Author Topic: Urgent help needed please! Buddhist neighbours.  (Read 974 times)

Offline understander

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Urgent help needed please! Buddhist neighbours.
« on: February 11, 2018, 02:28:19 am »
Hello all!

I have stumbled upon this forum after conducting many fruitless internet searches and I'm hoping you can help me by answering a few questions. My neighbours are Buddhists; they're a couple in their late 50s who live in a bedsit in the same building as me.

I have had great difficulty since they moved in as they cook every other morning between the hours of 4.30 to 6AM and the noise and smell wakes me up. Their kitchen is next to my living room and below my bedroom, so there's no escape.

When I politely commented that their early morning cooking was waking me up, they told me they have to cook a lot of food for the people at their Temple. Then they went inside and closed the door. The second time I spoke to them, by now at my wit's end with being woken up 3 to 4 times a week, they became verbally abusive and told me repeatedly to 'Go to hell' and that I needed to see a psychiatrist (!)

I have spoken with their landlord who has confirmed that they are not supposed to be cooking on such a grand scale nor at anti social times but he says there is nothing he can do without proof.

I was hoping to appeal to their good nature but obviously this was unsuccesful and now the noise is even worse.

So, here are my questions...

Is it normal practice to cook so early for people at the Temple? If so, are there special days when food is available and do only specific people tend to do all or most of the cooking?

Also, I'm struggling to marry what (little) I understand about Buddhist beliefs with their verbally agressive reaction. Please help me to see things from their point of view so I know how to approach them a third time. I'm utterly miserable with the lack of sleep and my flat smells - constantly - of cooking oil!

Many, many thanks in advance.

« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 02:38:58 am by understander »

Offline IdleChater

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Re: Urgent help needed please! Buddhist neighbours.
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2018, 06:04:47 am »
Hello all!

I have stumbled upon this forum after conducting many fruitless internet searches and I'm hoping you can help me by answering a few questions. My neighbours are Buddhists; they're a couple in their late 50s who live in a bedsit in the same building as me.

I have had great difficulty since they moved in as they cook every other morning between the hours of 4.30 to 6AM and the noise and smell wakes me up. Their kitchen is next to my living room and below my bedroom, so there's no escape.

When I politely commented that their early morning cooking was waking me up, they told me they have to cook a lot of food for the people at their Temple. Then they went inside and closed the door. The second time I spoke to them, by now at my wit's end with being woken up 3 to 4 times a week, they became verbally abusive and told me repeatedly to 'Go to hell' and that I needed to see a psychiatrist (!)

I have spoken with their landlord who has confirmed that they are not supposed to be cooking on such a grand scale nor at anti social times but he says there is nothing he can do without proof.

I was hoping to appeal to their good nature but obviously this was unsuccesful and now the noise is even worse.

So, here are my questions...

Is it normal practice to cook so early for people at the Temple? If so, are there special days when food is available and do only specific people tend to do all or most of the cooking?

Also, I'm struggling to marry what (little) I understand about Buddhist beliefs with their verbally agressive reaction. Please help me to see things from their point of view so I know how to approach them a third time. I'm utterly miserable with the lack of sleep and my flat smells - constantly - of cooking oil!

Many, many thanks in advance.

Sadly, the  Buddha gave no direct teachings on how to deal with problem neighbors.

Some might offer that the irritation is in your mind, conditioned and therefore without yourself.

Others may say for you to let go of the irritation and go back to your meditation.

I know, none of that is particularly satisfying with regards to your problem.

The best advice  I can give,  is if your landlord is unwilling to help right now, work towards getting them evicted or you moved into another flat.

Offline understander

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Re: Urgent help needed please! Buddhist neighbours.
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2018, 07:47:39 am »
Thank you IdleChater. That's interesting as the neighbours have denied they're doing anything wrong. They have said they see no problem in waking people up at 4.30 in the morning and that it's me who has the problem as I am the one being woken up.

I find this very difficult to get my head around. Does it therefore follow that anti-social or even unlawful behaviour is permitted as it is not the perpetrator who is doing wrong but the victim as they believe wrong has been done unto them? This is all very confusing and makes no sense to me. I can't understand how my neighbours' belief system can so easily shift the 'blame' to me.

I am moving out but it's a last resort. Selling up and moving away!

Offline Ron-the-Elder

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Re: Urgent help needed please! Buddhist neighbours.
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2018, 11:38:57 am »
Hi, understander.

Sorry for your difficulty with your neighbors. :smack:

As Idle suggested, contact the landlord and complain.  Point out to him/her that the insulation in his/her floors is insufficient to prevent noise transmission.  Also, point out to him/her that the exhaust over the stove needs to be improved or installed so as to control the emissions from cooking food.

This is neither your problem, nor you neighbors.  Their "religion" nor "practice" of Buddhism has any connection to the issue other than they are cooking for members of their temple.  Their response is just indicative of rude and unkind behavior.

My truly serious suggestion is for you to begin looking elsewhere for an apartment / home and letting your landlord know that you will be doing-so forthwith.

May mental equanimity , compassion and tolerance be forthcoming to all affected.

Ron
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

Offline understander

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Re: Urgent help needed please! Buddhist neighbours.
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2018, 12:37:49 pm »
Thank you. Yes, it's a shame I'm going to have to leave. I lived here for eight years, they, only one. I'll be losing money selling now but I really have no choice. Thing is when they moved in they went to great lengths to tell me and the other neighbours that they were 'mild mannered' before saying 'You won't have any problems with us.'

Offline Anemephistus

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Re: Urgent help needed please! Buddhist neighbours.
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2018, 05:35:10 pm »
I had a neighbor once who accused me of keeping him awake on purpose because we were constantly banging on the walls at night he said. It did in fact seem strange and unbalanced from our perspective, that he thought it was on purpose or something. After thinking on it for awhile, and since I did keep night hours because I worked in the evenings, I got up early one day and i invited him over for coffee. We spoke and I asked him about what he had been hearing, and then I went into his apartment and had my wife open and close a few doors in the bathroom.

As it turned out, the cabinets were butted up against the drywall and the noise was pretty impressive. The medicine chest was very loud when we opened and closed it, it sounded like banging, and it was in his bedroom. Together we got a hold of the landlords and showed them the problem and they worked out some rubber bumpers and silicone sealants which helped a lot.   

Perhaps, and I can't say for sure, but perhaps talking calmly on a day where this has not been an issue, inviting them over to hear the noises, and asking if they would consider working with you to get the landlord to consider a better hood and some insulation so everyone can be happier may be a path? Failing that making a recording with the sound if it is that loud for your landlord so that you can show the landlord the problem? Eight years is awhile, and rude people come from everywhere, this is not a Buddhist thing so much as an inconsiderate thing, but you shouldn't have to just move if this is an issue being created by others. 

Offline Serenity.Seeker

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Don't move yet; try this.
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2018, 10:02:15 am »
 :r4wheel:  I perceive a very practical answer to your problem, if it's possible.

Ask your neighbors what time the food must be ready by, and ask if it could be prepared mostly in advance, at such an hour when you are not trying to have quiet, and then just warmed up later as needed.  As for the smell, many foods are available without oil, and are healthier.  This may be a harder sell, and I suggest introduce one remedy at a time.  First, let them change the time they prepare the food.  Then, suggest they prepare less oily food.  Or, if they appear truly receptive, you might introduce both ideas at once, but only mention the oiliness once they have agreed to change the time they prepare the foods.  Show them gratitude, and don't just pile on the demands.  Yet, once they have said yes to the first, they will be receptive to say yes to the second.  If you feel a future receptivity, or yes, yes do ask then.  Not if you feel a no coming or if the conversation feels closed.  The benefits to asking soon are that you will not experience further annoyance to itch your mind and cause damage to your relationship with your neighbors.  If they agree to change the time but not the less oil, you might want to put it off until the future.  Oh, but there's another answer!!  Lysol makes a spray that cleans up odors and leaves no after-smell, or a light pleasant one, and there may be other brands of air deodorizers as well that may be employed.  Burning incense (the computer to the right of me said Violet on the screen as I typed incense) is a pleasant habit that might come your way as a result of this encounter.

I would very strongly discourage the use of a microwave to re-heat the food, for the reasons in the following link: 

Beyond the practical answer is something which really makes me Grin Big.

It's the Serendipity of it all.  What a story you will have to recount to your future friends, family, and others when events evolve as they may.

Are you Christian?  This is God smiling down on you (so to speak) showing you what He wants next for you in your life.  People who believe in signs from Deity surely can see it.  Destiny!  Kismet!  Moira!  Fate.  The Higher Power has put Buddhists in your path and even given you an unavoidable excuse to meet them.

What happens next is up to you.  Plant the right seeds, in the right spots, and feed and water them well, and sure enough, a good harvest is yours.  Plant bitterness and discord and this unskillful action will bring you bitter fruits.

I can envision you nurturing friendship with your Buddhist neighbors, if this is what is to be.  Maybe you're supposed to get invited to a function, where you will meet others, who will be beneficial to you.  Maybe you will encounter a teacher, a partner, a friend.  You're already on a Buddhist Forum.  It's already happening.  Cause engenders effect.  Kamma.

Read about Kamma as one of the first things you do, Kamma and Metta.  These are key.

Relax, have fun, don't worry too much.  If you study for the test, you'll pass.

I'm seeing this:  Things won't just evolve as they may, they'll evolve as they ought!

Let's put this one in the Prayer Circle, guys.

Lovya.  Khira.  (*Serenity*)   :anjali:


Must Maintain Metta Mind -- MMMM

Offline Serenity.Seeker

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Re: Urgent help needed please! Buddhist neighbours.
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2018, 10:19:59 am »
Never mind about microwaved food being bad for you.  It's actually not, according to two articles I read when I googled (with Google) Microwaved Foods Bad.  One was from Legion Athletics and one was from Dr. Oz.  Innnteresting.  Oz said by reducing cooking time microwaved foods may preserve More nutrients.  I am edified.   :)
Must Maintain Metta Mind -- MMMM

Offline PinkJasperCat

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Re: Urgent help needed please! Buddhist neighbours.
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2018, 06:44:34 pm »
I know a little about renters rights in the USA. Reasonable noise, like getting out of bed, cooking, wiping your bum, talking, etc.......are all within "reasonable noise" boundaries. Meaning, you can do these things 24/7, 7 days a week. I know their rights, and at this point you or the landlord can be pushing the boundaries of harassment and or discrimination.

I know there are some weird ones, even in this community, lol, but they have rights too. There are good and bad people in all walks of life; religions, genders, races, etc. Not that noise makes one a "bad person", but Im just saying loud people come in ALL walks of life. I am not going to give them a pass either on this, lol, as I dont know the real extent of the noise, but you do have to contact the authorities, and THEY decide. Not you, not the landlord. At this point, its you two harrasing them. It dosent look very good, does it?? Not on a resume. lol :)

Is it a "block party" a rave party up in there?? By all means call the authorities. lol :)

Of course, if you live in a different country, those laws will be different. Sometimes in the USA, they differ by state as well.

« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 06:54:39 pm by PinkJasperCat »

Offline Serenity.Seeker

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Re: Urgent help needed please! Buddhist neighbours.
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2018, 01:52:39 pm »
oh Dear FRIEND!!!  Please do tell if you're still around.  Have you moved already? Are we too LATE?

say a boo and tell us?

Here are my computer check marks:  My new name is Serenity/Sardonicus, this is the first place I wrote it.  If you write it someplace else before me, you will be in violation of Honor Code.  There are so many places you can write it.  I intend to write mine on Gmail.  If there's a Serenity.Sardonicus on Gmail before me with no numbers and it is not me, wish it well, for imitation is the cincerest form of flattery.

with that in mind, I confess I was an absentee landlord on several Yahoo clubs, and I detest this.  I lost my Passcode.  and I'm not exactly Tech-Savvy.  Enterprising Entrepreneurs rated Entrepreneur on the C-Far (The old C-Far, the um, Career-fitter test, um, )) are, um, um,, good starter-uppers, excellent people=persons, good with ideas, excellent indeed, but no sense of follow-through whatsoever, and hence in want of a team.

Not Sardonicus was I,, but another silly name.  I did it because i didn't have an easy-to break heart, but one built of pretty Sardonyx. I am so ashamed a saying that Rock and Roll, i meant old-school CLASSIC rock.  and GOOD drugs, like i need a new drug, one that doesn't make me shrug, that doesn't make me clank my head, one that doesn't steal too much ...

does not steal.  does not kill.  good thing i took my bodhisattva vows first, some lifetimes ago.  lucky for me, beyond that i will death before dishonor, and not a death with dishonor may i take.  oh sure, i even TOOK those?

fuzzy these memories.  i can call upon Mnemosyne, the silent muse.

i can amuse myself the way i was. and the way i am now.  gosh i sure have grown.  take that, you silly war wound, take that.
Must Maintain Metta Mind -- MMMM

Offline Serenity.Seeker

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Re: Urgent help needed please! Buddhist neighbours.
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2018, 02:16:56 pm »
go it without saying, Sardonicus Itself, um, would not quite fit me, and Serenity.Sardonicus with ANY number, wuld still be a one to fit me, um,

i'd be right straight honest and straight to the point.  i am insecure about my identity.  i've fabricated so many names, in that i manufactured them, means made them by hand, manus.

i make so many names a millisecond you'd think that i was a computer, and you'd only be partially wrong.  all nervous systems are bio-computers, and programmed well can be a Geist-Send.

i give over Sardonicus to anyone who honestly feels they deserve the name.  do you go to Dictionary.com and see what it means and see that antonyms has it like four or five, one being:  NICE!  and like 50 synonyms, which just goes to show you the geist of our world, and what needs us now is something to right our place in it.  As buddhists.  and to take a great examen to th Necronomicon, and these endeavors, and anything that pops up as an Anton.

Here's a great way to find missing objects that really works:  Tony Tony turn around.  What was lost will now be found.  Thanks, St. Tony!

Gjeesh I LOVE you guyss.

ss for the s sound as opposed to the z.

------------ BY zipporah, by zed, by zankush.  thisters three.  ask which movies i've watched today.  by the gods it's too easy!

sound off.  you sound too manic.  Relax!!  it's only enthux. enthusiasm.  i'm up for the challenge.  i'll breathe myself up to Serenity.  *SERENITY* shall ALWAYS be my name.

there are those that seek to keep me at What You Say ... um, well, this man Compthing, for instance, is ... well he needs an extra byte of cracker ... oh no no no.  do not tempt.  that is the one i keep forgetting, Geist Forgive me.  Do Not Tempt.  It's a butt's Fandango.  I tempt them.  To CRACK.  some yung at harrt do nothing else for funnnn.  we cannot disencorridge them easely.  it's sic -- please don't just do as the dog does when he licks his crotch, because he CAN.  i entreat thee.

if you find a salty metallic taste, is it blood?  are all girls from hereon out tempted to be MoneyPenny?  Oh god what a great NAME!!!

I'm tempted to be PennyRoyal because Penny-royal melts styrofoam, and we can funnel it in long chutes, into a trough, and then re-mold it, to recycle the styro-foam.  do i ask for a patent, pending?  NO.  so what.

If you helped bake the bread, feel free to take a piece? Something like that.  Fer So.  "Ah So!"  Means so many things.

I like a Fu Manchu Mustache.  Ain't no criminal.  Ain't some sort of villain.  Like the look.   :fu:  Aham Brahmasmi!    :anjali:
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Re: Urgent help needed please! Buddhist neighbours.
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2018, 02:21:13 pm »
 :dharma: :buddha: :buddha2: :om:upthrouugh the LOOOOOONG DIVIDE :om: :) :wink1: :D :teehee:
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Offline Serenity.Seeker

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Re: Urgent help needed please! Buddhist neighbours.
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2018, 07:58:20 pm »
I am serving a dana meal to the monks tomorrow. Because it is a two hour drive, I cook the food the night before, and heat it up when I get to the hermitage. I made vegetarian tacos. I put some frozen falafel balls into the microwave to defrost them. When I opened the microwave door a couple of minutes later... The plastic container had melted, and the falafel balls had become rock hard.


I hav delivered this quote across forums (sub-Forum really, but a forum in itself) to introduce someone with some experience with cooking food ahead of time, a humorous story.  Let's see if it will let me deliver the quote.  Thanks ahead of time, Monkey Mind.  How do I cue Monkey Mind that he is being quoted?  Or does it automatically do that?  And if so, how?  Oh I almost can remember.  He was quote-ing in Everyday Life.
Must Maintain Metta Mind -- MMMM

Offline Lotusmile

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Re: Urgent help needed please! Buddhist neighbours.
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2018, 10:54:42 pm »
Hello all!

I have stumbled upon this forum after conducting many fruitless internet searches and I'm hoping you can help me by answering a few questions. My neighbours are Buddhists; they're a couple in their late 50s who live in a bedsit in the same building as me.

I have had great difficulty since they moved in as they cook every other morning between the hours of 4.30 to 6AM and the noise and smell wakes me up. Their kitchen is next to my living room and below my bedroom, so there's no escape.

When I politely commented that their early morning cooking was waking me up, they told me they have to cook a lot of food for the people at their Temple. Then they went inside and closed the door. The second time I spoke to them, by now at my wit's end with being woken up 3 to 4 times a week, they became verbally abusive and told me repeatedly to 'Go to hell' and that I needed to see a psychiatrist (!)

I have spoken with their landlord who has confirmed that they are not supposed to be cooking on such a grand scale nor at anti social times but he says there is nothing he can do without proof.

I was hoping to appeal to their good nature but obviously this was unsuccesful and now the noise is even worse.

So, here are my questions...

Is it normal practice to cook so early for people at the Temple? If so, are there special days when food is available and do only specific people tend to do all or most of the cooking?

Also, I'm struggling to marry what (little) I understand about Buddhist beliefs with their verbally agressive reaction. Please help me to see things from their point of view so I know how to approach them a third time. I'm utterly miserable with the lack of sleep and my flat smells - constantly - of cooking oil!

Many, many thanks in advance.
Good Buddhist would not ask you to go hell but to paradise instead.
This problem is senses data of both your neighbour and you; the noses, ears and body actions on cooking. Their cooking should be gentle enough to reduce heavy noises.
What you may like to try before your senses data become completely harmony and peace, is to install sound proof wall sheet or cushion that absorb and prevent noises from outside, and also to air condition your house.

 


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