical ineptitude this proclamation is rarely ever carried out.

Offline RichardG

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Re: Hello
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2015, 05:39:12 am »
Quote

It should also be noted that there is "a point of no return" known as  the Pakasaniya Kamma, this being the act of proclamation carried out by the Sangha when the words and physical actions of a monk are clearly no longer related to the Buddha, the Dharma, or the Sangha, but due to moral and ethical ineptitude this proclamation is rarely ever carried out.

Sorry, I don't quite understand; "but due to moral and ethical ineptitude this proclamation is rarely ever carried out."

I read somewhere that a monk once commented; "One monk remarked that although meat eating may be allowable, "should we do what we can get away with or should we hold a higher standard and fp;;ow the Sanghado the most compassionate thing?""

Offline Dharmakara

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Re: Hello
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2015, 07:50:55 am »
What I was referring to was ineptitude within the institution itself, that today there's enough corruption to ensure that the proclamation is rarely enacted --- needless to say, this is a problem in all institutionalized religions, not just Buddhism.

As for the issue of meat eating vs. vegetarianism, I can't say that I disagree with the monk that you quoted, but stressing mindful consumption might be better. Also, for future reference, please know that all discussions related to that issue are to occur within the Danger Zone area of forum.

Offline RichardG

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Re: Hello
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2015, 08:25:53 am »
What I was referring to was ineptitude within the institution itself, that today there's enough corruption to ensure that the proclamation is rarely enacted --- needless to say, this is a problem in all institutionalized religions, not just Buddhism.

As for the issue of meat eating vs. vegetarianism, I can't say that I disagree with the monk that you quoted, but stressing mindful consumption might be better. Also, for future reference, please know that all discussions related to that issue are to occur within the Danger Zone area of forum.

Sorry, I do not fully understand.

Which issue? Eating meat or today's problems and corruption?

Offline Dharmakara

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Re: Hello
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2015, 08:45:28 am »
Issues related to meat eating vs. vegetarianism belong in the Danger Zone --- you'll find an entire thread dedicated to the topic there:

http://www.freesangha.com/forums/the-danger-zone/is-meat-eating-compatible-with-buddhist-practice/

Offline RichardG

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Re: Hello
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2015, 05:54:16 am »
If we were to apply the term Authenticity as a technical term used in psychology as well as existentialist philosophy and aesthetics. In existentialism, authenticity is the degree to which one is true to one's own personality, spirit, or character, despite external pressures; the conscious self is seen as coming to terms with being in a material world and with encountering external forces, pressures and influences which are very different from, and other than, itself. A lack of authenticity is considered in existentialism to be bad faith. Thus, it could almost correlate to the very structure of Buddhist monk hood. The notion of adhering to one “true self” would seem to be part of the path in Buddhism, as how people evolve with experience, discovering facets of themselves

Is there such a thing as "Authentic Buddhism (Buddhist Monks)?

Offline Dharmakara

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Re: Hello
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2015, 07:00:18 am »
Clearly you do a lot of "thinking", but very little "practicing"  --- try putting it in reverse and you'll find the answers you're looking for.


Offline RichardG

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Re: Hello
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2015, 08:11:49 am »
Sorry, I do a lot of thinking, because before I decide on something, or am curious, I have to look into it with depth. When I ask about something, it is from a genuine, sincere perspective. If this was a motor club forum, and people were asking about something I have knowledge of, I would answer every question I could. Are you willing to further help me?

Is there such a thing as "Authentic Buddhism" (or Buddhist Monks)?
« Last Edit: August 18, 2015, 08:13:50 am by RichardG »

Offline Dharmakara

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Re: Hello
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2015, 08:16:37 am »
I am trying to help you... if you put Buddhism into practice you'll find the answer(s) you're looking for.

Offline RichardG

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Re: Hello
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2015, 10:25:38 am »
I cannot put something into practice without understanding. I am looking for layman's explanations and answers. At first, I was receiving this, but as you keep going on about Buddhist practice, I get more confused.

Offline Dharmakara

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Re: Hello
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2015, 11:30:17 am »
I have nothing more to add at this time, other than to state the obvious, that if you want to know about Buddhism, then put it into practice --- if you're unwilling to do so, then anything else I would have to say would be pointless, especially when it comes to authenticity of practice.

Find a tree and sit, grasshopper, then we'll talk  :wink1:

Offline RichardG

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Re: Hello
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2015, 12:41:14 pm »
I guess, like many forums, no one is willing to discuss it on laymen's terms.

If someone comes to a forum I am on about cars/engines, and asks a question that I know, I will help them

I guess I came to the wrong place and am speaking to the wrong person.

My search will painstakenly go on


 


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