Author Topic: Here we gooooo.....  (Read 841 times)

Offline Rochig

  • Member
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Here we gooooo.....
« on: September 13, 2015, 01:57:01 pm »
Hey all.

My name is Rochig. I am a student of Kyoun Sokuzan, who was a student of Kobun Chino Roshi and Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche. I lived and practiced in his temple for a period of time.

Ever since I was a child, I had a fascination with Buddhist monks. I always romanticized the power they held over their own minds, or at least my preconceived notion that they had fantastic control of their minds.

Anxiety and OCD lead me to Heroin. Heroin led me to rehab, which lead me to Buddhism.

I was always taught that good and bad, right and wrong, and thinking this way was living in a dualistic nature. To transcend this is to be realized. Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche was the perfect example of this. To be realized doesn't mean that you are a loving, compassionate person. You could be a womanizing drug- addict, and hey, maybe even serial killer.

I struggle alot with the dogma of Buddhism. The eight-fold this, the four that, the five this.... etc. Because like I said, once realized, you transcend right and wrong, and the dogma of Buddhism becomes obsolete.....even Buddhism itself.

Offline Dharmakara

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4230
    • View Profile
Re: Here we gooooo.....
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2015, 03:54:51 pm »
To be realized doesn't mean that you are a loving, compassionate person. You could be a womanizing drug- addict, and hey, maybe even serial killer.

My friend, that sounds like "dharma impairment" to me.

Offline Rochig

  • Member
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Here we gooooo.....
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2015, 06:44:55 pm »
Differentiating between right and wrong sounds like dharma impairment to me....

Offline Dharmakara

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4230
    • View Profile
Re: Here we gooooo.....
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2015, 07:29:14 pm »
Hmmm... wouldn't that be the mantra of a hungry ghost in the flesh?

It's not an issue of "differentiating" between right and wrong, or even passing judgment for that matter, but "knowing" the difference between the two and "acting" accordingly.

Offline Rochig

  • Member
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Here we gooooo.....
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2015, 07:31:07 pm »
And everyone's "knowing" is different. There is no objective moral code or set of ethics.


Offline Dharmakara

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4230
    • View Profile
Re: Here we gooooo.....
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2015, 07:42:31 pm »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you stated that to be realized doesn't mean that you are a loving, compassionate person, that you could be a womanizing drug addict or even a serial killer.

The Buddha taught that to realize enlightenment, a person must develop two qualities: wisdom and compassion.

Offline Rochig

  • Member
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Here we gooooo.....
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2015, 07:49:33 pm »
The Buddha also said that if any of his teachings makes no sense to you, don't follow them.

You're living in a world of duality if you believe in good and bad, right and wrong. We strive for the good and push away the bad. If we just take what arises without labeling it, we'd all be in a much better place.

The Buddha created a model for people to follow on the path on enlightenment. There had to be some structure and thus theres an outlined system to help us.

But at some point, you realize the unnecessity of the system itself and it's contradictions.

Teaching people about "right speech" etc is anything but productive. You're reinforcing that there is a right and wrong way to do things. And until you realize there is no right or wrong way, you will continue to suffer.

When I took my precepts, my teacher told me just to be aware of when I break them. That's all.

But a good Buddhist will tell you they don't even believe in Buddhism - there is no Buddhism- it's just a concept.

Offline Dharmakara

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4230
    • View Profile
Re: Here we gooooo.....
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2015, 08:18:49 pm »
The Buddha spoke on the topic of unrighteous conduct --- to quote Professor Christopher Gowans, from the Department of Philosophy at Fordham University, these are: killing, taking what is not given, misconduct in sensual pleasure, speaking falsehoods, speaking maliciously, speaking harshly, speaking uselessly, being covetous, being hateful and having wrong views, where abstaining from these is said to be "conduct in accordance with the Dhamma, righteous conduct" (MN I 285-8).

Quote
The term 'Dhamma' has different meanings in Buddhist thought. But one of them is "the law of the universe" (Gombrich 2009: xii). In the Pali Canon, we are told that in his enlightenment experience the Buddha discovered the Dhamma (see MN 1 167), and he urged his followers to take refuge in it (see DN 11 100). All this might be taken to suggest that the moral precepts above are presented as objective moral truths in the sense of being laws of the universe. According to the Theravada scholar Phra Prayudh Payutto, the moral precepts taught by the Buddha are "objective principles established in accordance with natural law" (Payutto 1995: 249; see also Keown 2001: 20).

Buddhist Moral Philosophy: An Introduction
Christopher W. Gowans / Routledge (2014)
p. 169

Offline Rochig

  • Member
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Here we gooooo.....
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2015, 08:43:47 pm »
I understand this. But again, the Buddha said not to listen to something he says just because he said it. Find the truth for yourself. But I still know that one is living in the realm of duality if one is still differentiating or pretending to know what is righteous or not righteous; what is good and what is bad. You're making distinctions and setting reference points, which there are none of in Buddhism, when fully understood.

Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche was the best teacher of this in by which the way he lived his lifestyle. It's completely juxtaposed with Buddhist philosophy. And that in itself is an invaluable teaching. How could a monk possibly act and live like that?

Realization doesn't necessarily come in the form of a monk in a robe that loves everything and everyone and only does "good" things. That's a preconceived notion, merely a concept of the layman's mind.

Realization can come in many infinite forms.

Offline Dharmakara

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4230
    • View Profile
Re: Here we gooooo.....
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2015, 11:00:32 pm »
You're making distinctions and setting reference points, which there are none of in Buddhism, when fully understood.

Actually you're mistaken in that regard, that I'm making distinctions, setting reference points, ect. --- I've been approaching this topic strictly from within the application and practice of virtue, rather than judging right or wrong behavior on the basis of reason and what people should or should not do.

Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche was the best teacher of this in by which the way he lived his lifestyle. It's completely juxtaposed with Buddhist philosophy. And that in itself is an invaluable teaching.

Yes, that's true, it certainly could be a valuable teaching, but let's not lose track of the fact that it could also be the equivalent of handing a loaded gun to a child, so to speak --- as you stated yourself, everyone's "knowing" (and/or understanding?) is not the same.

How could a monk possibly act and live like that?

Discipline is for the sake of restraint,
restraint for the sake of freedom from remorse,
freedom from remorse for the sake of joy,
joy for the sake of rapture,
rapture for the sake of tranquillity,
tranquillity for the sake of pleasure,
pleasure for the sake of concentration,
concentration for the sake of knowledge
and vision of things as they are,
knowledge and vision of things as they are
for the sake of disenchantment,
disenchantment for the sake of release,
release for the sake of knowledge and vision of release,
knowledge and vision of release
for the sake of total unbinding without clinging.

 


SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal