Karma Kamstang Ngondro Mandala Offering pic

[rabten]

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for a pic to aid in visualisation whilst practicing the Mandala Offering element in the Karma Kamstang Ngondro practice.

Any colour pics would be appreciated.

Rabten

[santamonicacj]

Do you mean pics of the mandala or pics (that which is offered) of the Refuge Tree (the recipients of the offerings) ?

[rabten]

Hi santamonicacj,

Thanks for your reply. I would love to see pics of both, but especially a colour pic of the offering itself (mt meru, the four continents with their respective islands, etc...)

Rabten.

[santamonicacj]

Thanks for your reply. I would love to see pics of both, but especially a colour pic of the offering itself (mt meru, the four continents with their respective islands, etc...)

I did a Google images search and came up with something from a website called "rigpawiki.org". Here is the link:

htthttp://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Thirty-seven_Point_Mandala_Offering

The field of merit is the same as the Refuge Tree I believe, but with more buddhas and bodhisattvas in the sky. I think.

Anyway here is the Refuge Tree I use.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://users.iafrica.com/b/bs/bscases/refugetree/images/ngondropainting.jpg&imgrefurl=http://users.iafrica.com/b/bs/bscases/refugetree/refugetree.htm&usg=__o2YgzCk-cpzeT5yG0JBNYHW3XiM=&h=1135&w=800&sz=262&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=zvzvP0vdjtPlzM:&tbnh=167&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3DKarma%2BKagyu%2BRefuge%2BTree%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1227%26bih%3D647%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=433&vpy=65&dur=4273&hovh=268&hovw=188&tx=97&ty=121&ei=c__pTPvICZC8sQPSlu2xCw&oei=c__pTPvICZC8sQPSlu2xCw&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0

Actually I take it back. I don't use that one anymore in my practice. I use something much simpler with my own lama as the main figure. But that is the one used widely on shrines throughout the Karma Kamstang centers.

[rabten]

Thank you so much santamonicacj for your effort..

I understood that for Mandala Offering in ngondro you visualise the refuge 'tree', but ontop of a temple roof. and instead of the gurus being kinda bunched up together, they are all in one straight line. I'm not sure if this is the traditional visualisation for this practice, but just thought i'd mention it. Maybe others can clarify for us.

The thirty-seven point mandala image is exactly what i was after.

Thank you very much!!!

Rabten

[santamonicacj]

I understood that for Mandala Offering in ngondro you visualise the refuge 'tree', but ontop of a temple roof. and instead of the gurus being kinda bunched up together, they are all in one straight line. I'm not sure if this is the traditional visualisation for this practice, but just thought i'd mention it. Maybe others can clarify for us.

You have made me re-read Kalu R.'s instructions in his book "Gem Ornament". It says that the Refuge Tree is inside a temple/mandala. You should know that when you see a mandala painting that it is a depiction of a 3 dimensional building. It has the information of both the floor plan and elevation/side view in it.

I think (not sure) the Refuge Tree can have the lineage lamas stacked up on top of each other like coins as an alternative arrangement in both the Refuge and Mandala practices. They probably did that early on (my assumption only), then too many generations of lamas made that iconographically awkward.

[GoGet]

Thanks for your reply. I would love to see pics of both, but especially a colour pic of the offering itself (mt meru, the four continents with their respective islands, etc...)

I did a Google images search and came up with something from a website called "rigpawiki.org". Here is the link:

htthttp://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Thirty-seven_Point_Mandala_Offering

The field of merit is the same as the Refuge Tree I believe, but with more buddhas and bodhisattvas in the sky. I think.

Anyway here is the Refuge Tree I use.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://users.iafrica.com/b/bs/bscases/refugetree/images/ngondropainting.jpg&imgrefurl=http://users.iafrica.com/b/bs/bscases/refugetree/refugetree.htm&usg=__o2YgzCk-cpzeT5yG0JBNYHW3XiM=&h=1135&w=800&sz=262&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=zvzvP0vdjtPlzM:&tbnh=167&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3DKarma%2BKagyu%2BRefuge%2BTree%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1227%26bih%3D647%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=433&vpy=65&dur=4273&hovh=268&hovw=188&tx=97&ty=121&ei=c__pTPvICZC8sQPSlu2xCw&oei=c__pTPvICZC8sQPSlu2xCw&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0

Actually I take it back. I don't use that one anymore in my practice. I use something much simpler with my own lama as the main figure. But that is the one used widely on shrines throughout the Karma Kamstang centers.

That's the refuge I use.  It's a traditional rendering and matches the Ngondro liturgy well, with Vajradhara, the Kagyu lamas, yidams, Buddhas of the 10 directions & three tomes, protectors, etc.

As far as a mandala offering visualization aid goes, that's something you might take up with your guru.  If you're doing Ngondro practice and have gotten to the mandala offering part, it would be best to consult with him/her on how to procede.

You are doing this under your Lama's guidance, right?