Author Topic: Input for Bibliography  (Read 3794 times)

Offline zerwe

  • Member
  • Posts: 359
    • View Profile
Re: Input for Bibliography
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2011, 07:59:09 pm »
Here is the review from Snow Lion. I have read some of the book, Karl's writing is extremely clear and concise.
He was recently made Khenpo, one of the first Westerner's to be so honored

In the Table of Contents it says it has, "Further chapters are devoted to the Autonomist-Consequentialist distinction."
I haven't even heard of that!


I believe that this is the Svatantrika vs. Prasangika debate. Argumentation that makes assertions about the ultimate by way of the conventional (autonomous) vs. pointing out the fallacies (consequences) of such argumentation/ obstaining from making such assertions (prasangika).

From what I have learned this is in some ways moot as elements of both Svatantrika and Prasangika are extant in many modern schools.

Shaun :namaste:

Offline Samadhi

  • Member
  • Posts: 59
    • View Profile
Re: Input for Bibliography
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2011, 08:05:46 pm »
Thanks for all the responses!!

Well, it seems the current area of burgeoning scholarship is:

1- Prasangika vs Svatantrika within the Buddhist community.

2 - Western Permutations of Madhyamaka- Wittgenstein and Pyrrhonism.

3 - Phenomenology/Deconstruction and Dharmadatu

There are some other loose ends that I can work with too... for example, Sextus Empiricus and Nagarjuna were both alive at the same time and both make use of the 4fold negation.  Likewise Pyrrho and the Shakyumuni Buddha were alive at the same time and both purported selflessness of self and phenomenon.  But, this is more historical.... I lean toward philology and philosophy.

What is truly interesting is that the eastern view has not changed very much whereas western thinking (from about Thales, Heraclitus, Anaximander, Pyrrho) has undergone a circular pattern.  Beginning after these early greeks "western thought" has undergone anthropomorphism- attaching subjectivity to metaphysics- beginning with Plato and ending with Hegel or Nietzsche.  Wittgenstein provided a resurgence of selflessness then Heidegger and Derrida (among others) have finalized the completion of the circle of thought... reintegrating itself once more with Buddhist thought (unbenounced to them :) )... specifically madhyamaka and mahayana philosophy.  This is my true area of interest... but will require my 2 MA papers to get there:

1. Nietzsche and Heidegger on the Greeks
2. Madhyamaka and Mahayana as Pyrrhonism and Postmodernism


(so.. my professor... his academic mentor is Jay Garfield... translator of Mulamadhyamakakarika and Ocean of Reasoning.... yay!!)

I guess what I am looking for.... ANY advice, thoughts, etc....   and any subject of debate within the community of Tibetan Buddhists.  
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 08:07:37 pm by Samadhi »

Offline santamonicacj

  • Member
  • Posts: 2271
    • View Profile
Re: Input for Bibliography
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2011, 09:39:33 pm »
I am of the opinion that there is a great similarity between NeoPlatonism and Shentong/Yogacara Madhyamaka.

...but that's just me, and I'm just a pseudo intellectual.
Warning: I'm enough of a fundamentalist Tibet style Buddhist to believe that for the last 1,000 years Tibet has produced a handful of enlightened masters in every generation. I do not ask that YOU believe it, but it will greatly simplify conversations if you understand that about me. Thanks.

Offline Samadhi

  • Member
  • Posts: 59
    • View Profile
Re: Input for Bibliography
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2011, 09:01:19 am »
Recent scholarship has attempted to show that Pyrrho and the Buddha (living at the same time) both used a 'negative' thesis to assert selflessness of self and phenomena.  Later, it is speculated, Sextus Epiricus (cementer of Pyrrhonism) and Nagarjuna both re-arrived at the conclusion of selflessness of self and phenomena through the 3-4fold negation.  It is held that Sextus migrated east and Nagarjuna showed him how to attach a soteriological end (liberation) onto emptiness, or as Sextus says, 'suspension'.  It is moreover held (by myself and a few others) that Pyrrhonism and Madhyamaka are identical.

This is all based on circumstantial evidence.  It can neither be proven or not.

Moreover, Plato was strongly influenced by Pyrrhonism and we know that Christianity is another form of Platonism.  As a matter of fact, Blaise Pascal, George Berekley and Kierkegaard both assent to Pyrrhonism, but when it comes to a dualistic conception of 'god' they make a dogmatic leap of faith to both original sin and Christ as the redeemer.  I think the Jesuit monastic order is of the same philosophy.  Origen, founder of NeoPlatonism, was certainly deeply mystical and used Pyrrhonistic philosophy.  It might not be Buddhism perse, but to the extent that Pyrrhonism is the same as Buddhism is very similar.  So, I agree with you.  If you ever get a chance to read "The Magus of Strovolos" it is a great account of a neoplatonic 'healer' in Cyprus.  It is apparently true.

Im a pseudo intellectual as well... maybe one day Ill get there!! ;)

Offline santamonicacj

  • Member
  • Posts: 2271
    • View Profile
Re: Input for Bibliography
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2011, 12:19:36 am »


Here's another odd thought: Sartre's philosophy is all based on the idea that Mahamudra/Dzonchen is impossible.

See "Transcendence of the Ego."
Warning: I'm enough of a fundamentalist Tibet style Buddhist to believe that for the last 1,000 years Tibet has produced a handful of enlightened masters in every generation. I do not ask that YOU believe it, but it will greatly simplify conversations if you understand that about me. Thanks.

Offline Samadhi

  • Member
  • Posts: 59
    • View Profile
Re: Input for Bibliography
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2011, 12:29:02 pm »
Update:

Recently finished:

Meditation on Emptiness
Empty Words
Resurrecting Candrakirti

Just ordered off amazon and about to begin:

Pointing at the Moon
Nagarjuna's Madhyamaka - Jan Westerhoff
Svatantrika-Prasangika Distinction
Essence of other-emptiness
Yogacara Influence on mahamudra
Madmans Middle Way
Two Truths Debate - Gorampa vs Tsongkhapa
Freedom of Extremes - Gorampa vs Tsongkhapa vs Dolpopa
Uttaratantra - Maitreya
Uttaratantra - Khenchen Trangu Rinpoche
Distinguishing Phenomena and Pure Being
In Praise of Dharmadatu


So, this has been my own prescribed pedagogy/vision:

These all progress with each other, but the focus changes over time.  For example, right now I am spending 70% of my time working with Svatantrika VS. Prasangika and a general development in madhyamaka.  The remainder effort is with western analysis and rangtong vs. shentong studies.  I suspect after I have finished the book "Svatantrika Prasangika Distinction" there will be a more dramatic shift toward shentong studies and fine tuning my views on the debate outside of shentong with the two Gorampa books.  Finally there will be a final push to come to terms with Shentong with "Distinguishing Phen and Being" and "Praise of Dharmadatu".

Above is my plan.  I am going to try and have this list completed by Spring 2012.


Once more... any advice will be used and is thoroughly appreciated. 

Sarvamangalam!!

 


SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal